CRE Are you ready for this?

[hotcoffee]

When people have different ideas... and they bring them up in a forum.... it's sometimes construed as arguing....

Discussions and debates are good... the country is built on them.... I am not degrading the community by any means.... but lets face it... the current fees structure is totally unfair... glad to see you agree ladyhawk....

I still think the roads is the biggest issue and everyone will still pay for the roads [even if theirs - like mine- will never be paved]. But to have to pay full HOA dues is not a necessity....

In some HOA's if they want to upgrade or add an amenity... the open a special assessment discussion... or they have a fund raiser.... if we have fund raisers... there's at least something to do...

We don't need to be paying the deductible for our employees when they go to the doctor... especially when so many of the families in this community are paying such high premiums just to have health insurance now....

We don't need to hire more security in the summer when we have been paying them all year to guard un-used amenities....

I do indeed remember all the talk about making each amenity self sustaining... why not make it a benefit to be a member rather than a drudge... know where I'm going with this?

Should we open Secret Beach? Should we advertise where all the access roads to the beaches and the lakes are so others can use them?

Let's talk about the $10 Million in real estate we own.... just how much of that is buildable? I bet if we put those lots up for sale as buildable lots, members would be happier to puchase them.... or we would even get more members.... we're already almost at build out... and we're already over crowded... why not finish it off and use the proceeds to upgrade the beaches..... maybe put in some kind of water park like Chesapeake Beach did....

We have got to stop trying to dig into the members pockets to support the admin staff.... people who don't have job security are not very willing to pay to keep others employed.

Yep... I love CRE too... I have a different view of CRE's future....

 

[ladyhawk]

List of ideas

M&O LIST
Assess Project fees
Charge Amenity User fees
Get rid of M&O Fee
Make Campgrounds Public
Make Lake Public
Make Beaches Public
Raise M&O Fee
Reduce Staff
Reduce Staff Benefits
Security Cameras
Sell Common Properties
Street Lighting
Temp Staff
Trash Removal
Walking/Jogging Paths
Water Park

ROADS LIST
Pave all roads
Get rid of STD - Raise Road fee
Raise road fee
Get rid of ALL road fees

BOARD
Change Board Officer Term Limits
Change Director Term Limits

COMMITTEES
Require Credentials
Term Limits

OTHER
Municipality
Lobby voters to local polls

Add or remove from the list, eventually we will end up with a list everyone will at least meet halfway on. Looks like I may have to submit them separately to keep things short!

Each item effects our budget in one way or another in Income and Expense..
Consider additional expenses for Higher use!
Consider Pros/Cons of each item.
Lets make sensible and responsible decisions.
Lets be serious about really trying to make the difference.
Consider this project your way to volunteer.

Once we have a list with everyones input, I will put out an update about once every two weeks (could be more or less depending on activity).

Together we will finalize the list and then will need to work on the Pros and Cons of each one with everyones input. That should be when we really look at the costs/savings of each idea.

Lets get our community moving and take it to the membership...

June

 

[punchbuggy]

What I like

I like the gardens and campgrounds!!!!!

 

[ladyhawk]

I like the gardens and campgrounds!!!!!

Noted!

I sure hope people take this seriously...

June

 

[hotcoffee]

M&O LIST
Assess Project fees
Charge Amenity User fees
Get rid of M&O Fee
Make Campgrounds Public
Make Lake Public
Make Beaches Public
Raise M&O Fee
Reduce Staff
Reduce Staff Benefits
Security Cameras
Sell Common Properties
Street Lighting
Temp Staff
Trash Removal
Walking/Jogging Paths
Water Park

ROADS LIST
Pave all roads
Get rid of STD - Raise Road fee
Raise road fee
Get rid of ALL road fees

BOARD
Change Board Officer Term Limits
Change Director Term Limits

COMMITTEES
Require Credentials
Term Limits

OTHER
Municipality
Lobby voters to local polls

Add or remove from the list, eventually we will end up with a list everyone will at least meet halfway on. Looks like I may have to submit them separately to keep things short!

Each item effects our budget in one way or another in Income and Expense..
Consider additional expenses for Higher use!
Consider Pros/Cons of each item.
Lets make sensible and responsible decisions.
Lets be serious about really trying to make the difference.
Consider this project your way to volunteer.

Once we have a list with everyones input, I will put out an update about once every two weeks (could be more or less depending on activity).

Together we will finalize the list and then will need to work on the Pros and Cons of each one with everyones input. That should be when we really look at the costs/savings of each idea.

Lets get our community moving and take it to the membership...

June

sounds like you've been to the meetings....

Sorry... I think we're working on polar ends again....

for the work tho....

People who are having a hard time buying meat for the family are not going to pay HOA dues.....

People who are having a hard time putting bread and milk in the cubbard could care less about the beaches....

Now is not the time to be talking about a rate increase.... But those of you who can afford it will be the only ones voting... so you will get what you want... and you will be able to hand pick another board... way to go...

Keep up the propaganda and rhetoric tho.... it sounds sincere....

 

[Pete]

People who are having a hard time putting bread and milk in the cubbard could care less about the beaches....


..

If you put milk in the "cubbard" wouldn't it sour within a couple hours? That wouldn't be a smart thing to do if times were tough.

 

[hotcoffee]

If you put milk in the "cubbard" wouldn't it sour within a couple hours? That wouldn't be a smart thing to do if times were tough.

so true....

 

[jedi2814]

Question

Wondered if anyone was aware that rates have already been raised....CRE worked it with the county to tax us an extra $350.00 that goes directly to the CRE through your county taxes....that is seperate from the $350 "DUES" that we pay. This will be reflected in your county taxes.

By laws or covenants cannot be changed unless they have a 50 + 1 vote of the entire community.....right now they are working on converting us to a municipality.

If CRE is converted to a municipality what happens to the amenities?? Right now CRE is a private community, not gated anymore, but a private organization thus keeping the amenities owned privately. A municipality is a public entity so would that make the amenities public? Yes, fees could be charged by the municipality, but I don't think they could stay "CRE members only".

 

[CREResident]

Ownership of Amenities

If CRE is converted to a municipality what happens to the amenities?? Right now CRE is a private community, not gated anymore, but a private organization thus keeping the amenities owned privately. A municipality is a public entity so would that make the amenities public? Yes, fees could be charged by the municipality, but I don't think they could stay "CRE members only".

Legally, the POACRE does not own the lake or other amenities. Neither can any other private organization or municipality take ownership. These "common areas" are owned by all members of CRE each with an equal share. That's my understanding. And that makes it very hard to get all members to give up their legal share of ownership.

 

[hotcoffee]

Just for the record... I gotta put this out there....

The same people who want to raise the M&O fees [without giving you the option not to raise them before we got together on this forum] are the same ones who want to go for a Municipality....

AND... a municipal board can vote to raise taxes at any time without your vote.... they are also the same group who went to the Commissioners in order to raise the Special Taxing District to $250.00.... so don't buy it when they say they wouldn't raise the taxes...

RHETORIC.... they will tell you that your taxes are deductible and your M&O fees are not.... what they aren't telling you is .... if you can't afford the M&O you get a lien... if you can't afford the taxes... the home goes to tax sale....

So be careful here....

 

[jedi2814]

Legally, the POACRE does not own the lake or other amenities. Neither can any other private organization or municipality take ownership. These "common areas" are owned by all members of CRE each with an equal share. That's my understanding. And that makes it very hard to get all members to give up their legal share of ownership.

Ok - a quick look at Real Property Search shows the air strip as owned by Property Owners Assoc. of Chesapeake Ranch Estates. It is my understanding that a municipality would do away with the POACRE and would be responsible for collecting taxes/fees, etc. The deed would transfer to the municipality at that point wouldn't it? An entity owns the property and ownership would have to transfer if that entity were to dissolve. I guess POACRE could still exist in some form but with no way to collect fees how would they provide upkeep on community property? Another fee? If the municipality takes ownership "common areas" would become public property.

 

[hotcoffee]

Ok - a quick look at Real Property Search shows the air strip as owned by Property Owners Assoc. of Chesapeake Ranch Estates. It is my understanding that a municipality would do away with the POACRE and would be responsible for collecting taxes/fees, etc. The deed would transfer to the municipality at that point wouldn't it? An entity owns the property and ownership would have to transfer if that entity were to dissolve. I guess POACRE could still exist in some form but with no way to collect fees how would they provide upkeep on community property? Another fee? If the municipality takes ownership "common areas" would become public property.

Another good point....

If the landowners who have an active interest in these amenities [like the lake and the airport and the stables] were to pay to purchase the amenities from the rest of the membership and pay for the upkeep of these amenities themselves.... then it would be possible to hold the amenity private... I'm pretty sure there are a lot of members who would opt out of CRE dues... and a stipend would be even more incentive to seal the deal....

Instead... they spread the cost of the upkeep to everyone who is living within the artificial boundaries that were once gated... why not change the artificial boundaries...

Without amenities to keep private... we would not need security.... So those who want to keep the amenities private need for the rest of us to pay for the security so that we have to pay the dues to use an amenity that we don't use just to keep it private for those who do find it convenient to them. [it doesn't make sense]

 

[exnodak]

Whoaaa

Every one else is practicing land law without a license here, so I might as well chime in.

POACRE is a corporation owned entirely by the property owners in Chesapeake Ranch Estates. Every property owner is an equal owner of the "corporations" assets regardless of "member standing" by virtue of the bylaws and the terms of sale for every property in CRE now held as private residential property.

If a municipality were to evolve, the above facts would not change. All the assets of POACRE would remain privately owned by the property owners by virtue of their ownership of the corporation.

It would be by ELECTIVE CHOICE of the property owners whether or not to transfer any or all assets to the municipality so we could get state assistance in maintenance (i.e. the cliffs, roads, beaches, etc). It would also be necessary for the municipality to ACCEPT those assets.

Condemnation would be a ridiculous concept here because the MUNICIPALITY, and the MEMBERSHIP OF POACRE would be exactly the same PEOPLE.

If POACRE wanted to transfer the roads to the municipality so that we could get 100% of the State shared revenues we deserve it would take ratification by BOTH the corporate members, AND the municipality.

The scare tactic concerning taxes and liens is about the COUNTY and their divisive operators within CRE. It is right out of the mouths of Jerry Clark and Linda Kelley. If the County wanted to (and it does frequently) take property for non-payment of taxes, fees, and dues, it will (just look at the legal ads in the Recorder every week). Sometimes there are pages and pages of properties being sold for taxes AND STD AND HOA fees.

 

[dawnifer]

A friend of mine lives on a crummy dirt road in the CRE that I cant even take my car down, because it bottoms out and there's no way to outsteer the potholes. She'd been told repeatedly that the road was going to be paved this summer then they received a notice that said due to the economy it would not be paved after all. Nor did they have a projected date of when they finally would do it. It's a crap situation.

 

[hotcoffee]

Let me ask.... exnodak.... what would be the negative or the benefit be to the Water Company if CRE would go Municipal....

And... might I ask.... why couldn't the Association redefine the payment of M&O in new Covenants?

 

[hotcoffee]

A friend of mine lives on a crummy dirt road in the CRE that I cant even take my car down, because it bottoms out and there's no way to outsteer the potholes. She'd been told repeatedly that the road was going to be paved this summer then they received a notice that said due to the economy it would not be paved after all. Nor did they have a projected date of when they finally would do it. It's a crap situation.

I think your friend has a whole lot of company among the members of CRE.... and it's time something was done about it.... just trying to get a handle on what would be the correct response....

I really don't like the municipal idea... because of the tax increase without the need to get member vote.... I'm not sure what the best idea is.... so I'm exploring a whole universe of ideas... including redefining the Association....

 

[exnodak]

Let me ask.... exnodak.... what would be the negative or the benefit be to the Water Company if CRE would go Municipal....

And... might I ask.... why couldn't the Association redefine the payment of M&O in new Covenants?

The water company would continue as is. The franchise would not be affected.

New covenants would be impossible. In order to create a new set of covenants, it would require 100% approval.

Its now impossible to change covenants for HOA's like POACRE that were formed before 1960. A new law went into effect last year that requires a 2/3 vote of approval to change the covenants. (Home Owners Association Act 11-116)

The bylaws are the only vehicle left for POACRE to control fees. Because POACRE is the corporation owner of the roads and amenities, AND because the ownership of POACRE the corporation is assigned by virtue of owning property in CRE regardless of "member standing", the bylaws could be amended to accomodate the necessary cashflow. The downside here is that anyone could resign their membership in the POACRE corporation at any time to escape paying fees, but they would lose their rights to amenities in the process.

It just makes more sense to put all the infrastructure under the municipal umbrella so that we can get funds from state and federal to help maintain the place.

 

[jedi2814]

The water company would continue as is. The franchise would not be affected.

New covenants would be impossible. In order to create a new set of covenants, it would require 100% approval.

Its now impossible to change covenants for HOA's like POACRE that were formed before 1960. A new law went into effect last year that requires a 2/3 vote of approval to change the covenants. (Home Owners Association Act 11-116)

The bylaws are the only vehicle left for POACRE to control fees. Because POACRE is the corporation owner of the roads and amenities, AND because the ownership of POACRE the corporation is assigned by virtue of owning property in CRE regardless of "member standing", the bylaws could be amended to accomodate the necessary cashflow. The downside here is that anyone could resign their membership in the POACRE corporation at any time to escape paying fees, but they would lose their rights to amenities in the process.

It just makes more sense to put all the infrastructure under the municipal umbrella so that we can get funds from state and federal to help maintain the place.

That's my point - if state and federal funds are used to maintain the properties how can those properties stay private and not open to public use??

 

[exnodak]

That's my point - if state and federal funds are used to maintain the properties how can those properties stay private and not open to public use??

Municipalities have the power to get loan and grant money for private infrastructure. Just look what has been accomplished in Chesapeake Beach with the municipality working with private properties.

 

[ReadingTheNews]

A friend of mine lives on a crummy dirt road in the CRE that I cant even take my car down, because it bottoms out and there's no way to outsteer the potholes. She'd been told repeatedly that the road was going to be paved this summer then they received a notice that said due to the economy it would not be paved after all. Nor did they have a projected date of when they finally would do it. It's a crap situation.

I'd really like some clarification on paving of the roads in CRE. I live on Hemlock Rd, just up from Lake Lariat (going towards the PO entrance), and a road just off my road, called Cedar Lane, was paved about a year ago. This 'lane' has two houses on it, and it dead-ends (despite what 'google maps' shows). I've not linked before, but here goes: Google Maps

I wondered whether the folks that lived on that road actually got together and paid to have it done..? I even walked down there last fall and was going to ask, but neither owner answered/seemed to be home.

I guess my question is: where is - or is there - a list that states which roads will be paved? Maybe located at the admin office? I'm curious, especially since as I said this particular road only had two homes on it, and it was paved about a year ago.
And to clarify: I do pay my dues and all, and I never have 'expected' my road to be paved, but I am curious as to how/why this one road received paving.