Cops In NO Confiscating Legally Owned Guns!

[Bustem' Down]

Wow, that's better than looking at porn.

 

[Larry Gude]

Not picking on you bob...

if anything should be learned from NO is this

...but I think the real lesson is do not live in a place that will isolate you, like 10 feet below sea level, surrounded by a lake, a major river and an a gulf not far away.

In this region the storm could have been worse but we would have all fared much better.

 

[Larry Gude]

The one I want...

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_sgt.htm

:woody:

 

[ylexot]

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_sgt.htm

:woody:

That's similar to mine. I have the super magnum version and put a hogue rubber overmolded stock, mag extension, tactical follower, and fiber-optic sights on it. I don't have the short barrel or nifty flashlight holder though.

 

[Larry Gude]

You better not shout...

That's similar to mine. I have the super magnum version and put a hogue rubber overmolded stock, mag extension, tactical follower, and fiber-optic sights on it. I don't have the short barrel or nifty flashlight holder though.

..you better not cry, you better not pout, I'm telling you why...

 

[2ndAmendment]

.. I told her I would use trigger locks, as well as locking up the ammo away from the guns.

No, no, no! If it is not within reach, it is useless. No trigger locks; too hard to get off. Get a small gun safe with electronic lock. Keep loaded gun in gun safe. don't need one in the chamber, but un-homed clip in gun. In an emergency (need it RIGHT NOW) it is home the clip, pull the slide, safety off, ready to rock.

 

[Bruzilla]

Mmdad... sorry for the somewhat poor advice you've been getting. I've taught personnel defense courses for the NRA and women's groups, so here's my advice. First, get yourself a .22LR rifle or pistol. This will serve as a break-in gun for you, your wife, and your kids. Ammo is cheap, really cheap, and it helps new shooters get over their two biggest anxieties - noise and recoil. See how things work out with the .22LR before you go laying out a lot of cash for something bigger. The thing that is most important for you is to de-mystify guns for your kids. After you go shooting, have them break the gun down and clean it, which gets them used to the idea that shooting isn't all fun, there's also work attached to it and most kids try to avoid cleaning-type chores whenever possible.

If things go well with the .22LR, then you can move up to a gun that's more in line with your needs. You DO NOT need an AKS, AK-47, AR-15, etc. The last thing you want to be defending your home against a late-night intruder with is a long-barelled rifle that fires a round that will penetrate multiple walls and possible escape your residence. You want a handgun that'll allow you to drop an assailant and that you won't have to worry about shots passing through the guy's body and through multiple walls and into your kid's room.

My ideal home defense gun is a Smith & Wesson Model 19 revolver with a 2" or 4" barrel. You can load these guns with light .38 Special loads, or use .357 Magnum rounds with frangible ammunition, like Glazer Safety Slugs that reduce the risk of pass throughs. A .38 Special Glazer is every bit as deadly as a .357 Magnum round, but without the moderate recoil, so I would go with that for ammo. I prefer the S&W Model 19 because they are usually very economicaly priced and there are plenty on the used market, but any medium-frame .357 Magnum revolver will do the job.

I do not recommend using a semi-auto pistol as many shooters find the safeties confusing, especially if you are an infrequent shooter in a crisis situation. The use of a revolver also eliminates the unwanted occurance of a jam that is a risk with pistols. Granted a pistol can hold more rounds than a revolver, but the vast majority of home firearm encounters do not involve prolonged shootouts... usually the attacker flees after the first shot or two is fired.

Lastly, do not try to "hide" your gun(s) away from your kids. I guarantee you that there isn't a place that you can think of to hide them that they haven't already checked out once or twice already. The reason that most kids get shot is that they easily find these "hidden" guns, and use them in the way they see them used on TV or the movies. This is why it is so important to de-mystify them and make them understand that guns are a tool and a lot of work rather than something cool and fun.

 

[itsbob]

That's similar to mine. I have the super magnum version and put a hogue rubber overmolded stock, mag extension, tactical follower, and fiber-optic sights on it. I don't have the short barrel or nifty flashlight holder though.

I'm not big on the flashlight thingy... Makes a GREAT aiming point for whoever you may be looking for.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Mmdad... sorry for the somewhat poor advice you've been getting. I've taught personnel defense courses for the NRA and women's groups, so here's my advice. First, get yourself a .22LR rifle or pistol. This will serve as a break-in gun for you, your wife, and your kids. Ammo is cheap, really cheap, and it helps new shooters get over their two biggest anxieties - noise and recoil. See how things work out with the .22LR before you go laying out a lot of cash for something bigger. The thing that is most important for you is to de-mystify guns for your kids. After you go shooting, have them break the gun down and clean it, which gets them used to the idea that shooting isn't all fun, there's also work attached to it and most kids try to avoid cleaning-type chores whenever possible.

If things go well with the .22LR, then you can move up to a gun that's more in line with your needs. You DO NOT need an AKS, AK-47, AR-15, etc. The last thing you want to be defending your home against a late-night intruder with is a long-barelled rifle that fires a round that will penetrate multiple walls and possible escape your residence. You want a handgun that'll allow you to drop an assailant and that you won't have to worry about shots passing through the guy's body and through multiple walls and into your kid's room.

My ideal home defense gun is a Smith & Wesson Model 19 revolver with a 2" or 4" barrel. You can load these guns with light .38 Special loads, or use .357 Magnum rounds with frangible ammunition, like Glazer Safety Slugs that reduce the risk of pass throughs. A .38 Special Glazer is every bit as deadly as a .357 Magnum round, but without the moderate recoil, so I would go with that for ammo. I prefer the S&W Model 19 because they are usually very economicaly priced and there are plenty on the used market, but any medium-frame .357 Magnum revolver will do the job.

I do not recommend using a semi-auto pistol as many shooters find the safeties confusing, especially if you are an infrequent shooter in a crisis situation. The use of a revolver also eliminates the unwanted occurance of a jam that is a risk with pistols. Granted a pistol can hold more rounds than a revolver, but the vast majority of home firearm encounters do not involve prolonged shootouts... usually the attacker flees after the first shot or two is fired.

Lastly, do not try to "hide" your gun(s) away from your kids. I guarantee you that there isn't a place that you can think of to hide them that they haven't already checked out once or twice already. The reason that most kids get shot is that they easily find these "hidden" guns, and use them in the way they see them used on TV or the movies. This is why it is so important to de-mystify them and make them understand that guns are a tool and a lot of work rather than something cool and fun.

Lot's of good stuff here.

I disagree on a few points, but opinions are just that. A Glock is a great non-revolver pistol and taking off the safeties (it has multiple) involve nothing more than putting your finger on the trigger; nothing complicated about that. Glocks are also always double action, too, so you don't get a long pull - short pull difference.

The frangible ammo and specialty ammo like Glazer, contrary to what is stated here, has been proven to be not as deadly. If the target puts up an arm in defense as is quite common, the frangible round or specialty ammo looses most of its energy in the arm and then has very limited penetration in the center mass of the target. This was the subject of a very extensive study using both ballistic gelatin and actual human gun shot subjects. I don't use the word victim, because they were shot, for the most part, on purpose in defense situations. Don't have the link anymore to the study, but it was really good with lots of pictures of the actual gun shots, gelatin and human.

 

[Bruzilla]

Lot's of good stuff here.

I disagree on a few points, but opinions are just that. A Glock is a great non-revolver pistol and taking off the safeties (it has multiple) involve nothing more than putting your finger on the trigger; nothing complicated about that. Glocks are also always double action, too, so you don't get a long pull - short pull difference.

The frangible ammo and specialty ammo like Glazer, contrary to what is stated here, has been proven to be not as deadly. If the target puts up an arm in defense as is quite common, the frangible round or specialty ammo looses most of its energy in the arm and then has very limited penetration in the center mass of the target.

2A, the slide safety on a Glock is one of the worst designed safeties in the business as it requires two hands to disengage unless you leave it off. In that case you run a well-documented risk of accidental discharge. The Glocks also add to the issue of recoil due to the moving mass of the slide, something else to consider when you're contemplating women shooters (I know it sounds sexist, but women don't like recoil no matter how little it is.) Again, going back to the issue that Mmdad is talking about, he's not going to be going out to the range with his family every weekend so that firing the gun becomes second nature. A revolver with a long, tight, trigger pull and no safeties is far superior in that situation to any pistol - especially a Glock.

As for ammunition, it is very unlikely that someone in their home will encounter an intruder who's determined to put up a fight or defense. There are exceptions to the rule such as home invaders and someone with a strong desire to kill you, but most burglaries don't fall into these categories. In most cases the statement "I have a gun" is enough to send criminals packing. And in the off-chance that you do encounter an intruder who puts an arm up and successfully keeps a Glazer from reaching his body, his arm isn't going to be there for the second shot as momentum and transferred energy from the bullet are going to get it out of the way. Your second shot will hit.

But overall, home defense is often a numbers game. The odds that your house will be entered by a criminal, in most areas, are pretty low. The odds that the intruder will be someone intent on harming you or your family is even lower, and the odds that the intruder will aggressively press an attack even after being confronted by an armed homeowner are lower even still. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions and they are rare. You don't need to be Dirty Harry or carry his gun to defend your home and safety, you just need to employ some good common sense and avoid the macho hype that surrounds the issue. It is far better to fire a second Glazer into a guy than to blow a hole though him and find out the bullet hit the people you were trying to protect.

 

[ylexot]

Another advantage of revolvers is simply their reliability.

As for ammo, does anybody have any experience with some of the "other" types of ammo such as Cor-bon Pow R' Ball or Federal Expanding Point FMJ? They seem like interesting ideas and I've been thinking about getting some of the Federal ammo.

 

[Sharon]

2A, the slide safety on a Glock is one of the worst designed safeties in the business as it requires two hands to disengage unless you leave it off. In that case you run a well-documented risk of accidental discharge. The Glocks also add to the issue of recoil due to the moving mass of the slide, something else to consider when you're contemplating women shooters (I know it sounds sexist, but women don't like recoil no matter how little it is.)

Glock-hater!

You are so full of yourself sometimes Bru.

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A, the slide safety on a Glock is one of the worst designed safeties in the business as it requires two hands to disengage unless you leave it off. In that case you run a well-documented risk of accidental discharge. The Glocks also add to the issue of recoil due to the moving mass of the slide, something else to consider when you're contemplating women shooters (I know it sounds sexist, but women don't like recoil no matter how little it is.) Again, going back to the issue that Mmdad is talking about, he's not going to be going out to the range with his family every weekend so that firing the gun becomes second nature. A revolver with a long, tight, trigger pull and no safeties is far superior in that situation to any pistol - especially a Glock.

As for ammunition, it is very unlikely that someone in their home will encounter an intruder who's determined to put up a fight or defense. There are exceptions to the rule such as home invaders and someone with a strong desire to kill you, but most burglaries don't fall into these categories. In most cases the statement "I have a gun" is enough to send criminals packing. And in the off-chance that you do encounter an intruder who puts an arm up and successfully keeps a Glazer from reaching his body, his arm isn't going to be there for the second shot as momentum and transferred energy from the bullet are going to get it out of the way. Your second shot will hit.

But overall, home defense is often a numbers game. The odds that your house will be entered by a criminal, in most areas, are pretty low. The odds that the intruder will be someone intent on harming you or your family is even lower, and the odds that the intruder will aggressively press an attack even after being confronted by an armed homeowner are lower even still. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions and they are rare. You don't need to be Dirty Harry or carry his gun to defend your home and safety, you just need to employ some good common sense and avoid the macho hype that surrounds the issue. It is far better to fire a second Glazer into a guy than to blow a hole though him and find out the bullet hit the people you were trying to protect.

Please show me a slide safety on a Glock. Never saw one ever on any I have ever shot, disassembled, repaired, or studied the diagrams or manuals of.

All the rest is opinion. :shrug: You have your way. I have mine. Yours works for you. Mine works for me. I will say that the F.B.I has said that wall penetration is not the primary consideration for home defense ammo; that primary penetration of the target is.

 

[AK-74me]

Mmdad... sorry for the somewhat poor advice you've been getting. I've taught personnel defense courses for the NRA and women's groups, so here's my advice. First, get yourself a .22LR rifle or pistol. This will serve as a break-in gun for you, your wife, and your kids. Ammo is cheap, really cheap, and it helps new shooters get over their two biggest anxieties - noise and recoil. See how things work out with the .22LR before you go laying out a lot of cash for something bigger. The thing that is most important for you is to de-mystify guns for your kids. After you go shooting, have them break the gun down and clean it, which gets them used to the idea that shooting isn't all fun, there's also work attached to it and most kids try to avoid cleaning-type chores whenever possible.

If things go well with the .22LR, then you can move up to a gun that's more in line with your needs. You DO NOT need an AKS, AK-47, AR-15, etc. The last thing you want to be defending your home against a late-night intruder with is a long-barelled rifle that fires a round that will penetrate multiple walls and possible escape your residence. You want a handgun that'll allow you to drop an assailant and that you won't have to worry about shots passing through the guy's body and through multiple walls and into your kid's room.

My ideal home defense gun is a Smith & Wesson Model 19 revolver with a 2" or 4" barrel. You can load these guns with light .38 Special loads, or use .357 Magnum rounds with frangible ammunition, like Glazer Safety Slugs that reduce the risk of pass throughs. A .38 Special Glazer is every bit as deadly as a .357 Magnum round, but without the moderate recoil, so I would go with that for ammo. I prefer the S&W Model 19 because they are usually very economicaly priced and there are plenty on the used market, but any medium-frame .357 Magnum revolver will do the job.

I do not recommend using a semi-auto pistol as many shooters find the safeties confusing, especially if you are an infrequent shooter in a crisis situation. The use of a revolver also eliminates the unwanted occurance of a jam that is a risk with pistols. Granted a pistol can hold more rounds than a revolver, but the vast majority of home firearm encounters do not involve prolonged shootouts... usually the attacker flees after the first shot or two is fired.

Lastly, do not try to "hide" your gun(s) away from your kids. I guarantee you that there isn't a place that you can think of to hide them that they haven't already checked out once or twice already. The reason that most kids get shot is that they easily find these "hidden" guns, and use them in the way they see them used on TV or the movies. This is why it is so important to de-mystify them and make them understand that guns are a tool and a lot of work rather than something cool and fun.

For one thing I agree, new shooters should start out with some type of .22, but he did say that he was in the service and it has just been a while since he has handled guns. I also agree with you about not hiding guns from his kids, don't treat it as it was a naughty thing.

He did say though this N.O. situation got him thinking about if the SHTF here so that means he wants something that can defend him and his family. If he had said he wanted purely something to defend against a thug breaking in during the night I would of reccomended a shot-gun loaded with #8 shot, not buck shot because of penetration issues. Why do you think that all auto-loaders are bad for new shooters? There are several auto-loading handguns out there that have no external safety and rely on a double action trigger pull to make them "safe" All the SIG line for example.

So tell me again why wouldn't you recomend a SKS or an AK for a N.O. type situation. It fires a round big enough to put person or an animal down, it is economical to buy and to shoot, simple operation, known as tough and reliable and firing under any conditions, recoil is managable by any one more then 90 lbs.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I want an M9 baretta, but that's just cause that's what I use in the military and I want to have a collection of the weapons I used. It's not really that great of a gun, just nostalgia.

 

[AK-74me]

I want to have a collection of the weapons I used.

Me too but I don't think I'll be getting a class III to get that M-249 or grenade launcher I've always wanted

 

[Bustem' Down]

Me too but I don't think I'll be getting a class III to get that M-249 or grenade launcher I've always wanted

Well, I won't be getting an M2, M-60, or the 25mm, but I would like the 9mm and an M-14. I also don't really have room for the 5-inch 54 cal gun either.

 

[2ndAmendment]

A voice of reason:
http://www.reason.com/hod/dk091005.shtml

...
The good gun-owning citizens of New Orleans and the surrounding areas ought to be thanked for helping to save some of their city after Mayor Nagin, incoherent and weeping, had fled to Baton Rouge. Yet instead these citizens are being victimized by a new round of home invasions and looting, these ones government-organized, for the purpose of firearms confiscation.

The Mayor and Governor do have the legal authority to mandate evacuation, but failure to comply is a misdemeanor; so the authority to use force to compel evacuation goes no further than the power to effect a misdemeanor arrest. The preemptive confiscation of every private firearm in the city far exceeds any reasonable attempt to carry out misdemeanor arrests for persons who disobey orders to leave.

Louisiana statutory law does allow some restrictions on firearms during extraordinary conditions. One statute says that after the Governor proclaims a state of emergency (as Governor Blanco has done), "the chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision affected by the proclamation may...promulgate orders...regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale, transport and use of firearms, other dangerous weapons and ammunition." But the statute does not, and could not, supersede the Louisiana Constitution, which declares that "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person."

The power of "regulating and controlling" is not the same as the power of "prohibiting and controlling." The emergency statute actually draws this distinction in its language, which refers to "prohibiting" price-gouging, sale of alcohol, and curfew violations, but only to "regulating and controlling" firearms. Accordingly, the police superintendent's order "prohibiting" firearms possession is beyond his lawful authority. It is an illegal order.

Last week, we saw an awful truth in New Orleans: A disaster can bring out predators ready to loot, rampage, and pillage the moment that they have the opportunity. Now we are seeing another awful truth: There is no shortage of police officers and National Guardsmen who will obey illegal orders to threaten peaceful citizens at gunpoint and confiscate their firearms.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So now the city and state "law enforcement" organizations are confiscating legal weapons and removing the people by force from their homes even if they are not flooded and have no damage. Shades of the Jewish ghettos in Nazi Germany.

Guess what. The property is now free to be looted by the "law enforcement" people. Think it won't happen? Bet you dollars to donuts it will. I don't know what the Louisiana law is regarding abandoned property, but that may not be a pretty picture either. Million dollar properties gone because they were "abandoned"? Don't know but it would not be surprising.

you are a retard, the jewish ghettos were where the Nazis put the jews, the nazis forced them out of there homes and into the ghettos.... Also there is no comparision b/c no one is being killed by the "law enforcers" - just cops doing their jobs

Duh. Ghettos - no kidding. Moving people by force out of their homes to other places of concentration. Home -> ghettos -> concentration camps || Home -> Super-Dome -> Astro-Dome. Parallel? - I think so.

Cops doing their job? Yeah. So was the Gestapo.

 

[Bruzilla]

So tell me again why wouldn't you recomend a SKS or an AK for a N.O. type situation. It fires a round big enough to put person or an animal down, it is economical to buy and to shoot, simple operation, known as tough and reliable and firing under any conditions, recoil is managable by any one more then 90 lbs.

First off they're not worth the asking prices. I have three AR-15s, one M-16A2 (legal), two L1A1s, an M-1 Garand, an M-1 Carbine, an H&K G-3, and a Spanish CETME rifle (essentially a G-3), so I'm a big fan of assault weapons, but only at the range. I've also got my eye on a 1943 production MP-40, but that one's on the Q-T as it's not quite legal. I would never try to use one for home defense, and I would never buy an AK/AKM or SKS as they are just cheap throwaway guns and certainly not worth $300+.

I also own a Beretta 92, a Beretta 96, two S&W M-19s, two Walther P-38s, one Sig P226, and I'm picking up a Llama Max II in 9MM this Thursday, so I'm also a big fan of pistols. But having taught a lot of women's defense classes, I can tell you that women prefer revolvers to the same level that men prefer pistols. The less complicated the gun is the better where women are concerned. And since Mmdad is looking for buy-in from his wife, he needs to take that into account... he can always get his own Sig or Beretta down the road.

2A, the FBI may be more concerned with penetration, but the home owner need not be. The homeowner needs a round that will disable/kill an intruder, not necessarily always kill him/her. A frangible .38spl load for a revolver, or frangible .40 S&W rounds are the way to go.

Also, there's a small sliding lever on the left side of the Glock frame that will lock the trigger.