$85 BILLION to Ukraine and Israel

22AcaciaAve

Well-Known Member
I get where people would have a problem with spending tax payer money on causes that don't seem to provide any benefit to citizens in the US. But I've heard the argument before about spending all of this money when we have people starving here in the US. It was used to kill the last several missions of the Apollo program back in the early 70's. We can provide safety nets within reason, but there will always be winners and losers in life. Unless you want to go full socialist and everyone works for the government for the same amount of money, you will always have those who strive to get ahead, those who are happy maintaining a certain comfort level, and those who simply will be left behind.

I look at Ukraine spending as being a National Security investment. It's not an emergency, but the money and weapons we are providing to Ukraine are helping to degrade the Russian military. I'm a Reagan conservative and I'm pretty sure he would be 100% in agreement with that. Russia is our mortal enemy and cannot be trusted. Just yesterday we learned that they may be working on putting a nuclear weapon capable of destroying our satellites into orbit. The more Russian soldiers who die, the more weapons they lose, and the more money we force them to spend trying to take Ukraine......that's a good investment in my book.

It is virtually impossible to be an isolationist nation in today's world. Everyone of our adversaries sponsors proxies from all out wars to terrorist operations. Pushing back on Russia now may save us in the future. Reagan said in his farewell speech that he hoped that Gorbachev represented a new outlook from the Soviet Union, but that the "Gulag was still the Gulag." He warned we must still be skeptical of their intentions. Unfortunately, his hope did not come to fruition. Putin is every bit the old KGB snake that Nikita Kruschev was.

So I'm ok with authorizing more MILITARY aid to Ukraine. But there needs to be more scrutinization of just how this aid is being spent. The Biden administration apparently has not been very diligent in making sure that money is going to where we want it to go. That has to end.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
You truly are a dumb-dumb.
Example: If you post something on here that is one of your typical dumb-dumb statements and someone else calls you out on it... is it THEIR fault for calling you out? Or maybe.. just maybe.. it is your dumb-dumb self for posting something dumb??
We did NOT remove their "human rights." They did it to themselves when they decided to trek here and not properly attempt to enter the country. dumb-dumb!

NEXT....

Human rights are not negotiable. Trumps family separation policy was blocked by the courts. If i try to improve my life by seeking asylum in the US i don't sign up to be tortured in the process

Why would you keep asking the same question when the answer has been provided?

The get mad at me when i answer you yet again?
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
I get where people would have a problem with spending tax payer money on causes that don't seem to provide any benefit to citizens in the US. But I've heard the argument before about spending all of this money when we have people starving here in the US. It was used to kill the last several missions of the Apollo program back in the early 70's. We can provide safety nets within reason, but there will always be winners and losers in life. Unless you want to go full socialist and everyone works for the government for the same amount of money, you will always have those who strive to get ahead, those who are happy maintaining a certain comfort level, and those who simply will be left behind.

I look at Ukraine spending as being a National Security investment. It's not an emergency, but the money and weapons we are providing to Ukraine are helping to degrade the Russian military. I'm a Reagan conservative and I'm pretty sure he would be 100% in agreement with that. Russia is our mortal enemy and cannot be trusted. Just yesterday we learned that they may be working on putting a nuclear weapon capable of destroying our satellites into orbit. The more Russian soldiers who die, the more weapons they lose, and the more money we force them to spend trying to take Ukraine......that's a good investment in my book.

It is virtually impossible to be an isolationist nation in today's world. Everyone of our adversaries sponsors proxies from all out wars to terrorist operations. Pushing back on Russia now may save us in the future. Reagan said in his farewell speech that he hoped that Gorbachev represented a new outlook from the Soviet Union, but that the "Gulag was still the Gulag." He warned we must still be skeptical of their intentions. Unfortunately, his hope did not come to fruition. Putin is every bit the old KGB snake that Nikita Kruschev was.

So I'm ok with authorizing more MILITARY aid to Ukraine. But there needs to be more scrutinization of just how this aid is being spent. The Biden administration apparently has not been very diligent in making sure that money is going to where we want it to go. That has to end.

Sam Spade posted a good breakdown of where the money is going and what it is being spent on on page 3.

Otherwise i believe your post to be one of the more sensible and well informed positions posted in this entire thread.
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
Human rights are not negotiable. Trumps family separation policy was blocked by the courts. If i try to improve my life by seeking asylum in the US i don't sign up to be tortured in the process

Why would you keep asking the same question when the answer has been provided?

The get mad at me when i answer you yet again?
Agreed that human rights are non-negotiable. That was not the point you made that I am arguing.

You are trying to say that WE (the good 'ole US of A) are removing these people's human rights. And I say that you are 100% WRONG!

I am saying that, by deciding to trek thousands of miles in an attempt to enter this country illegally, they have THEMSELVES decided to put their own "human rights" in peril. WE did not remove them.

You simply cannot decide to roll the dice in a casino knowing that there is a good chance you will lose and then CRY about it when you do, in fact.. lose.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
Agreed that human rights are non-negotiable. That was not the point you made that I am arguing.

You are trying to say that WE (the good 'ole US of A) are removing these people's human rights. And I say that you are 100% WRONG!

I am saying that, by deciding to trek thousands of miles in an attempt to enter this country illegally, they have THEMSELVES decided to put their own "human rights" in peril. WE did not remove them.

You simply cannot decide to roll the dice in a casino knowing that there is a good chance you will lose and then CRY about it when you do, in fact.. lose.


The part you are wrong about is the entering illegally. They have the right to present themselves at the first land border or port to ask for asylum.

The Trump administration decide to treat them unfairly and deny their rights by separating families in the hope it would be so cruel it would deter others from coming. These are the people affected.

Family separation policy was later ruled to be illegal and stopped.

Now if you say we caught someone over the border who didnt ask for asylum with a four year old child you can separate them until it is determined they are family.


All you have to do is read and you will understand the issue clearly.

Your casino analogy is not apt as it doesn't involve anyones human rights being violated.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
When you let in refugees, they bring their problems with them.

Along with Disease, Human Trafficking, Drugs and other Crime.
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
The part you are wrong about is the entering illegally. They have the right to present themselves at the first land border or port to ask for asylum.
I think that I know where you are coming from now.

So essentially, if someone breaks into your home then, they should be thrown out and arrested. However, as long as they ring the doorbell and/or knock first, then they should 100% be entitled to the food in your fridge, sleep in your bed, and watch your TV. Got it!

What's your address again?
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
I think that I know where you are coming from now.

So essentially, if someone breaks into your home then, they should be thrown out and arrested. However, as long as they ring the doorbell and/or knock first, then they should 100% be entitled to the food in your fridge, sleep in your bed, and watch your TV. Got it!

What's your address again?


Again, you refuse to read and understand the laws of this country and then make stupid comparisons.

If you insist on comparing my house to the united states lets try this

If someone was being chased and their life threatened i would act as the US is acting and shelter them until they are safe or they are found to not be in danger and i would have them leave.


Further since you brought up the topic it should be easy for you to understand that Ashli Babbit was shot because she was trespassing in someones house by smashing a window and climbing though it while being told to stop.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
Again, you refuse to read and understand the laws of this country and then make stupid comparisons.
Congratulations.

You pegged the Irony Meter for the day.

irony-meter.gif
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
If someone was being chased and their life threatened i would act as the US is acting and shelter them until they are safe or they are found to not be in danger and i would have them leave..
Fantastic! Where do you live again? I know some people who need shelter because their life is threatened. In fact, I see them almost every day at multiple intersections around the county. Do you have enough food for them?
Further since you brought up the topic it should be easy for you to understand that Ashli Babbit was shot because she was trespassing in someones house by smashing a window and climbing though it while being told to stop.
According to YOU, if old Ashli had just knocked on the door, then she would be welcome to raid the fridge, put her feet up, and be free to roam and do whatever she pleased... AmIright??
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Further since you brought up the topic it should be easy for you to understand that Ashli Babbit was shot because she was trespassing in someones house by smashing a window and climbing though it while being told to stop.
Well according to this .gov site the Capitol is the People's House, thus it was also Ashli's house too. And the statement made by Byrd was that he was more worried about those that might follow her and that is why he shot her.
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
Fantastic! Where do you live again? I know some people who need shelter because their life is threatened. In fact, I see them almost every day at multiple intersections around the county. Do you have enough food for them?

According to YOU, if old Ashli had just knocked on the door, then she would be welcome to raid the fridge, put her feet up, and be free to roam and do whatever she pleased... AmIright??


No because her life wasn't in danger until she broke into a secure government building and kicked in a window.

You are really bad at this

Did you miss the day at school they taught about comparing and contrasting?
 

StmarysCity79

Well-Known Member
Well according to this .gov site the Capitol is the People's House, thus it was also Ashli's house too. And the statement made by Byrd was that he was more worried about those that might follow her and that is why he shot her.


So what? It doesn't mean you can kick in a window and climb through in a secure government facility while a cop tells you not to.

Yes. That is a valid reason if you have an angry mob in front of you and they are going to climb through the broken window its probably smart to shoot the first one not the last one dumbass.
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
No because her life wasn't in danger until she broke into a secure government building and kicked in a window.

You are really bad at this

Did you miss the day at school they taught about comparing and contrasting?
So... like I have said now for the 3rd time..... if she had just knocked on the door or rang the doorbell, no problems... AmIright?
And... you never responded or answered the first part of my post :coffee:
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
No because her life wasn't in danger until she broke into a secure government building and kicked in a window.
How do you know? Maybe it was. What if it was? What if she was running from an abusive partner? What if someone was running after her to harm her? What if someone in that "mob" behind her was threatening her life and her only escape was to break through that window?
Can't wait for the pretzel-logic response to that :killingme
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
So what? It doesn't mean you can kick in a window and climb through in a secure government facility while a cop tells you not to.
She came in through a shattered window beside a door, she did not shatter it, why do you keep repeating this lie?
 
Top