Anti-Choice Amendment Restricts Abortion Funding

[Larry Gude]

We'll...

No.
No.
No.
No,No,No.

6 question... 6 Answers..

...perhaps you'll excuse me for presuming your objections were based on his religion and not the issue itself.

 

[Go G-Men]

...object to orphanages that raise the child into a productive member of society who will pay back 100 fold in tax dollars over his life what it cost to get him to 18? There's over one million abortions per year in this country; there's our unskilled labor right there. So, instead of paying social services to illegals, we spend it on getting this unwanted kids into a position of being wanted and being productive citizens.

Larry,

In a perfect world that might work. But in order to have create whole sale orphanage's in this country we would have to spend billions in tax money for oversight and support each and every year.. Either way it's still tax money. Secondly... The old horror stories concerning orphanage's were not made up they were for the most part true. Do you not think this would happen today?

 

[Go G-Men]

...perhaps you'll excuse me for presuming your objections were based on his religion and not the issue itself.

Ahhh... OK. excused.. j/k

My objections are with his backhanded attempt to force his belief on young woman of Indian decent for whom he surely has done nothing else on the positive side. Honestly, if I were an American Indian I would be offended because this legislation is directed squarely at Indian people.

 

[Larry Gude]

In a perfect...

Larry,

In a perfect world that might work. But in order to have create whole sale orphanage's in this country we would have to spend billions in tax money for oversight and support each and every year.. Either way it's still tax money. Secondly... The old horror stories concerning orphanage's were not made up they were for the most part true. Do you not think this would happen today?

...world, a certain death for each fetus that undergoes one, abortion, would not be seen as favorable to some kids being hurt and/or abused in an orphanage. I would suggest there are far more decent human beings that have come from orphanages over the years than tragedy's.

 

[Christy]

Well, I kinda' get where he's coming from. It's church organizations that hold the anti abortion rally's and are really pushing anti abortion. Larry suggested orphange's instead of abortion. Why couldn't the church organizations fund them? They're the one's that are concerned about it.

But the thing is, they are already doing what he says they should be doing. They can't adopt a child as a whole, an organization can't adopt a child, but they provide the funds for unwed mothers to adopt out their kid. There is not a lack of demand for children to adopt in this country, people sit on waiting lists forever.

I personally believe that all of these sorts of things should be privately funded, but then again I feel that most of the crap funded by the government should be privately funded. :shrug:

 

[Go G-Men]

You don't cover one mistake by murdering your unborn child .... you suck it up

You pay child support for 18 yrs .......... and be as much of a father / dad as you can be ........

I got 2 too prove it ......


the best thing is to ASSUME, any act of sexual intercourse can and will result in a child being conceived and think long and hard before sticking you dick there .......

Ok... Let me translate: Abstinence is the only answer. That is living in a fantasy world. We are not puritans anymore and probably won't be in the near future..

So you are a dad of 2 children and you paid child support for 18 years? Am I reading that right or were you actually a dad and husband for those 18 years?


Bottom line is this... The guys who are the would be fathers of these children do not in most cases do the right thing.

My biggest problem about politicians trying to make a decision on abortion is this: 90% are men who cannot fathom what it's like for a 17 year old who is looking at future where she cannot go to college or have a career plus give birth to a child as a child. I am a man and as such I should only be able to advise those who are in my immediate family and I would but ultimately it would be up to my children to make the choice that is right for them and their circumstance.

 

[mAlice]

But the thing is, they are already doing what he says they should be doing. They can't adopt a child as a whole, an organization can't adopt a child, but they provide the funds for unwed mothers to adopt out their kid. There is not a lack of demand for children to adopt in this country, people sit on waiting lists forever.

I personally believe that all of these sorts of things should be privately funded, but then again I feel that most of the crap funded by the government should be privately funded. :shrug:

They can't adopt a child, but if they want to keep them all alive, they need to belly up and raise them. If abortion were banned, do you think they'd provide funds for ALL of the unwanted babies?

 

[Christy]

They can't adopt a child, but if they want to keep them all alive, they need to belly up and raise them. If abortion were banned, do you think they'd provide funds for ALL of the unwanted babies?

The issue being discussed isn't banning abortion, the argument is the government funding of it. I fully believe if we the people weren't constantly raped by the government in the form of taxes, there would be plenty of individual funds to go towards adopting out all the unwanted babies that people can't afford to abort. AND on the converse, there would be plenty of funds for people to donate to poor women to have an abortion. :shrug:

 

[Christy]

My biggest problem about politicians trying to make a decision on abortion is this: 90% are men who cannot fathom what it's like for a 17 year old who is looking at future where she cannot go to college or have a career plus give birth to a child as a child.

Are you kidding me? There are a bazillion taxpayer funded programs to put impoverished single mother's through school, they fair better than poor girls without child when it comes to benefits afforded to them. Sadly, most don't take advantage of what is available.

 

[This_person]

I can see your point... So what we should do is let all those folks out there who want Roe -v- Wade turned over adopt all these babies the minute they are born seeing as they care soooo much... I never hear that offer from the churches or right wingers who speak for the churches...

They don't want to be accountable they just want everyone to live by there gods rule..

I don't think I understand your argument - are you saying that I (or other "extremists" who think murder is wrong) should take responsibility for other people's actions? I mean, outside of a raped woman, aren't the two people that create a child responsible for that child?

As for offers from churches to run orphanages and find homes for children.... if you haven't heard of churches that do that, you lead a very sheltered life.

 

[This_person]

Ok... Let me translate: Abstinence is the only answer. That is living in a fantasy world. We are not puritans anymore and probably won't be in the near future..

I wouldn't presume to speak for someone else, but that's not what I read. I believe personal responsibility is the only answer. Abstinence works, there can be no doubt about that. But, when people fail to follow abstinence, then they need to be responsible for their actions. Murder is not a viable choice.

Bottom line is this... The guys who are the would be fathers of these children do not in most cases do the right thing.

Again, that doesn't make murder the "right" thing. And, then to ask ME to pay for murder - well, that's just incredible!

My biggest problem about politicians trying to make a decision on abortion is this: 90% are men who cannot fathom what it's like for a 17 year old who is looking at future where she cannot go to college or have a career plus give birth to a child as a child.

As mAlice correctly states, men are equally responsible for the raising of the child as women. Suggesting a man cannot understand what it's like to be responsible for a child, and what that may mean to someone's life plan is just idiotic. Every parent faces those issues, men and women alike.

I am a man and as such I should only be able to advise those who are in my immediate family and I would but ultimately it would be up to my children to make the choice that is right for them and their circumstance.

I fully agree that adults make their own choices. Killing is not a viable choice for anyone, and should not be a legal choice for anyone. The choice is in getting pregnant, not in whether to kill another human being or not. Once someone becomes a parent to be (mother and father), there are choices like being hands on parents together, raising the child with support from extended family, allowing the child to be raised by another family (allowing it to be adopted). How each parent makes those choices and lives with them is up to them. Killing is not a choice.

 

[RadioPatrol]

Ok... Let me translate: Abstinence is the only answer. That is living in a fantasy world. We are not puritans anymore and probably won't be in the near future..

So you are a dad of 2 children and you paid child support for 18 years? Am I reading that right or were you actually a dad and husband for those 18 years?


Bottom line is this... The guys who are the would be fathers of these children do not in most cases do the right thing.

My biggest problem about politicians trying to make a decision on abortion is this: 90% are men who cannot fathom what it's like for a 17 year old who is looking at future where she cannot go to college or have a career plus give birth to a child as a child. I am a man and as such I should only be able to advise those who are in my immediate family and I would but ultimately it would be up to my children to make the choice that is right for them and their circumstance.

Not Husband, but a father as much as I could be, I see my 13yr old every other weekend, and my 10 yr old is in Pa and I only see him on Holidays when his mother comes down to her moms in VA ....

I also paid Child Support to my ex wife until the children were 20 and 18 ....

I married the mother of my youngest ....

If I'd have only learned to keep it in my pants ...........

She should keep her knees together .............

The Effectiveness of Abstinence Education Programs in Reducing Sexual Activity Among Youth

The Silent Scandal: Promoting Teen Sex

With millions of dollars in sex-education programs at stake, it is not surprising that the groups that have previously dominated the arena have taken action to block the growing movement to abstinence-only education. Such organizations, including the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SEICUS), Planned Parenthood, and the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League (NARAL), have been prime supporters of "safe-sex" programs for youth, which entail guidance on the use of condoms and other means of contraception while giving a condescending nod to abstinence. Clearly, the caveat that says "and if you do engage in sex, this is how you should do it" substantially weakens an admonition against early non-marital sexual activity.

Not only do such programs, by their very nature, minimize the abstinence component of sex education, but many of these programs also implicitly encourage sexual activity among the youths they teach. Guidelines developed by SEICUS, for example, include teaching children aged five through eight about masturbation and teaching youths aged 9 through 12 about alternative sexual activities such as mutual masturbation, "outercourse," and oral sex. In addition, the SEICUS guidelines suggest informing youths aged 16 through 18 that sexual activity can include bathing or showering together as well as oral, vaginal, or anal intercourse, and that they can use erotic photographs, movies, or literature to enhance their sexual fantasies when alone or with a partner. Not only do such activities carry their own risks for youth, but they are also likely to increase the incidence of sexual intercourse.

WTF are we doing teaching masturbation to children 5 to 8, and mutual masturbation and oral sex to 9 to 12 yr olds

No wonder 6th grade girls are getting caught in stairs wells give blow jobs ........

Effective Abstinence Programs

Critics of abstinence education often assert that while abstinence education that exclusively promotes abstaining from premarital sex is a good idea in theory, there is no evidence that such education can actually reduce sexual activity among young people. Such criticism is erroneous. There are currently 10 scientific evaluations (described below) that demonstrate the effectiveness of abstinence programs in altering sexual behavior.18 Each of the programs evaluated is a real abstinence (or what is conventionally termed an "abstinence only") program; that is, the program does not provide contraceptives or encourage their use.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

holy hell, i'm not reading through the rest of these pages before responding (something I rarely do...I usually read the whole thing first)...Just wanted to get this out there (since mAlice knew I wouldn't be responding yesterday after I went home )

And a guy can't insist on wearing a condom? You're one of those guys that thinks it's the womans responsibility, which means you're gonna' knock one up. Stand by. Hope you have a decent savings account.

Well, vrai pretty much covered it... Sure the guy needs to take responsibility and wear a condom, but it is also the woman's responsibility to at least get in the driver seat and take some responsibility in not getting pregnant. If she doesn't want a baby, she should be using some kind of BC. What if she lets the guy be "responsible" and bring/wear his own condom...yet he was irresponsible and left it out in the heat, carried it in his wallet, and other things to deminish the quality of it? She is taking a chance and his condom could break, slip, ect. The woman needs to take control if she wants to keep from getting pregnant as well...its a two way street

But at the end of the day, the woman is the one who gets pregnant, so it is her responsibility to take precautions. Similar to looking both ways before you cross the street: it's the driver's responsibility to not run you over, but they're not going to be the ones that are injured if they hit you.

You can't count on someone else to make decisions on your behalf when so much is at stake.

...a bunch of good analogies lately. That is one of the best.

Agreed

 

[Go G-Men]

I wouldn't presume to speak for someone else, but that's not what I read. I believe personal responsibility is the only answer. Abstinence works, there can be no doubt about that. But, when people fail to follow abstinence, then they need to be responsible for their actions. Murder is not a viable choice.Again, that doesn't make murder the "right" thing. And, then to ask ME to pay for murder - well, that's just incredible!As mAlice correctly states, men are equally responsible for the raising of the child as women. Suggesting a man cannot understand what it's like to be responsible for a child, and what that may mean to someone's life plan is just idiotic. Every parent faces those issues, men and women alike.I fully agree that adults make their own choices. Killing is not a viable choice for anyone, and should not be a legal choice for anyone. The choice is in getting pregnant, not in whether to kill another human being or not. Once someone becomes a parent to be (mother and father), there are choices like being hands on parents together, raising the child with support from extended family, allowing the child to be raised by another family (allowing it to be adopted). How each parent makes those choices and lives with them is up to them. Killing is not a choice.

I read your whole post and I here is what I have to say about it. You are exactly the reason I feel so strongly about the Anti-Abortion crowd, because although you elegantly stated your case the underlying point I read was this: I don't care what your situation is or how bad off you will be, you cannot abort this child because "I" don't believe in abortion and I don't care what you believe in.

What I would suggest is for you, because you feel so strongly about it, is to go to the inner city of DC, speak to social services about adopting a baby. The fact is you won't, most won't and these kids grow up in an environment that is perpetual poverty.

Secondly, your opinion is that abortion in the first trimester is murder and there is no medical proof of that. So many people believe it to not be murder because the fetus is not viable.

 

[Go G-Men]

I don't think I understand your argument - are you saying that I (or other "extremists" who think murder is wrong) should take responsibility for other people's actions? I mean, outside of a raped woman, aren't the two people that create a child responsible for that child?

As for offers from churches to run orphanages and find homes for children.... if you haven't heard of churches that do that, you lead a very sheltered life.

I have never seen a church group outside an abotion clinic who held up a sign that says. Please let us adopt your child. No the signs are pictures of fetuses and words like "You are going to hell".. Nice christian attitude.

 

[Go G-Men]

Not Husband, but a father as much as I could be, I see my 13yr old every other weekend, and my 10 yr old is in Pa and I only see him on Holidays when his mother comes down to her moms in VA ....

I also paid Child Support to my ex wife until the children were 20 and 18 ....

I married the mother of my youngest ....

If I'd have only learned to keep it in my pants ...........

She should keep her knees together .............

The Effectiveness of Abstinence Education Programs in Reducing Sexual Activity Among Youth




WTF are we doing teaching masturbation to children 5 to 8, and mutual masturbation and oral sex to 9 to 12 yr olds

No wonder 6th grade girls are getting caught in stairs wells give blow jobs ........

Based on all the info I read above the question I have is this: How can you be certain that you weren't the potential father of an aborted fetus. Seems like the odds of that are pretty good.

 

[Lugnut]

While your issue with this is that your tax money is being spent on these abortion I assure that this is a religious issue for the majority of conservatives.

Tax issue for me as well. Frankly I don't want the government spending tax money on anything other than infrastructure, defense, and a very few other things...

 

[Go G-Men]

Tax issue for me as well. Frankly I don't want the government spending tax money on anything other than infrastructure, defense, and a very few other things...

I would be okay with that too. But it won't happen..

 

[Lugnut]

... and these kids grow up in an environment that is perpetual poverty.

And who's fault is that? The two irresponsible people perhaps?

How is their unwanted pregnancy MY responsibility?!?! Why should I have to pay to foot the bill for the carelessness of somebody else?

Oh, that's right, because I'm a working, PRODUCTIVE, responsible, member of society...

 

[MMDad]

Tax issue for me as well. Frankly I don't want the government spending tax money on anything other than infrastructure, defense, and a very few other things...

I don't believe in making abortion illegal, but I also don't think that my tax dollars should pay for the result of someone's irresponsible behavior.

Other than assisting rape victims, which is a state/local function, my tax dollars should not fund any abortions. The federal government should have nothing to do with it.

If these "reproductive rights" activists actually cared about these poor women they think they are helping, they'd be paying for the abortions instead of spending their money lobbying to get my tax dollars.