Electric Car News

DogWhisperer

Active Member
Well, here they are. All of the comments. Which ones present a different take?. I see Tom, one comment.


Chungobungo13 hours ago
I am bookmarking this to post to any of the endless FUDsters that I see about.

John James 11 hours ago
Same thing I have experiences, my Model Y dropped from 326 to 302 range in the first 5,000 miles and has stayed there ever since.

windbourne John James10 hours ago
That is normal to all Li-ion.

Chris John James3 hours ago
My model 3 did the same, although I noticed it was actually age related. Degraded steadily for the first 6 months then flatlined.
This makes sense given how these batteries age.
Some manufacturers hide this behind a buffer, when new the car underreports range until degredation uses up the buffer. I think this is to reduce customer concerns and give a more consistent user experience. You can see the effect of it on some of the car graphs in the article. Tesla don't appear to have this buffer. All cars including Tesla have an additional buffer so the battery is never completely full or completely empty, this is to improve life of the battery pack.and is also hidden from the customer.

Ramon Zarat11 hours ago
Model S rank brought down by the fact it was released first, a long time ago, with older tech. Pretty sure Model S sold in the last 5 years have much less battery replacement.

Tom610 Ramon Zarat10 hours ago
Model S 100kWh is not older tech, yet it has a tremendous degradation problem.

needa8 hours ago
How many Ioniqs with 80k miles are in that? The flatlining is because one car went that far. Without knowing the age and mileage of every vehicle in the survey, including those that replaced, this hole thing is pointless

SteveMayfield 12 hours ago
So you replace the battery about as often as a transmission (and at about the same cost). Good to know....

Luvhrtz SteveMayfield9 hours ago
No. My MS has over 200,000 miles and +90% battery. Mine is probably better than most but not an outlier at all. Tons of data on higher mileage BEVs support how the batteries last and last.

Simon Luvhrtz2 hours ago
you're not alone, My X (P100D) is over 200K miles, 6 years old and seems to be ~6% down from new.

Philip Grice SteveMayfield6 hours ago
Two of my friends just had the transmissions in their Jaguars rebuilt. German ZF transmissions. One cost $14,000 and the other $17,000. I told them they should have had them converted into EVs.

Ken Shouldice 11 hours ago
I expect to get a million miles out my MYP.
I hope that the range is closer to 70% than 50% by then.

Kevin J. Rice Ken Shouldice8 hours ago
It's my understanding that 2170 nickel cells have more power (good for MYP acceleration) but last fewer cycles than LFP batteries. This isn't to say that it's not worth it, you may be right to have chosen MYP since it starts out a higher range and stops declining after a while, but I think over 6000+ cycles the LFP cars will end up with better range retention, based on Gissege Limiting Factor descriptions, mostly.

Chris Kevin J. Rice4 hours ago
6000 cycles is 1.5m miles. Most new car buyers are not going to be choosing the lowest spec verses highest spec Tesla based on its ability to travel that far.
The benefit of having a million mile battery is not the ability to cover a million miles, but to cover 150k miles without worries.

Jess12 hours ago
Is there not a graph that shows range hitting 0 when the battery fails? No data beyond 100k miles?

BigWu Jess11 hours ago edited
FTA: “Due to the relative novelty of electric vehicles on the market, significant amounts of data are not currently available on the effect of mileage above 100,000 miles.”
Only two cars, the Tesla Model S (neé in 2012) and Nissan Leaf (2011) are sufficiently old enough to have data, with the Leaf’s far more limited due to its very limited range (73 miles EPA) crimping the number that would have crossed the 100k mile threshold.
The Model S does have robust data past 100k miles though (a single model, but there it is). At 125k-150k miles, 90% of original range remains. At 200k miles, ~85% remains.
Anecdotally, my 2013 MS is spot on these numbers, with 90% of original range at 140k miles (-1% average per year). It also matches the flattening curve, with no noticeable loss in range since about 100k miles.

Luvhrtz BigWu9 hours ago
Tons do better than you are posting. My own is over 200,000 miles and is still +90%.

Nate24 minutes ago
What about former EV owners who didn't replace the battery because it was prohibitively expensive?
Without that data, you're literally just tracking people that didn't have a problem, not everyone.

Alan Wilson 4 hours ago
Good stuff ... the battery management systems are getting better every year...
As is the pressure that the consumer are putting on to the EV manufacturers to investing into better batterys and systems...
It maybe a nice little business to get into testing EV batterys, repair and replace ..
I don't really know anything about electric cars but the guys who said he had 200.000 miles in 6 years is averaging about 33,000 per year. That's a crap ton of driving and maybe a longer time charging.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Aptera has a few programs to obtain funding, and those that invest a significant amount in the company are placed on the very short list to receive first run models before anyone else. Many people have done so.

My number on the wait list is 25,880, and I'm very ok with waiting for my number to become available, even if it takes longer. My thinking is that if I'm going to spend that much, I'm not going to be a beta tester. let someone else do that, and by the time mine comes up, there's a much better chance bugs will have been found and fixed. And if the first 25,879 vehicles prove it to be a dog, I still have time to cancel my order.
I was speaking specifically about the Lightning. Ford decided to do a rush conversion job to be first EV pickup to market. To make that work, they made a horribly inefficient truck. But yeah, getting the first wave from any maker not the best idea.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
I don't really know anything about electric cars but the guys who said he had 200.000 miles in 6 years is averaging about 33,000 per year. That's a crap ton of driving and maybe a longer time charging.
It's only just over 100 miles a day, 5 days a week. That wouldn't be hard to do even with a level 1 charger.

And it's not that much driving. I used to have a 90 mile 1-way commute to work (for about 5 years). Though it was almost entirely 4-5 lane per side highway with everyone driving 80+mph so it wasn't as bad as a 5 mile commute in LA.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

Democrats' favorite green mode of transportation is causing explosions, death



In 2022, e-bikes were responsible for an estimated 220 fires, up more than 100% year-over-year, and six deaths, according to the New York Fire Department (FDNY). Already this year, there have been 59 fires, more than three dozen injuries and five deaths in New York City as a result of e-bike battery fires.

"These are incredibly dangerous devices if they are unregulated or used improperly," New York City Fire Commissioner Laura Kavanagh said during a public safety in February. "They show an enormous amount of fire when they catch fire — they often present an immediate inability to exit one's room or one's apartment or one's home."

"We're going to come at this from every angle of enforcement, but also want to do community outreach and will be in every community working with every stakeholder," she continued.

In the most recent example of a catastrophic fire from an e-bike battery, two children were killed Monday in Queens, New York. FDNY Chief of Department John Hodgens said that, while firefighters arrived to the scene quickly, the violent nature of lithium-ion battery-triggered fires makes it harder to quell.
 

glhs837

Power with Control

Democrats' favorite green mode of transportation is causing explosions, death



In 2022, e-bikes were responsible for an estimated 220 fires, up more than 100% year-over-year, and six deaths, according to the New York Fire Department (FDNY). Already this year, there have been 59 fires, more than three dozen injuries and five deaths in New York City as a result of e-bike battery fires.

"These are incredibly dangerous devices if they are unregulated or used improperly," New York City Fire Commissioner Laura Kavanagh said during a public safety in February. "They show an enormous amount of fire when they catch fire — they often present an immediate inability to exit one's room or one's apartment or one's home."

"We're going to come at this from every angle of enforcement, but also want to do community outreach and will be in every community working with every stakeholder," she continued.

In the most recent example of a catastrophic fire from an e-bike battery, two children were killed Monday in Queens, New York. FDNY Chief of Department John Hodgens said that, while firefighters arrived to the scene quickly, the violent nature of lithium-ion battery-triggered fires makes it harder to quell.

Yep, shitty batteries will cause problems.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

The $25,000 electric vehicle is coming, with big implications for the auto market and car buyers



From the headlines, car buyers might think the most important force driving down the cost of electric vehicles is the $7,500 tax credit that was expanded last summer, followed by Tesla’s recent aggressive cost-cutting to gain more market share.

Look closer, and the work auto companies are doing themselves to refine EV technology — and, crucially, new manufacturing processes — loom as an even bigger deal. And that’s resulting in a series of newly-announced and coming-soon models that will make EVs much cheaper, and more mainstream, highlighted by Tesla’s first detailed public explanation of how its next-generation car due next year will come at a lower price tag, expected to start between $25,000 and $30,000.

The rise of the mass-market EV will be a milestone — environmentally, economically, financially and even politically. And as the Biden administration pushes changes that seek to aggressively remake the car market in favor of EVs more quickly than previously anticipated.
 

glhs837

Power with Control

The $25,000 electric vehicle is coming, with big implications for the auto market and car buyers



From the headlines, car buyers might think the most important force driving down the cost of electric vehicles is the $7,500 tax credit that was expanded last summer, followed by Tesla’s recent aggressive cost-cutting to gain more market share.

Look closer, and the work auto companies are doing themselves to refine EV technology — and, crucially, new manufacturing processes — loom as an even bigger deal. And that’s resulting in a series of newly-announced and coming-soon models that will make EVs much cheaper, and more mainstream, highlighted by Tesla’s first detailed public explanation of how its next-generation car due next year will come at a lower price tag, expected to start between $25,000 and $30,000.

The rise of the mass-market EV will be a milestone — environmentally, economically, financially and even politically. And as the Biden administration pushes changes that seek to aggressively remake the car market in favor of EVs more quickly than previously anticipated.

“Everybody is watching to see where Tesla heads,” Ives said. “That’s going to dictate pricing and competition in the market.”

I'm really curious about the Equinox. Given GMs been selling the Bolt for a loss forever, I'm not sure how they can pull off the Equinox at that price point. Tesla has three things going for it in the "25K Car"

1. Purportedly, this vehicle will be the one to feature an entirely cast subframe. Nobody else is close with the large castings.
2, The structural battery pack. The first gen in the Model Y not super impressive from a capacity standpoint, but what Tesla does so well is iterate rapidly. Expect more capacity and quicker charge times.
3. This new body assembly method. IT sounds super dry and dull, but so does lining your factory with 100 loading docks down the side so that parts and material go right from the wall closest to where they are needed directly to the point of need. "Big deal, you reduced the size of the Receiving department." But no, what you've done is reduced the time and effort expended on movement and finding of parts and stuff down to almost nothing.

Bonus round. I suspect perhaps that there will be a 30K conventional version of the 25K car, and a 25K version made like the Cybertruck. Losing the need for all those body panels and paint would be where your 5K lower price comes from.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
EV's will be gone in the next 10 years they are junk and not worth what anyone pays for them...JMO



J Jonah Jameson Laughing GIF
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
I'm really curious about the Equinox. Given GMs been selling the Bolt for a loss forever, I'm not sure how they can pull off the Equinox at that price point. Tesla has three things going for it in the "25K Car"

1. Purportedly, this vehicle will be the one to feature an entirely cast subframe. Nobody else is close with the large castings.
2, The structural battery pack. The first gen in the Model Y not super impressive from a capacity standpoint, but what Tesla does so well is iterate rapidly. Expect more capacity and quicker charge times.
3. This new body assembly method. IT sounds super dry and dull, but so does lining your factory with 100 loading docks down the side so that parts and material go right from the wall closest to where they are needed directly to the point of need. "Big deal, you reduced the size of the Receiving department." But no, what you've done is reduced the time and effort expended on movement and finding of parts and stuff down to almost nothing.

Bonus round. I suspect perhaps that there will be a 30K conventional version of the 25K car, and a 25K version made like the Cybertruck. Losing the need for all those body panels and paint would be where your 5K lower price comes from.

The Blazer, followed by the Equinox are the first vehicles to use the ultium platform. That's supposed to be a big cost reduction with their own designed and vertically aligned batteries and motors on a generic skid. Basically the first non-tesla to be made in a tesla fasion rather than a partnership of 30 different companies that each need to make a profit in-between.

But you'll know the first real success when GM or other companies start selling in every state and not just the low-emissions legislated states.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
When you have to replace them every 50,000 miles you are bound to sell more.
Not sure what you are seeing but I dont' know anyone that ever replaced an F150 for mechanical reasons below the 250k mark and most never were. But good luck to you and your neighbors.

Might want to tell them to change that oil every year or so. :jet:
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Not sure what you are seeing but I dont' know anyone that ever replaced an F150 for mechanical reasons below the 250k mark and most never were. But good luck to you and your neighbors.


My 96 Bronco has 280k miles ... my expedition 320k

but then my 95 Saturn was still running strong at 250k when I sent her off the the scrapper
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
I brought two ford trucks back in the seventies for my contracting business, they were a pain in my ass, always something wrong with them (mainly engine and brakes). They just plain didn't hold up, switched to GM much much better product, used them every workday NEVER had a engine problem but did blow up one transmission and this is over 30 years and about 35 trucks. Maybe I am biased though, however when you spend your hard earned money for something and it doesn't hold up you tend to try to find a better product, I did and I will stand by GM.
 
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