For all of those in Southern Md that have no clue how to get through a crossover

Those "Stenny bricks" really screwed up that intersection didn't they. Also made sure half the people wanting to make U-Turn can't actually turn in the radius that is there.
That's true of nearly all u-turns around here. Waiting at the light on 235SB at Buck Hewitt. Light changes, make the u-turn. With my truck and the way the intersection is designed, I wind up crossing into the far right turn lane in the NB side.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
That's true of nearly all u-turns around here. Waiting at the light on 235SB at Buck Hewitt. Light changes, make the u-turn. With my truck and the way the intersection is designed, I wind up crossing into the far right turn lane in the NB side.
At least you don't have to back up like most people do at the GMR and Willows road intersection. Very few vehicles can make that U-Turn.
 

MiddleGround

Well-Known Member
That is gracious of you - but I did not. Perhaps I was not articulate enough. My bad.

IN the OP - in that diagram - if you are at an intersection where there is a LIGHT - you will absolutely see
lines, if any, painted exactly the "wrong" way instructing motorists to drive that way. A typical one that
I go through all the time is the one at Aldi's, going south on 235. Those turn lanes do not cross over each
other. The lines painted on the road instruct you to do it "wrong".

Moreover, in the OP pic - if there is a second person in line behind the first - the view is still obstructed.
You gain nothing by doing it the "right" way. It only works if there are only two or fewer cars. Worse, if the
second driver chooses to creep ahead behind the first one on his side - he's going to BLOCK your path through
the intersection. And that is typically what I experience.

Doing it the "wrong" way still means, an obstructed view -but it is usually that way most of the time, unless there's
ONLY two cars. But it makes it impossible to create the logjam I described.
I do not know what "picture in the OP" you are looking at but, the one that I see depicts any of the number of uncontrolled medians on 235. Typically found noth of Hollywood/Leonardtown road. It was YOU that decided to add the "Lights" and totally change the intersection type and scenario.

Feel free to re-post the picture that you see in the OP and point out to me where the "lights" are.

Otherwise... like I said... you clearly altered the topic of the OP and based your post on that change. Which is clearly WRONG according to the OP.

hope you now understand why I posted that you were wrong.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Feel free to re-post the picture that you see in the OP and point out to me where the "lights" are.
I guess I wasn't explaining it very well. The reason I don't agree that it is "wrong" is that when
traffic designers CHOOSE to put lanes in the roadway - such as, at LIGHTS - they put them in
the "wrong" way. So why should there be another "right" way for when it there is NO light?
Does it make sense that the persons who DESIGN the intersection choose to do it "wrong"?

Because of precisely the reasons I gave - there is only one instance where the "right" way grants
an advantage - when there are two and only two opposing cars, one in each opposing lane. Any less
and it is pointless, and any more and you can't gain an advantage of seeing oncoming traffic, because
the NEXT guy in line is still blocking your view - and that's only if he's not an ass and pulls forward,
blocking your turn.

My "wrong" way avoids that - except you will have to look for traffic carefully - and if there's no one
then it's not a problem.
 

MiddleGround

Well-Known Member
I guess I wasn't explaining it very well. The reason I don't agree that it is "wrong" is that when
traffic designers CHOOSE to put lanes in the roadway - such as, at LIGHTS - they put them in
the "wrong" way. So why should there be another "right" way for when it there is NO light?
Does it make sense that the persons who DESIGN the intersection choose to do it "wrong"?

Because of precisely the reasons I gave - there is only one instance where the "right" way grants
an advantage - when there are two and only two opposing cars, one in each opposing lane. Any less
and it is pointless, and any more and you can't gain an advantage of seeing oncoming traffic, because
the NEXT guy in line is still blocking your view - and that's only if he's not an ass and pulls forward,
blocking your turn.

My "wrong" way avoids that - except you will have to look for traffic carefully - and if there's no one
then it's not a problem.
Regardless of which side of a median you are on... any traffic that is "in line" to make a turn will block your view. That is a given and a known fact. The reason why you use the right side of the median is to give the best possible look at on-coming traffic. Any other position will hinder your view even more. Even if there are only 2 people in the median, if you pull to the left side and the other person does the same... they WILL hinder your view.
 

JEFF69Z28

Member
No, if you are obstruction traffic on a multilane highway, you need to get the hell over. Even if it's not legally required, it's the right thing to do unless you are turning left shortly. Should not need a law to require courtesy.
So its ok to go 70-80 mph when you go that fast everyone is in the way
 

glhs837

Power with Control
So its ok to go 70-80 mph when you go that fast everyone is in the way

So, it's a pretty basic thing that if you need to misstate the other guys argument to make a point, you dont really have one. Dont put words in my mouth. Your speed should be relative to surrounding traffic and conditions. Very few places it's safe to go 70 down here, and no place that 80 is okay, IMO. If you are going to same speed as the right lane, and are not turing left, join the folks in that lane. If you are going some speed faster, and someone approaches you from the rear, find a convenient hole to merge in and let people get by you. Its a thing called courtesy.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
If you are going to same speed as the right lane, and are not turing left, join the folks in that lane. If you are going some speed faster, and someone approaches you from the rear, find a convenient hole to merge in and let people get by you. Its a thing called courtesy.
It's also the law in more and more states..since so many drivers are apparently too stupid to drive that way without facing the penalty of a ticket.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
I guess I wasn't explaining it very well. The reason I don't agree that it is "wrong" is that when
traffic designers CHOOSE to put lanes in the roadway - such as, at LIGHTS -
Yes, at lights, I've never seen any lines in a cross over / cut through. At the lights you have two opposing lines of traffic controlled by a stop light.
The lines are there to ensure drivers stay on their side - to act as guidance. You are not contending with the opposing side going straight.
You changed the situation to fit your narrative
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
This thread proves my point that there are people out there who are going to justify doing the wrong thing, because they can.
Because they feel they know better or they have "the right" to police other drivers.

Granted, some of the laws in Maryland are strange or antiquated, or simply designed to make writing a ticket easier :)

Like what's the legally required distance between speed limit signs? What rules dictate their placement and spacing?
When is it legal to make a U-turn at an intersection that has a No U-Turn sign posted?
When is it legal to drive the wrong way (against traffic)?
Are their exceptions to the "most come to a complete stop" at stop signs and red light (even for right turns)?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
You changed the situation to fit your narrative
Did you just change names, or am I still talking to Middle Ground?

I don't know how to repeat this without being rude - I used an example of every day life to show
that in every instance at a cross-over with a light, the design is "doing it wrong".
Clearly, there are instances where "doing it wrong" are ok, because it's how THEY do it.

I have also repeated - several times - that the ONLY instance where "doing it right" gains
the advantage of an unobstructed view of oncoming traffic is when there's ONLY two cars.
EVERY other scenario imaginable contains an obstructed view of traffic. Except for when
it's just ONE car.
(note - NOT talking about a light)

The DISADVANTAGE of the "right way" is of course, when there are several cars either
way, you are not only screwed by an obstructed view but you gain the mess of opposing
cars BLOCKING each other's crossing. I have seen THIS mess many times at median crossings
in Charlotte Hall.
(note again - STILL not talking about a light)

Since the likelihood of such an instance at a median crossing is much less likely to occur with exactly two
cars - the logical way of doing it is the so-called "wrong way".
(note - STILL not talking about a light)
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
Well all the cross overs / cut throughs I've ever seen have a deceleration lane, so you may have vehicles lined up.
So if you do it the wrong way, you and the vehicle next to you are blocking each other and you still have the line up to see around.

Plus, if the motor vehicle handbook states the correct way to do it, who decides at the intersection which way it will be done?

FYSA, where did you learn to drive?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
You are not contending with the opposing side going straight.
Just wanted to add - I did address this in another post - you DO have to contend with the opposing
side going straight in a lighted intersection where you may turn without a green turn signal - as I mentioned
turning into the Elks club on southbound Chancellor's Run road. In that instance, the light is of no consequence
because either car turning may STILL contend with oncoming traffic when the light is green.

When the light is green at that intersection - it functions EXACTLY like a median crossover, with both
sides trying to cross. And in that instance, you MUST do it "the wrong way". And there's nothing painted
on the road, there.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Plus, if the motor vehicle handbook states the correct way to do it, who decides at the intersection which way it will be done?
The city planners and state bureaucrats who realize their rule book doesn't work.
When they realize it - they change the rules. I've already indicated several instances
where the "rules" aren't applied - because they're impractical, and impossible to
enforce.

We disagree. I disagree with the book, too. I pass people on the shoulder who are making left turns
on a single lane road. I'm supposed to wait - but I am not going to do that. I break the speed limit
and pass drivers who are swerving and likely to hit someone. I am not supposed to do that.
I go through lights on a rainy day when it's clear the guy tailgating me is going to end up in my
trunk if I hit the brakes. I don't leave the recommended number of car lengths in front of me when
on the Beltway - because drivers will ALWAYS shove in.

And I have an excellent driving record. Two tickets in about forty years of driving - I'm guessing
that's not bad.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
Is the MD driver's handbook legally binding, or simply advice?

I can't find anything in the MD traffic codes that specifies how it must be done.

I vote for the "turn left immediately" instead of "pass the other driver before turning left" because it prevents gridlock at the intersection.
 

Tech

Well-Known Member
Is the MD driver's handbook legally binding, or simply advice?

I can't find anything in the MD traffic codes that specifies how it must be done.

I vote for the "turn left immediately" instead of "pass the other driver before turning left" because it prevents gridlock at the intersection.
Also a good number of these crossovers are for u-turns only but they want you to do a do-si-do?
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I can't find anything in the MD traffic codes that specifies how it must be done.
That is interesting, maybe the OP is incorrect as far as Maryland is concerned. I admit I did not learn to drive in MD and their explanation on how to do a crossover was completely alien to me., but I had not even seen many U-Turns before I moved to MD, and never a traffic circle.
 
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