Are Catholic Beliefs and Practices Biblical?

[Radiant1]

the one I serve his penal substitutionary atonement was enough to pay for my sins, past, present and future, ... and yes I decided to take a few pot shots.

Wow, that would be like grade school all over again, ... your sin is nothing compared to what Christ has all ready forgivin of mine

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, StoneThrower. (I still think that an unfortunate username for a self-proclaimed Christian.)

So, let me get this straight. You proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior and then your'e free to sin all you want. You can throw all the stones you want and take all the pot shots you want with no repercussion because hey, you're already saved and guaranteed heaven!

If you really believe that, then why question the sins made during the Inquisition? Surely, they have been forgiven.

This folks, is ludicrous and is the error of the Protestant once saved always saved doctrine.

 

[libby]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, StoneThrower. (I still think that an unfortunate username for a self-proclaimed Christian.)

So, let me get this straight. You proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior and then your'e free to sin all you want. You can throw all the stones you want and take all the pot shots you want with no repercussion because hey, you're already saved and guaranteed heaven!

If you really believe that, then why question the sins made during the Inquisition? Surely, they have been forgiven.

This folks, is ludicrous and is the error of the Protestant once saved always saved doctrine.

Gawd, you're good!

 

[libby]

apologies

I've lost track of all of the bashers, who said what and accused Catholics of what. I do recall that someone, either Anabaptist or SeekYeFirst called on Catholics to apologies for sins of the past.

Apology by Pope John Paul II for past sins of Roman Catholics

Apology by Pope John Paul II for past sins of Roman Catholics

The History Place - Great Speeches Collection: Pope John Paul II at Israel's Holocaust Memorial

Apologies by Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A small variety of sources lest you think it's Catholic propaganda

Now you can all link us to the apologies by the Protestant communities for the errors of Bible only Christians, i.e. all Protestants, throughout history.

 

[Starman3000m]

I've lost track of all of the bashers, who said what and accused Catholics of what. I do recall that someone, either Anabaptist or SeekYeFirst called on Catholics to apologies for sins of the past.

Apology by Pope John Paul II for past sins of Roman Catholics

Apology by Pope John Paul II for past sins of Roman Catholics

The History Place - Great Speeches Collection: Pope John Paul II at Israel's Holocaust Memorial

Apologies by Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A small variety of sources lest you think it's Catholic propaganda

Now you can all link us to the apologies by the Protestant communities for the errors of Bible only Christians, i.e. all Protestants, throughout history.

Those actions were all officially sanctioned actions by the Vatican and not by independent and individual, loose cannon-type, Catholic groups. i.e. The Inquistions, persecution of Jews, the Holocaust.

And, yet, the Vatican continues apologizing and paying restitution to parishioners for the actions of its ordained (pedophile) priests that have been moved around from parish to parish for their wrongdoing. Has the Vatican ever admitted to its own prior knowledge and participation in the "cover-ups".

As far as errors committed by misguided and zealous Protestant individuals and/or groups, they have usually been publicly rebuked and ministers fired from their positions.

When have Catholics publicy rebuked the Vatican?

 

[UNA]

Exactly! So what's the problem? I never said you couldn't understand ANY of it. Again:

How about you stop selectively quoting yourself! Taken out of context, one can make anyone seem to mean just about anything!

I'll just use your most recent one:

I've said that a number of times. You don't want to follow Him, then don't expect to understand His Word.

 

[libby]

Those actions were all officially sanctioned actions by the Vatican and not by independent and individual, loose cannon-type, Catholic groups. i.e. The Inquistions, persecution of Jews, the Holocaust.

And, yet, the Vatican continues apologizing and paying restitution to parishioners for the actions of its ordained (pedophile) priests that have been moved around from parish to parish for their wrongdoing. Has the Vatican ever admitted to its own prior knowledge and participation in the "cover-ups".

As far as errors committed by misguided and zealous Protestant individuals and/or groups, they have usually been publicly rebuked and ministers fired from their positions.

When have Catholics publicy rebuked the Vatican?

I am not having a discussion with you, because you are not having a discussion with me.

 

[libby]

for any others

BBC News - Pope Benedict apologises for Irish priests' sex abuse

The Pope's Sex Abuse Apology - Newsweek

Now, SM, why don't you try to find an apology from any Protestant anywhere for his/her abuses towards children (believe it or not, such abuse does occur), abuses/discrimination towards Catholics.
Ooops, wait a minute. I'm not talking to you. Nevermind.

 

[retiredweaxman]

BBC News - Pope Benedict apologises for Irish priests' sex abuse

The Pope's Sex Abuse Apology - Newsweek

Now, SM, why don't you try to find an apology from any Protestant anywhere for his/her abuses towards children (believe it or not, such abuse does occur), abuses/discrimination towards Catholics.
Ooops, wait a minute. I'm not talking to you. Nevermind.

LIBBY - maybe this website will help your cause...848 cases vs all Protestant Ministers...just in case anyone needs to see any examples...

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

 

[Bird Dog]

LIBBY - maybe this website will help your cause...848 cases vs all Protestant Ministers...just in case anyone needs to see any examples...

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

I don't think this helps, as in two wrongs do not make a right. Sinners are in all denominations.
What is at issue is the constant using of these issues to pile on the abuse of the Catholics and our beliefs on these forums.

Not speaking for all the RC's here but this is not the way we want to debate issues, we will not stoop that low as they have. JMHO

 

[libby]

LIBBY - maybe this website will help your cause...848 cases vs all Protestant Ministers...just in case anyone needs to see any examples...

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

I appreciate it, but I agree with what BirdDog said. The idea is not minimize the crime the priests have committed, but to remind certain people here than sin is in all denominations. Certainly your link does help to prove that point, though, so thank you.

 

[Starman3000m]

BBC News - Pope Benedict apologises for Irish priests' sex abuse

The Pope's Sex Abuse Apology - Newsweek

Now, SM, why don't you try to find an apology from any Protestant anywhere for his/her abuses towards children (believe it or not, such abuse does occur), abuses/discrimination towards Catholics.
Ooops, wait a minute. I'm not talking to you. Nevermind.

As mentioned before, libby, Protestant ministers have been publicly exposed for their wrongdoing and have confessed to their sinful failures of not upholding the integrity of their ministerial office. If their affiliation was with a specific denomination, they were expelled from continuing to be associated with the denomination. i.e. Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Baker. Ted Haggart, etc. IOW: They were not moved to another location by the "church headquarters" in an effort to knowingly partake of a cover-up. just sayin'.

 

[StoneThrower]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, StoneThrower. (I still think that an unfortunate username for a self-proclaimed Christian.)

So, let me get this straight. You proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior and then your'e free to sin all you want.
.

Absolutely not anyone that would abuse grace is not a Christian! Only a heathen would want to do that. You know what Paul said about that.

Because of your coment that the RCC church never tried to keep the Bible from anyone!

[
This folks, is ludicrous and is the error of the Protestant once saved always saved doctrine.

So your an Arminian as well as a catholic?
Once saved always saved makes perfect sense if you are, and you have the fruits, and the assurance of salvation. Its Biblical to.

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand

being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Nice try at the dig IS - but like the batters in Camden Yards, you swung and missed...
In religion, a false prophet is one who falsely claims the gift of prophecy, or who uses that gift for evil ends. Often, someone who is considered a "true prophet" by some people is simultaneously considered a "false prophet" by others. The term is sometimes applied outside religion to describe someone who fervently promotes a theory that the speaker thinks is false.

Maybe a false teacher but even that's incorrect. Why?

1) I don't claim to be a prophet.
2) What I've said has already happened. It's happening daily.

Right from the Book:

21 "You may say to yourselves, How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD? If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him". (Deuteronomy 18)

So, let me get this straight. You proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior and then your'e free to sin all you want. You can throw all the stones you want and take all the pot shots you want with no repercussion because hey, you're already saved and guaranteed heaven! This folks, is ludicrous and is the error of the Protestant once saved always saved doctrine.

You might want to talk to someone who's mind & heart has been changed by the Holy Spirit. (You know, the part you conveniently leave out all the time)? They don't want to "sin all they want" as you say. OSAS works just fine because God said it does. You're soo indoctrinated in your churches doctrine that you won't allow yourself to believe in salvation by faith alone. Gotta have works to stay saved they've told you.

How about you stop selectively quoting yourself! Taken out of context, one can make anyone seem to mean just about anything!

How about you reading and understanding what I've said?

...Sinners are in all denominations.

 

[StoneThrower]

This is like dealing with the "the loose change", "911 truth" crowd, they believe what they want to believe, nature of the evidence be darned.

Have you've really read the church documents? or have you bitten off hook line and sinker for some propaganda that gives you an emotional high of righteous indignation?

Bible Quizzes


Now Catholics are Heritics because they host bingo in the church basement.

Yep your lattest Chatecism is on my book shelf, and I refer to it a fair amount.

It might also surprise you that I've been reading from My-Daily-New-Testament--Father-Stedman-1941 for the last 5 years. I like the arangement of the passages and ignore the prayers in the back of it, and have more than one Bible containing the apocrypha. It was given to my grandfather in WW II and he never read it. I've read it so much the leather covers have fallen off, all thats left is the leather on the spine. I also read the cannons of Trent which basically declared Protestan beliefs an anathema 23times. I also have a New World Translation for dealing with JW's from there own text, and the book of Mormon for talking with them.
Half my family was RC and my Dad converted to Protestanism. I wanted to know what the differance was as a kid. Lattely I have been looking at the Seventhday Adventist and their heritical teachings, who knew their a mix of Millerites and JW's.

I dont need the party line, while others play in forums, I read books.

 

[ItalianScallion]

This is like dealing with the "the loose change", "911 truth" crowd, they believe what they want to believe, nature of the evidence be darned.

Sounds soo Catholic to me...
Still waiting for your answer about the Bible...

Have you've really read the church documents?

I have, tyvm

Now Catholics are Heritics because they host bingo in the church basement.

Isn't bingo considered gambling? :shrug:

 

[Radiant1]

You might want to talk to someone who's mind & heart has been changed by the Holy Spirit. (You know, the part you conveniently leave out all the time)?

Ok, I guess that excludes StoneThrower because he's apparently not someone whose mind and heart has been changed. It would appear he thinks he can sin all he wants and will be forgiven without any form of remorse or repentence.

And, who am I to know whose mind and heart is truly changed in order for once saved always saved to be in effect? (Remember me telling you of the girl who repeatedly stole from me all the while swearing she was saved?) I will know them by their fruits, but frankly everyone sins to some degree, and sinful fruit is rancid.

And speaking of sin, I will take my own advice to Anabaptist and remove myself from this forum for a while. I've got other issues to deal with that leave me with little patience that is required here. Ya know, lest in a sweeping gesture I call all of you idiots, morons and retards.

 

[Radiant1]

Isn't bingo considered gambling? :shrug:

Gambling in and of itself isn't sinful, it only becomes so when it takes food out of the mouths of one's children, the bills don't get paid, etc. In other words, when it becomes a problem of some sort. If you have the extra cash to play Bingo, then why not have fun and donate to a worthy cause all at the same time?

 

[Mongo53]

You might want to talk to someone who's mind & heart has been changed by the Holy Spirit. (You know, the part you conveniently leave out all the time)?

Have you ever spoke to someone who's mind & heart that has been changed by the Holy Spirit? You are so full of Pride, I have my doubts?

They don't want to "sin all they want" as you say. OSAS works just fine because God said it does. You're soo indoctrinated in your churches doctrine that you won't allow yourself to believe in salvation by faith alone. Gotta have works to stay saved they've told you.

Hasn't this been explained to you already.
From Catholic Catechism:

1996: Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

Good Works are the result of Faith,

How about you reading and understanding what I've said?

Yes, indeed, how 'bout it.

Sounds soo Catholic to me...
Still waiting for your answer about the Bible...

You've had my answer, I've said nothing of the sort that you accuse me of. You've only proven you're interpretative skills are abysmally incompetent, or you are so Prideful, you would gladly practice intellectually dishonesty to maintain your emotional high of righteous indignation.

I have, tyvm

And like so many other things you fail to capture the central truths.

Isn't bingo considered gambling? :shrug:

Says the man on this very forum wagers his and others salvation on his Prideful interpretations of scriptures.

Bingo is a game, sure, like all sorts of games you can play it for monetary reward and thus it is gambling. It can be played without any reward, it can be played for prizes, that is still gambling in a way.

Churches hold raffles, lotteries, etc, even if it is just for the preacher's wife peach cobbler, is that NOT also gambling?

Its fund raising, everyone knows they are playing for fun and purposefully loosing money, as a donation for the fund raising effort.

Actually, you'll find a lot of Catholic Churches do NOT have Bingo, and many Catholics disagree with Churches playing bingo because of the message it sends. Few Catholics see Bingo for fund raising as some sort of vice or temptation that holds real dangers for any normal adjusted person, although you find some Catholics do disagree with the precedence it sets.

 

[UNA]

How about you reading and understanding what I've said?

Goooood one IS

Are you being difficult on purpose or are you really this lacking in your reading comprehension abilities? Let me put it v e r y simply for you: FIRST you said I could never understand the Bible because I'm not a follower THEN you said I could understand the Bible using other sources implying that I do not need to be a true follower in order to understand the Bible...

 

[ItalianScallion]

Ok, I guess that excludes StoneThrower because he's apparently not someone whose mind and heart has been changed. It would appear he thinks he can sin all he wants and will be forgiven without any form of remorse or repentence.

I really doubt that StoneThrower believes that. Yours is the typical response from people who won't believe & understand OSAS. No Christian believes that they can sin all they want and still get to Heaven.

And speaking of sin, I will take my own advice to Anabaptist and remove myself from this forum for a while. I've got other issues to deal with that leave me with little patience that is required here. Ya know, lest in a sweeping gesture I call all of you idiots, morons and retards.

Getting hot in here isn't it? Hurry back!

Have you ever spoke to someone who's mind & heart that has been changed by the Holy Spirit? You are so full of Pride, I have my doubts?

Sounds like that's coming from your throne...Stick to the doctrine and leave the "personals" out of here.

You've had my answer, I've said nothing of the sort that you accuse me of. You've only proven you're interpretative skills are abysmally incompetent, or you are so Prideful, you would gladly practice intellectually dishonesty to maintain your emotional high of righteous indignation. And like so many other things you fail to capture the central truths.

More like you're trying to impress people with your many words. Do you have trouble with simple straight answers? I fully understood what I read in your posts and I hear what you're defending and avoiding. It's pretty clear to me but, since you won't just come right out and say it, I didn't want to jump to any wrong conclusions, so I asked you for a simple yes or no answer: Do you take the Bible truth over every other book or teaching? (I don't recall seeing that in ANY of your posts)...

Bingo is a game, sure, like all sorts of games you can play it for monetary reward and thus it is gambling. It can be played without any reward, it can be played for prizes, that is still gambling in a way.
Churches hold raffles, lotteries, etc, even if it is just for the preacher's wife peach cobbler, is that NOT also gambling?
Its fund raising, everyone knows they are playing for fun and purposefully loosing money, as a donation for the fund raising effort.
Actually, you'll find a lot of Catholic Churches do NOT have Bingo, and many Catholics disagree with Churches playing bingo because of the message it sends. Few Catholics see Bingo for fund raising as some sort of vice or temptation that holds real dangers for any normal adjusted person, although you find some Catholics do disagree with the precedence it sets.

Nicely said. Thank you! We actually agree here. My old church asked me what I thought about Bingo in church and I told them I didn't want it used for fund raising. If we needed to do fund raisers (which we didn't), there are other ways of doing it.

Someone could offer their services for a fee (which would go to the church) or we could have yard sales to raise the money. I was even against raffles. I told the people: if someone donates something to our church, we won't raffle it off, we'll sell it and use the money for the church. That way it isn't "gambling" to anyone.

Are you being difficult on purpose or are you really this lacking in your reading comprehension abilities? Let me put it v e r y simply for you: FIRST you said I could never understand the Bible because I'm not a follower THEN you said I could understand the Bible using other sources implying that I do not need to be a true follower in order to understand the Bible...

Who's being difficult? I never said that you couldn't understand ANY of it. I said ANYONE can read it and get a lot out of it. (Did you miss that)?

Then I said: since you've chosen not to believe in this God, you wouldn't be able to see many of the other truths in it. IOW: There will be many things that you won't understand because they are hidden from your understanding. There are books out there that YOU could read and learn a lot about how to read the Bible but that would only help you a bit.