Starman3000m
New Member
There is a direct line to God - but you have to use your free will to call Him.
Once connected, you can air your complaints.
Genesis 22
- Thread starter Dougstermd
- Start date
There is a direct line to God - but you have to use your free will to call Him.
Once connected, you can air your complaints.
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
And more importantly, it's been proven to work!
Starman3000m
New Member
Call God on this one.
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
Wait, we have free will??
Oh, I see. God is not the author of existence then?
Please think this through. If God breated everything, then he created the laws that define how existence works. Either he is the ultimate author, or he isn't.
Which is it?
T
toppick08
Guest
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
1. According to the belief system, God is the First Cause, so says the theist. All actions come from God -- he began everything.
2. According to the belief system, there is a specific plan in place (leading to Armageddon). The plan requires specific acts to occur in order for it to unfold. It has been foreseen, therefore every move is known. Each play is already a done deal. If you wish to do something different from what has been ordained, you cannot. Do something. Did you do it? God saw that you would do that infinitely back in time. You have no ability to make God's foreknowledge wrong.
You were not even born when he saw you do it.
Free will in the Christian worldview is an illusion. It's quite simple, really.
Xaquin44
New Member
There is a direct line to God - but you have to use your free will to call Him.
Once connected, you can air your complaints.
according to you we don't have free will hehe
also, I stayed on the line for years, but never got a response ....
I left a message on the machine, but he still hasn't got back to me.
Ball is in his court.
T
toppick08
Guest
Xaquin44
New Member
Read them, and see how you fare......
Jesus was sent to see them executed......
that didn't address the quotes concerns.
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
And yet the silence, speaks volumes! This is not the fault of the theist, but the messy worldview they assert.
T
toppick08
Guest
Starman3000m
New Member
C'mon Xaquin, I have always maintained that mankind has free-will.
It's just that you keep getting confused between the meaning of predestination and pre-knowledge. (God's Omniscience)
And, by the way, the reason you haven't gotten a response from God is most likely that you've been calling the wrong number.
wxtornado
The Other White Meat
"God's Omniscience" implies he already knows how the game will be played out, and he does so infinitely in the past. Frankly, I don't know how to choose a path with "free will" when which path I will choose has already happened.
Again, it's an illusion of free will. I know that rankles some people, but it cannot be helped - that is what the worldview illustrates. And even the Bible supports it. Off the top of my head I can cite five places:
1. Where God hardens Pharoah's heart
2. Where Jesus specifically tells Caesar he gets his power from a higher authority (the analogy being God is interfacing with humans and giving them whatever it is they need to accomplish his goals)
3. Judas having no choice but to betray Jesus
4. Peter having no choice but to deny Jesus 3 times
5. Armageddon as told in Revelations.
So not only does the worldview force one into this conclusion, the very blueprint that defines the entire worldview (the bible) cites examples of it!
Xaquin44
New Member
that's fine. (wrong, but fine)
not at all. if it's fortold and can't be changed, it's predestination. You have said we can't change what god foresees (as have I) so it is predestination.
And, by the way, the reason you haven't gotten a response from God is most likely that you've been calling the wrong number.
but I thought there is only one truth I used the number in the bible. must have been a broken phone or the wrong denimination. Though I was assured many times over that it was the right one.
why, it's almost as if everyone is convinced they have the right idea and try to foist it on as many other people as possible.
crazy.
Starman3000m
New Member
It was your choice that made it happen!
Resulting consequences are the result of the decisions you make all the time.
Xaquin44
New Member
he just gave 5 examples straight from the bible showing things that you say god doesn't do.
seriously, you aren't even arguing at this point, but blindly flailing your vocabulary in hopes that something changes.
the bible states we are right.
Starman3000m
New Member
OK - You are the one who fullfilled your predestination.
You were not predestined by God to go to heaven or hell. The decision you made during your lifetime is what determined your eternal destiny.
Pre-destination by God would be that he willed you to go to one place or the other. You are the one who determines your fate.
Gotta sign off for now - later
Xaquin44
New Member
OK - You are the one who fullfilled your predestination.
You were not predestined by God to go to heaven or hell. The decision you made during your lifetime is what determined your eternal destiny.
Pre-destination by God would be that he willed you to go to one place or the other. You are the one who determines your fate.
Gotta sign off for now - later
does god know where I will end up?
have I finished my lifetime?
if one is yes and 2 is no then it is predestination.
the reason being that what god knows can't be changed.
simple.
T
toppick08
Guest