For all of those in Southern Md that have no clue how to get through a crossover

BernieP

Resident PIA
Just an observation: Another van pulls in behind him aiming for the "correct" side. The intersection is now blocked. Totally. With just 2 cars.
Had the first car done it "wrong", there would have been no blocked intersection.
Probably not marked on the deceleration lane is a stop line, the second NB vehicle should not have entered the intersection with the first vehicle still there.
The SB vehicle should be stopped at the line and yield the RoW to the vehicle in the intersection.
If one party decides they know better, then the next two vehicles would enter simultaneously and potentially collide head on, if one opted for method B for bad.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
The van driver in your scenario is not doing what they are supposed to.
You are technically correct. However, I stipulate that traffic flows more smoothly and more safely and with less delay when both drivers stay to the left edge of the crossover. As soon as a gap appears in opposing traffic, a left-hugging vehicle can immediately proceed with the u-turn or left turn they need to make. Each vehicle at the front of the line has good visibility (the other drivers' line of sight is irrelevant until they are at the front of the line), and each has the opportunity to proceed promptly, and there are no potentials for bumping fenders with opposing vehicles crossing and then turning.

By contrast, staying to the right until past the other vehicle usually creates gridlock (c.f. "human nature") and it requires a rather complicated dance of "who's got right of way." Whenever there are vehicles stacked up in the turn lanes approaching the crossover; there's no clear answer to "who got there first" and neither vehicle is to the right of the other. Thus the normal right-of-way rules are both irrelevant. So there is an increased chance that the vehicles will conflict trying to take the right of way, and even well-meaning, gracious drivers can end up gridlocked. That situation is totally avoided by hugging the left edge.

Note that someone's previous comment about how the left-hugging vehicles cause problems for a vehicle using the crossover to ENTER or CROSS the highway from a side street is (in my opinion) a red herring. In a situation where there are already vehicles stacked up in the crossover turn lane, those waiting vehicles are already in the roadway and thus definitely have the right-of-way. In that case, the side-street vehicles cannot legally enter the same intersection, and thus there is no chance for this situation to cause a conflict.

If the SHA really wanted to make it obvious, then a traffic control device could be implemented - a dashed line indicating correct motion, or a sign indicating what was mandatory. Since they have not chosen to do so, and there is no unambiguous language in the law, I believe it's incorrect to call the left-hugging method "wrong".
 
Probably not marked on the deceleration lane is a stop line, the second NB vehicle should not have entered the intersection with the first vehicle still there.
The SB vehicle should be stopped at the line and yield the RoW to the vehicle in the intersection.
This is true. No argument there. But in reality, it will never happen. The 2nd car will ALWAYS move forward to eliminate the space between vehicles. Human nature.
You are technically correct. However, I stipulate that traffic flows more smoothly and more safely and with less delay when both drivers stay to the left edge of the crossover. As soon as a gap appears in opposing traffic, a left-hugging vehicle can immediately proceed with the u-turn or left turn they need to make. Each vehicle at the front of the line has good visibility (the other drivers' line of sight is irrelevant until they are at the front of the line), and each has the opportunity to proceed promptly, and there are no potentials for bumping fenders with opposing vehicles crossing and then turning.
And this was exactly my point.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
Not a cross-over. but there was ANOTHER really bad accident at 235/Sotterley Road this afternoon.
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
Not a cross-over. but there was ANOTHER really bad accident at 235/Sotterley Road this afternoon.
Heard about that as I was leaving work, cut over to Rte 5 and a nice drive thru the countryside..should have stopped in and bugged DoWhat.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
Heard about that as I was leaving work, cut over to Rte 5 and a nice drive thru the countryside..should have stopped in and bugged DoWhat.
There was also one at St. Andrews/235 reported. I did get passed the guy in the center lane on 235 @ Rt 4 that lost his front tire. :lol:
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
There was also one at St. Andrews/235 reported. I did get passed the guy in the center lane on 235 @ Rt 4 that lost his front tire. :lol:
I went south outta my building and cut over to 5, 235N is always a pain, even worse with the slightest accident.
 

The Boss

Active Member
My biggest pet peev, "BLINKERS" or the lack of people using them!!! They were invented for good reason and they are not optional...............USE the DAMN THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

MiddleGround

Well-Known Member
You are technically correct. However, I stipulate that traffic flows more smoothly and more safely and with less delay when both drivers stay to the left edge of the crossover. As soon as a gap appears in opposing traffic, a left-hugging vehicle can immediately proceed with the u-turn or left turn they need to make. Each vehicle at the front of the line has good visibility (the other drivers' line of sight is irrelevant until they are at the front of the line), and each has the opportunity to proceed promptly, and there are no potentials for bumping fenders with opposing vehicles crossing and then turning.

By contrast, staying to the right until past the other vehicle usually creates gridlock (c.f. "human nature") and it requires a rather complicated dance of "who's got right of way." Whenever there are vehicles stacked up in the turn lanes approaching the crossover; there's no clear answer to "who got there first" and neither vehicle is to the right of the other. Thus the normal right-of-way rules are both irrelevant. So there is an increased chance that the vehicles will conflict trying to take the right of way, and even well-meaning, gracious drivers can end up gridlocked. That situation is totally avoided by hugging the left edge.

Note that someone's previous comment about how the left-hugging vehicles cause problems for a vehicle using the crossover to ENTER or CROSS the highway from a side street is (in my opinion) a red herring. In a situation where there are already vehicles stacked up in the crossover turn lane, those waiting vehicles are already in the roadway and thus definitely have the right-of-way. In that case, the side-street vehicles cannot legally enter the same intersection, and thus there is no chance for this situation to cause a conflict.

If the SHA really wanted to make it obvious, then a traffic control device could be implemented - a dashed line indicating correct motion, or a sign indicating what was mandatory. Since they have not chosen to do so, and there is no unambiguous language in the law, I believe it's incorrect to call the left-hugging method "wrong".
A long explanation to justify doing this the WRONG way.

Its not that complicated folks! There should only be 2 cars MAXIMUM in the median. Both to their far right sides of the median. Anything and anyone else in the median at any time is WRONG! Any other explanation or justification is wrong.

Of course, if you can provide documentation to prove me wrong... I'm happy to oblige you in reading it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Not a cross-over. but there was ANOTHER really bad accident at 235/Sotterley Road this afternoon.
JUST south of that intersection - is a cross-over I suspect you and I both use often - the one at Mervell Dean.
It has two deceleration lanes, no lines - but northbound can ONLY be used as a U-Turn - there's nothing to turn
left into from that direction.

So which way is "right" there?
 

glhs837

Power with Control
JUST south of that intersection - is a cross-over I suspect you and I both use often - the one at Mervell Dean.
It has two deceleration lanes, no lines - but northbound can ONLY be used as a U-Turn - there's nothing to turn
left into from that direction.

So which way is "right" there?

Same as the others. Use them all the same.
 

RoseRed

American Beauty
PREMO Member
JUST south of that intersection - is a cross-over I suspect you and I both use often - the one at Mervell Dean.
It has two deceleration lanes, no lines - but northbound can ONLY be used as a U-Turn - there's nothing to turn
left into from that direction.

So which way is "right" there?
I hardly ever use that one. If I'm heading south, I usually hop off at Dean Lumber. Or when leaving home, I usually follow MDRd all the way down to the light at 235.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
I hardly ever use that one. If I'm heading south, I usually hop off at Dean Lumber. Or when leaving home, I usually follow MDRd all the way down to the light at 235.
THAT one is the same, though (I use that one too).
Two deceleration lanes, northbound can only be used for U-Turn, as there's no street across the road.
 
Top