glhs837
Power with Control
Short version. Most EV sales are. One company still selling like hotcakes....
Electric Car News
- Thread starter Kyle
- Start date
Folks are catching on
glhs837
Power with Control
Funny how everybody says the govt interference is a bad thing, but then acts like the effects of that interference is just market forces.
Not everyone is stupid my friend, folks are responding to all the negatives about EVs and their so called rapid charging features. Not ready for prime time means exactly that!
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
What this tells me is, the charismatic Jim Jones philosophy lives on, as there have been a bunch of people drinking the EV cool-aid. And I wonder, exactly what do these people think the trade in value of these cars will be 4-5-6 years from now? I'm thinking there are going to be a lot of very unhappy people.
What this tells me is, the charismatic Jim Jones philosophy lives on, as there have been a bunch of people drinking the EV cool-aid. And I wonder, exactly what do these people think the trade in value of these cars will be 4-5-6 years from now? I'm thinking there are going to be a lot of very unhappy people.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
How Much My Tesla Model 3 Depreciated In 4 Years - CleanTechnica
Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! We used to produce a lot of total cost of ownership analyses for the Tesla Model 3 and other electric vehicles, but especially the Tesla Model 3. Something I learned from that is that ... [continued]
cleantechnica.com
Way way more than my 2019 Toyota Hybrid with a similar amount of miles on it.
glhs837
Power with Control
How Much My Tesla Model 3 Depreciated In 4 Years - CleanTechnica
Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! We used to produce a lot of total cost of ownership analyses for the Tesla Model 3 and other electric vehicles, but especially the Tesla Model 3. Something I learned from that is that ... [continued]
Way way more than my 2019 Toyota Hybrid with a similar amount of miles on it.
Again, this is the effect of the govt knocking $7500 bucks off the price of a new one. Just like Cash For Clunkers raised the value of shitty old used cars, the govt handing out free cash for new ones affects the value of used ones. And Teslas trade in value on the Tesla site not normallu indicative of what you can sell for. Below is a quick scan within 100 miles. Could he get 30K, maybe not, but much closer to that than 20K, I'm sure.
Autotrader - page unavailable
www.autotrader.com
Lifetime depends on your age, right? Hope I've got a good 30 years left. I think in that time, they will. But here's the thing. They dont need to replace every truck, nor should they. What they can almost match and can in most cases replace (Not should, that's a choice to be left for the buyer). is the most popular pickup format sold today. The quad cab shortbed 1/2 ton that tows only occasionally and not for long distances. Which is most of that market. Lots of trades use them and dont put on large amounts of daily miles and dont tow that much.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
That gvt money actually helped jack up the prices of the Toyota plug in hybrids. People that are able to get them for sticker price are the luck ones. Dealers are regularly charging $10k over sticker after they also charge for bullshit dealer added options.
Economics 101.
Whenever the government throws money at something, the price rises.
It's amazing how that never sinks in.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
That and Tesla is going for market share right now, they have to beat the Chinese companies out in that side of the world.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
Ok. One anecdotal story about a person that babied their EV and got an "estimated", "dealer", trade-in value. What's not taken into account, or thought about, the longer an EV is owned, and used, normal battery degradation occurs reducing the car's over all mileage on a single charge. With certain environmental factors taken into account, that can make battery degradation even worse. That is going to affect trade-in and resell values, a lot. Where, a brand new EV, with a fully charged battery would get, say 300 miles, after years of ownership and 10's of thousands of miles later, now gets, say, 190 miles on that single charge.
Your "2019 Toyota Hybrid" say in the Camry model, gets an EPA-estimated 51 mpg in the city and 53 mpg on the highway. And I would bet after 70,000+ or more miles today, would still get very close to the same miles per gallon. Even with a regular ICE vehicle, new original mileage stats are nearly identical on cars 10, 20, 30+ years down the road with over 100,000, 200,000, 300,000+ miles. ICE vehicles will consistently get the same MPG over their service life when maintained properly. Sure, an ICE engine, and other components, might need to be worked on and serviced after a while, but at least they can be worked on by anyone with mechanical knowledge, and tools, as also any automotive shop.
That's like buying a used 4-seater golf cart on the cheap for $1500 with the original batteries that now only last about 30 minutes before needing to be charged again. But to replace those batteries, to bring the cart back up to spec, would typically, depending on model, run from a $1000 upward to over $3000 for the latest in lithium batteries.
So why would anyone buy a used EV that got less mileage per charge than a new one? Unless the battery pack were replaced by the dealer? When that would greatly increase the cost of that used EV, which would only encourage a person to consider buy a another brand new EV instead of a used one, or to simply go back to an ICE vehicle?
I don't see a used EV sales market at all in the future. Person to person sales? Sure, here and there. But it definitely won't go mainstream.
How Much My Tesla Model 3 Depreciated In 4 Years - CleanTechnica
Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! We used to produce a lot of total cost of ownership analyses for the Tesla Model 3 and other electric vehicles, but especially the Tesla Model 3. Something I learned from that is that ... [continued]
Way way more than my 2019 Toyota Hybrid with a similar amount of miles on it.
Ok. One anecdotal story about a person that babied their EV and got an "estimated", "dealer", trade-in value. What's not taken into account, or thought about, the longer an EV is owned, and used, normal battery degradation occurs reducing the car's over all mileage on a single charge. With certain environmental factors taken into account, that can make battery degradation even worse. That is going to affect trade-in and resell values, a lot. Where, a brand new EV, with a fully charged battery would get, say 300 miles, after years of ownership and 10's of thousands of miles later, now gets, say, 190 miles on that single charge.
Your "2019 Toyota Hybrid" say in the Camry model, gets an EPA-estimated 51 mpg in the city and 53 mpg on the highway. And I would bet after 70,000+ or more miles today, would still get very close to the same miles per gallon. Even with a regular ICE vehicle, new original mileage stats are nearly identical on cars 10, 20, 30+ years down the road with over 100,000, 200,000, 300,000+ miles. ICE vehicles will consistently get the same MPG over their service life when maintained properly. Sure, an ICE engine, and other components, might need to be worked on and serviced after a while, but at least they can be worked on by anyone with mechanical knowledge, and tools, as also any automotive shop.
That's like buying a used 4-seater golf cart on the cheap for $1500 with the original batteries that now only last about 30 minutes before needing to be charged again. But to replace those batteries, to bring the cart back up to spec, would typically, depending on model, run from a $1000 upward to over $3000 for the latest in lithium batteries.
So why would anyone buy a used EV that got less mileage per charge than a new one? Unless the battery pack were replaced by the dealer? When that would greatly increase the cost of that used EV, which would only encourage a person to consider buy a another brand new EV instead of a used one, or to simply go back to an ICE vehicle?
I don't see a used EV sales market at all in the future. Person to person sales? Sure, here and there. But it definitely won't go mainstream.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
I sure wouldn't buy a used EV as they are today. If there was a built in battery replacement infrastructure that may change my perception.
My hybrid uses NiMH cells and not that large of a pack, but there being 20 year old Priuses with 1M + miles. Toyota found out if they only use the batteries between 20%-80% state of charge they last damn near forever.
glhs837
Power with Control
Degradation is nowhere near that bad in modern cylindrical cell
packs. Folks see that initial hit, then that degradation tapers off over time. If your EV was made in the last three to five years, you should never see degradation as bad as you say. Tesla says its older packs, the ones in the Models S and X lose on average 12% over 200K.
Trying to Predict How Much Range EV Batteries Lose over Time
Many variables go into electric vehicle battery range degradation, but a few factors are known contributors.
Now, I will caveat this that I really dont have a lot of faith in the longevity of pouch and prismatic cells over time. So what Ford and GM and others that havent switched to cylindrical cells will look like over time, no idea.
Dealers Are Turning Away EV Inventory: Report
Insider reports that some dealers don’t want new electric vehicle deliveries. Scott Kunes, the chief operating officer of Kunes Auto and RV Group told the website that his company has “turned away EV inventory.” The dealers have pointed to a lack of demand for less-than-affluent customers. The wave of early adopters willing to spend to get their hands on an electric vehicle has faded, but cost-conscious consumers are apprehensive about making the transition.
Kunes noted that automakers are asking dealers to make a significant investment in EVs and the dealers want to see a return on their investment. EV sales are starting to plateau as the demand from early adopters has seemingly been satisfied. The conversations in showrooms are now not just about higher prices but about the lifestyle changes tied to electric vehicles.
The low hanging fruit has been picked, hybrids have a shot though.
glhs837
Power with Control
Gil posted the exact same story Wed night, see page 74
Sneakers
Just sneakin' around....
I posted a vid a while back... Europe has battery exchange stations. You pull in, and in 5-10 minutes drive out with a fresh battery pac. The issue of degredation and cost to replace becomes moot.
Great in concept, but not all cars use the same battery pac. Unless they standardize, which is unlikely, it will become vehicle-specific exchange points.
Kinnakeet
Well-Known Member
The Govt' SUCKS
glhs837
Power with Control
And I think once you run the numbers as far as cost to support that infrastructure it doesn't add up. Think of the millions of batteries you need to keep shelved all around the country. Waiting for a car to roll in. Think of the balancing act to move batteries from place to place his demand changes.