Fetal stem cells save lives

[Larry Gude]

You ever watch a...

I think that's a little far fetched, but even if it weren't, if mortality is such an issue, why has mankind always looked for the "fountain of youth" and eternal life, only to shun it when it's discovered?

...Frankenstein movie?

 

[mAlice]

...would you like a cookie? I still didn't mention abortion.

 

[mAlice]

...Frankenstein movie?

Was that supposed to be an answer to my question?

 

[Larry Gude]

My question is...

How much farther down the slope are you willing to go?

...what's at the bottom of the slope?

 

[mAlice]

I don't mean to be insulting here... although it will sound that way... but the same argument could apply to what the Nazis did to the Jews.

It doesn't sound insulting at all, but I don't see the relationship. Full grown human beings will not fit in a petri dish.

 

[Larry Gude]

It's not an answer...

Was that supposed to be an answer to my question?

...but it serves to illustrate the question further;

What of immortality?


Mortal man has every and the only reason there is to be good and do good; death. Life is all you get.

Look at what people who believe in immortality are willing to do. Suicide bombers believe in everlasting life. Hell, they get more stuff if they kill themselves and slaughter others in the process.

What will be our moral code if we're all immortal? What will right and wrong be based on?

 

[Larry Gude]

We have but...

I'm pretty sure "we've" had this discussion before...the morality of embryonic stem cell research.

...I've yet to read anyone address immortality.

 

[SamSpade]

It doesn't sound insulting at all, but I don't see the relationship. Full grown human beings will not fit in a petri dish.

No, but you can do the next best thing - grow a human being in a lab, sans head or brain - as a storage locker for organs, tissue, bones, eyes, etc.

 

[mAlice]

...I've yet to read anyone address immortality.

actually, I did. Apparently not the way you wanted it addressed. You'll have to be a little more clear, I can't read your mind.

Look at what people who believe in immortality are willing to do.

They're mad. They'd find an excuse anyway.

I can't speak for others, but it wouldn't change the way I live my life. Would it change the way you live yours?

 

[mAlice]

No, but you can do the next best thing - grow a human being in a lab, sans head or brain - as a storage locker for organs, tissue, bones, eyes, etc.

Immortality. It's what man has been looking for since the beginning of time. Why all of a sudden is it going to be shunned?

 

[Larry Gude]

Oh come on...

actually, I did. Apparently not the way you wanted it addressed. You'll have to be a little more clear, I can't read your mind.




They're mad. They'd find an excuse anyway.

I can't speak for others, but it wouldn't change the way I live my life. Would it change the way you live yours?

...if you knew you'd live forever, that wouldn't change your life?

I would damn sure change mine. Knowing I'm going to die gives everything I do (and don't do) ultimate meaning.

 

[Bruzilla]

...what's at the bottom of the slope?

Watch a movie called "The Island" that's on one of the premium channels this month.

 

[Kerad]

...in prior installments of the great stem cell debate my question, as yet unanswered, is this;

(preface) The clear goal of human cell investigation is...immortality.

That goal, that desire has been mans golden ring since we started using leeches and bleeding people to death to try and save them.

So, if we are on the threshold of truly being able to do it all, grow a new heart, liver, etc, the brain is next and then the power, the mechanism to, say, re-start someones brain as we do already with hearts.

Do we simply go all the way to being able to keep each individual alive forever?

If so, what is the real value of life if there is no death?

We're not talking about harvesting some of your own hair to grow more. We're not talking about storing some of your own blood before a big operation. Nor are we talking about skin grafts. We're talking about using, harvesting, what was on it's way to being a person, not a hair or a piece of skin, in order to fix and repair another.

Just because we can (or may well soon be able to) should we?

Should we?

The ethical dilemma of "immortality" is, in my mind, unrelated to this discussion. You say that stem cell research brings us closer to achieving immortality. I can see that point. The same can be said about the vast majority of medical treatments.

Do you feel the same immortality issues when you drive past a hospital. Is a doctor not "playing God" every time he/she saves someone's life on the operating table? Are we cheating the reaper when we call an for an ambulance at the scene of a serious auto accident? Am I reaching for immortality when I pop my vitamin every morning?

If man is meant to die...and that is the intention of an all powerful God, I would think that this God will never allow mankind to discover true immortality. I don't spend much time thinking about that aspect of it...but that would be my opinion, I suppose.

 

[Bruzilla]

Immortality. It's what man has been looking for since the beginning of time. Why all of a sudden is it going to be shunned?

Immortailty is what some people have been looking for, but not most of them. Most people are quite happy with the one life they have, live it to the fullest, and check out without being willing to commit murder to stay alive a little longer.

As f'ed up as this world is I'm surprised anyone would want to live forever.

 

[Larry Gude]

I disagree...

Immortality. It's what man has been looking for since the beginning of time. Why all of a sudden is it going to be shunned?

...SOME men have sought immortality. Most men and women LIVE their LIFE because, in my opinion, it's all they got.

Jesus H. Why put off today that which you can put off until 3750?

Seeking to cure illness, to fix breaks, to deal with heart disease, to be a doctor, it's all to postpone the inevitable, death.

I propose to you that immortality would turn us all into horrible things.

Where is the right to punish one for violating another if it, murder, stabbing, a broken nose, is no more an inconvenience that a trip to the auto body shop is now?

I submit everything we are and do and our motivation is based on mortality.

 

[SamSpade]

...if you knew you'd live forever, that wouldn't change your life?

Hell yeah - it'd really mess up my retirement.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

The same can be said about the vast majority of medical treatments.

...it can't.

We don't treat cancer so you can live forever. We don't treat AID's so you can live forever. We don't do heart transplants so you can live forever.

Fetal stem cell research, if it's the panacea claimed by it's advocates, will lead to you having a copy of your heart, your liver, your skin, your bones, every living cell, in storage that you would logically use when needed.

If we can do that, we can figure how the brain works...and how to operate it. How to...make one. Yours. Mine.

How far is it, once we can do all that, to controlling that energy, electricity really, that we call...life?

How far is it to plugging a USB cable into your body at night to back up your days events into your stored brain, you're spare unit?

How far to be real time so you are constantly uploading, every second, your conscience?

 

[Larry Gude]

You're...

Hell yeah - it'd really mess up my retirement.

...what?

 

[mAlice]

...SOME men have sought immortality. Most men and women LIVE their LIFE because, in my opinion, it's all they got.

Jesus H. Why put off today that which you can put off until 3750?

Seeking to cure illness, to fix breaks, to deal with heart disease, to be a doctor, it's all to postpone the inevitable, death.

I propose to you that immortality would turn us all into horrible things.

Where is the right to punish one for violating another if it, murder, stabbing, a broken nose, is no more an inconvenience that a trip to the auto body shop is now?

I submit everything we are and do and our motivation is based on mortality.

Well, that's your opinion, and I submit: If that's the way you feel about, why do you go to the doctor at all? Do you get your annual physical? Do you have a living will that states in the event of a survivable heart attack, do nothing? If you're in a bad car accident and can be repaired, do you choose to do nothing and die?

I don't think it would make any single individual a different person than they already are. My opinion.

 

[mAlice]

Immortailty is what some people have been looking for, but not most of them. Most people are quite happy with the one life they have, live it to the fullest, and check out without being willing to commit murder to stay alive a little longer.

As f'ed up as this world is I'm surprised anyone would want to live forever.

Along the lines of that particular thought process, how is it any different for someone who has a terminal illness? What keeps them from going on a killing spree before they kick the bucket?