Dugger vs Dunham

[This_person]

I hope this is my last question on this thread. I'm just curious since you are equating his actions with things that you did when you were his age......... How many five-year-olds did you play doctor with?

I hope it is your last question too, because it is either exceptionally stupid or intentionally exceptionally offensive. Either way it doesn't rise to a level of civil discourse that warrants an answer.

 

[Midnightrider]

Refresh my memory, which of those two did you say your son would be better off with? Oh, I see you think having your son labeled by the government as a sexual offender for probably only four years is better for the child than just parental discipline and counseling.

You just would parent different, and you own that. Bully for you.Um, if they took the boy to a cop after he admitted to the fondling (which is a sexual assault), what are you disagreeing with? They did what you suggest they should have done. When he was still a minor. You know that, but keep saying that they should have done it. Why do you imply that they didn't do what they did?

go back and read the thread.

How about the second and third time josh "confessed"?

I hope this is my last question on this thread. I'm just curious since you are equating his actions with things that you did when you were his age......... How many five-year-olds did you play doctor with?

and how many of those did you play with when you were 14?

 

[Midnightrider]

I hope it is your last question too, because it is either exceptionally stupid or intentionally exceptionally offensive. Either way it doesn't rise to a level of civil discourse that warrants an answer.

you are the one claiming that what josh did was 'weaker' than what you did when you played doctor.

 

[tblwdc]

I hope it is your last question too, because it is either exceptionally stupid or intentionally exceptionally offensive. Either way it doesn't rise to a level of civil discourse that warrants an answer.

I will end the mystery for you. It was intentionally offensive!

 

[tblwdc]

I hope it is your last question too, because it is either exceptionally stupid or intentionally exceptionally offensive. Either way it doesn't rise to a level of civil discourse that warrants an answer.

You know you are correct. I'm sorry that was too offensive. Let me rethink the question. How many of your sisters did you play doctor with?

After all you said the thing that makes this serious is that he did it while they were sleeping. So I obviously you think it's okay that he did with your sisters!

 

[This_person]

go back and read the thread.

I read it. You said repeatedly that you would take your child to the police because that is what you deem to be both proper demonstration of parental responsibility and would teach your child to take responsibility for his actions. Now, you've also acknowledged that doing so would likely result in your child being labeled by the government as a sex offender for at least four years.

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would only do things to your child that you believe are in his best interest. These are the things that you have defended as the appropriate actions and what you would do.

Is it now your contention that you would not do these things, or that I am wrong in giving you the benefit of the doubt that you would do what you believe is in the best interest of your child? Or, does it just sound ####ty when you realize what you are saying?

This has been your repeated position. You own it. There's nothing wrong with being the kind of parent you choose to be, even if that differs from my way of parenting.

How about the second and third time josh "confessed"?

They saw the police officer after the counseling and discipline, in 2003.

and how many of those did you play with when you were 14?

See my previous response.

 

[This_person]

You know you are correct. I'm sorry that was too offensive. Let me rethink the question. How many of your sisters did you play doctor with?

After all you said the thing that makes this serious is that he did it while they were sleeping. So I obviously you think it's okay that he did with your sisters!

I also said that it was sexual assault (that's actually the very first characterization of it I made). I said that it is a sickness (in the same sentence that I called it assault).

You are now knowingly asking me (since you said that you read all of my posts and that was the very first thing I said about this) if I sexually assaulted my sisters, and have a sickness. And you think I will believe that you are raising your level of discourse.

Good day.

 

[MMDad]

There's nothing wrong with being the kind of parent you choose to be, even if that differs from my way of parenting.

So you wouldn't involve the police if you knew that your kid broke the law. Would you cover for him if he robbed someone? How about murder? Drugs? Or do you only help him hide his crimes when it's against family members?

You may think that you are on some kind of moral high road, but you are nothing more than an enabler. Preventing your kid from facing the consequences of his illegal actions is not good parenting.

 

[tblwdc]

I also said that it was sexual assault (that's actually the very first characterization of it I made). I said that it is a sickness (in the same sentence that I called it assault).

You are now knowingly asking me (since you said that you read all of my posts and that was the very first thing I said about this) if I sexually assaulted my sisters, and have a sickness. And you think I will believe that you are raising your level of discourse.

Good day.

Lol..... You also said apart from the girls being asleep this is less than you've done in your life. So it's obviously similar but not as bad as what you did to your sisters. Are you sure you're not from West Virginia rather than southern Maryland?

Don't be angry with me. These are your words not mine!

 

[PsyOps]

I hope this is my last question on this thread. I'm just curious since you are equating his actions with things that you did when you were his age......... How many five-year-olds did you play doctor with?

I think we need to be clear here… AGAIN… no one is condoning what Josh did. I think it’s safe to say Josh fondled the 4 oldest girls. If he did fondle the youngest of those (Jinger) at 5, Josh would have been 11. What some of us are saying is, you cannot hold an 11, 12, 13, 14 year old to the same standard as an adult. I’m certain Josh knew what he was doing was wrong; otherwise he wouldn’t have tried to do this while they were sleeping. If it were me as a parent, I would be shocked, angry, sad, confused… But the last think I could ever do in this sort of situation is haul my child off to the cops and have him booked on molestation charges. There are some things that most definitely require getting the law involved regarding your child. In my opinion this is not one of them. It’s a serious problem that loving parents would address with counseling and certain types of discipline, as well as modifying how you monitor your kids.

I think one of the biggest mistakes we make today is our kneejerk reaction to call the cops on our children when they get out of control. In my day, when we got in fights in school, we were sent home to our parents and they took whatever appropriate action they felt necessary to get their child in line. And I can tell you, when I screwed up, my parents let me have it.

Today, when a kid gets out of line, the school calls the cops, they come in and they cuff him, and in some cases take him to a detention center. CHILDREN, hauled off to jail because they got out of line in school; as if they understood one bit of what they were doing. We live in a different time today where parents seem comfortable with shedding their parenting responsibilities off of them and placing them on someone else. It’s unfathomable for me to have my child arrested for something I can deal with. People that would call the cops on their own child in a situation like this just don’t want to deal with their responsibility to take care of their kids.

 

[PsyOps]

I read it. You said repeatedly that you would take your child to the police.

And let’s not forget ‘ostracize’, he would shun his own child. I’m wondering what this looks like. Cop hauls his son off, charges him with child molestation. They send him home and daddy tells the family… “Jr. is hereby ostracized. No one is to go near him. No one is to talk to him or respond to anything he says or asks. I have already spoken to the community and demand they give no regard to Jr. He will be shunned from every event. No one will play with him. Everyone will reject his very presence.”

 

[tblwdc]

I think we need to be clear here… AGAIN… no one is condoning what Josh did.

I think there are people on here who are, in essence, saying this is nothing more than a boy being a boy. I might tend to agree with them if it were one person on one instance. Correct me if I am wrong, because I admittedly have not read as much as some others on here about this. Wasn't there a victim who wasn't part of the family?

I would agree with you that people call the police too often when things should be handled by the parents. I disagree with you at handling this situation at all costs and never involving the police, if in fact that is your view.

I don't think these things are cookie cutter and there is one answer that fits into each situation. I think they have to be looked at on a case by case. In this instance, if my understanding of events is correct, this happened multiple times. (Three that the parents know of). That to me is beyond the parents ability to protect their other children.

In sofar as the school calling the cops on the kids, well that's what we have done to our kids. We don't let the schools discipline our kids and question every decision a school makes. So we have taken the authority away from teachers and when a kid gets unruly, they call the authorities.

People like MR and This_person will argue something to the emth degree and will change their story or lie about things they said. I take issue with that and enjoy calling them out on things. Other than that, your opinion and my opinion about this situation isn't that far off other than I would have contacted someone who does have more knowledge than I after these repeated incidents and I think the fact that what he did is more than a boy being a boy.

 

[Bann]

Isn't this tread dead, yet?

 

[PsyOps]

Other than that, your opinion and my opinion about this situation isn't that far off other than I would have contacted someone who does have more knowledge than I after these repeated incidents and I think the fact that what he did is more than a boy being a boy.

And that’s where I’m at on this. I am not trying to downplay the severity of what Josh did. Parents catch their kids doing a plethora of illegal things and never think about calling the cops on the: under-aged drinking, smoking, smoking pot, getting in fights… We live in a different mindset today in how we deal with our kids. One time incident of fondling, you have a stern talking with him. Multiple incidents, you get him help.

 

[Midnightrider]

I think we need to be clear here… AGAIN… no one is condoning what Josh did. I think it’s safe to say Josh fondled the 4 oldest girls. If he did fondle the youngest of those (Jinger) at 5, Josh would have been 11. What some of us are saying is, you cannot hold an 11, 12, 13, 14 year old to the same standard as an adult. I’m certain Josh knew what he was doing was wrong; otherwise he wouldn’t have tried to do this while they were sleeping. If it were me as a parent, I would be shocked, angry, sad, confused… But the last think I could ever do in this sort of situation is haul my child off to the cops and have him booked on molestation charges. There are some things that most definitely require getting the law involved regarding your child. In my opinion this is not one of them. It’s a serious problem that loving parents would address with counseling and certain types of discipline, as well as modifying how you monitor your kids.

I think one of the biggest mistakes we make today is our kneejerk reaction to call the cops on our children when they get out of control. In my day, when we got in fights in school, we were sent home to our parents and they took whatever appropriate action they felt necessary to get their child in line. And I can tell you, when I screwed up, my parents let me have it.

Today, when a kid gets out of line, the school calls the cops, they come in and they cuff him, and in some cases take him to a detention center. CHILDREN, hauled off to jail because they got out of line in school; as if they understood one bit of what they were doing. We live in a different time today where parents seem comfortable with shedding their parenting responsibilities off of them and placing them on someone else. It’s unfathomable for me to have my child arrested for something I can deal with. People that would call the cops on their own child in a situation like this just don’t want to deal with their responsibility to take care of their kids.

this is just completely ridiculous. Having your kid face up to the consequences of repeatedly breaking the law in no way means that a parent will not discipline their kid or get them other help. in fact, it indicates that they are willing to make the hard decisions to help their kid learn and grow.

If you help your kid hide their misdoings, thats all you are teaching them to do.

And let’s not forget ‘ostracize’, he would shun his own child. I’m wondering what this looks like. Cop hauls his son off, charges him with child molestation. They send him home and daddy tells the family… “Jr. is hereby ostracized. No one is to go near him. No one is to talk to him or respond to anything he says or asks. I have already spoken to the community and demand they give no regard to Jr. He will be shunned from every event. No one will play with him. Everyone will reject his very presence.”

what it looks like is "josh isn't allowed to be alone with any girls". period, the end.

i guess you feel all sex offenders are 'wronged' by the system or just Josh Duggar?

And that’s where I’m at on this. I am not trying to downplay the severity of what Josh did. Parents catch their kids doing a plethora of illegal things and never think about calling the cops on the: under-aged drinking, smoking, smoking pot, getting in fights… We live in a different mindset today in how we deal with our kids. One time incident of fondling, you have a stern talking with him. Multiple incidents, you get him help.

but no matter how many times he touches your daughters or other girls, you dont take it to the police.
Like i said early on, i might give my kid one pass on something this serious, but by the third 'confession' part of his punishment is going to be accepting the legal consequeces.
as MMdad said, anything else and you are simply enabling him

 

[This_person]

So you wouldn't involve the police if you knew that your kid broke the law. Would you cover for him if he robbed someone? How about murder? Drugs? Or do you only help him hide his crimes when it's against family members?

You may think that you are on some kind of moral high road, but you are nothing more than an enabler. Preventing your kid from facing the consequences of his illegal actions is not good parenting.

You assume much.

Depending on the severity of the crime and victim and my child's role, etc., it may be the right thing. In this case it was not.

 

[Midnightrider]

You assume much.

Depending on the severity of the crime and victim and my child's role, etc., it may be the right thing. In this case it was not.

This was a sexual assault, the victims were little girls, one of them from outside the family, and josh's 'role' was that of molester. What else would you need? :shrug:

 

[This_person]

This was a sexual assault, the victims were little girls, one of them from outside the family, and josh's 'role' was that of molester. What else would you need? :shrug:

You realize that it is perfectly fine if we simply disagree, right?

 

[Midnightrider]

You realize that it is perfectly fine if we simply disagree, right?

You indicated you had some criteria. What else would you need?

 

[This_person]

You indicated you had some criteria. What else would you need?

I don't have a checklist or procedure for you, bud. Sorry. It's kind of a case by case deal.