Gospel of Inclusion.

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You are full of new age nonsense.

I do like the "new age" stuff and I believe that God wants people to grow and mature like entering the 21st century.

New age link HERE, and HERE.

Having tolerance and respect for others are high virtues.

I find the "new age" stuff to be very beneficial.

It is not your belief that indicates a lack of sanity. Anyone can believe something that is totally wrong. It is your intransigence in the face of overwhelming evidence that refutes your belief that is insane.

Sane people, when presented with credible overwhelming evidence that refutes one's belief and proffers a viable alternative, most often modify their stance or at least consider that their belief may be incorrect. It is your intransigence in the face of such evidence from the Word of God, the Bible, that indicates your lack of saneness.

So 2A is a pretend psychiatrist passing out diagnosis based on his interpretation of the Bible.

The fact - and the point remains, THAT :

A person believing people are burning in a Hell in pain and torment is normal healthy sanity,

while me telling that God loves all His children and everyone gets full forgiveness and salvation - and that is the abnormal insanity.

Of course that psychiatric diagnosis is because I interpret the same Bible differently then the Orthodox dictate it.

And such as 2A even says people are tormented in fire Hell for thinking sin - not doing it but just THINKING sin gets them the torture for everlasting eternity and that is his sanity and not mine and it is not what Jesus taught either.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I do like the "new age" stuff and I believe that God wants people to grow and mature like entering the 21st century.

New age link HERE, and HERE.

Having tolerance and respect for others are high virtues.

I find the "new age" stuff to be very beneficial. So 2A is a pretend psychiatrist passing out diagnosis based on his interpretation of the Bible.

The fact - and the point remains, THAT :

A person believing people are burning in a Hell in pain and torment is normal healthy sanity,

while me telling that God loves all His children and everyone gets full forgiveness and salvation - and that is the abnormal insanity.

Of course that psychiatric diagnosis is because I interpret the same Bible differently then the Orthodox dictate it.

And such as 2A even says people are tormented in fire Hell for thinking sin - not doing it but just THINKING sin gets them the torture for everlasting eternity and that is his sanity and not mine and it is not what Jesus taught either.

Why do you persist in your lies? Jesus is the one who said that thinking a sin is as guilty as committing the sin. It is in the Bible.

Matthew 5:27-28

27"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';

28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If you are not insane, then you have an inability to read and comprehend what you read. It may be both.

 

[Xaquin44]

If you are not insane, then you have an inability to read and comprehend what you read. It may be both.

Matthew 5:21-24

21"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'

22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

23"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

It is this.It is really, really hard to not violate that one when it comes to JPC.

too difficult for you apparently. I guess 'not typing insults' is a difficult thing for a man of god?

I mean it does involve a lot of .... um .... not typing.

hmmmm

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Why do you persist in your lies? Jesus is the one who said that thinking a sin is as guilty as committing the sin. It is in the Bible.

If you are not insane, then you have an inability to read and comprehend what you read. It may be both.

Jesus did say it was a sin to think it and so it is,

but He is not burning people in Hell for it and that is not only the point but it is the repeated point of this whole thread.

It is you that twist the words to make your false claims.

You and your Orthodoxy that scare people with torture and torment in fire but Jesus did not say that.

It being a sin does not change the fact that Jesus paid the full penalty for sin for everybody and Jesus paid it in full so the sin does not equate to that false and mystical Hell of your heteful immagination.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Jesus did say it was a sin to think it and so it is,

but He is not burning people in Hell for it and that is not only the point but it is the repeated point of this whole thread.

It is you that twist the words to make your false claims.

You and your Orthodoxy that scare people with torture and torment in fire but Jesus did not say that.

It being a sin does not change the fact that Jesus paid the full penalty for sin for everybody and Jesus paid it in full so the sin does not equate to that false and mystical Hell of your heteful immagination.

You are wrong again. Jesus did say very plainly that the unrighteous would be thrown into the fire.

Matthew 13:36-52

36Then He left the crowds and went into the house And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."

37And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

40"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

41"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43"Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father He who has ears, let him hear.
Hidden Treasure
44"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
A Costly Pearl
45"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,

46and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.
A Dragnet
47"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;

48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.

49"So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

51"Have you understood all these things?" They said to Him, "Yes."

52And Jesus said to them, "Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old."

Jesus paid the price for all who accept the gift of salvation.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You are wrong again. Jesus did say very plainly that the unrighteous would be thrown into the fire.

Jesus paid the price for all who accept the gift of salvation.

The so-called "lake of fire" means fire that cleans and purifies and not brutal torture for all enternity.

That claim that people must accept the gift of Jesus is completely contrary to the unconditional love of God.

The idea of pain and torment and misery in a Hell fire is a man made concept while the message from God and delivered by Jesus was and is to love thy enemies link HERE.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The so-called "lake of fire" means fire that cleans and purifies and not brutal torture for all enternity.

That claim that people must accept the gift of Jesus is completely contrary to the unconditional love of God.

The idea of pain and torment and misery in a Hell fire is a man made concept while the message from God and delivered by Jesus was and is to love thy enemies link HERE.

That is not what the Bible says.

Revelation 20:7-15

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Judgment at the Throne of God
11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

That is not what the Bible says.

Well I told what my beliefs are and I stand by what I posted as correct and true,

and you have given your beliefs that you believe are correct.

So I say this is fine by me, and we do not need to be in agreement.

I still go to Churches that have those same wrong beliefs and that is just a sad reality.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You really are way out in left field. Its a shame too, because with the kind of hardheadedness you have to keep going regardless of ridicule Jesus really could have used you for good.

Part of my training comes from being the sixth of 12 siblings and we all fought and competed like animals.

And I see my efforts as promoting the right way so do not count Jesus out of my efforts.

 

[PsyOps]

Jesus did say it was a sin to think it and so it is,

but He is not burning people in Hell for it and that is not only the point but it is the repeated point of this whole thread.

It isn’t God that is burning people in hell. When someone commits murder knowing what the penalty (execution) is, is it the law’s fault for executing this person or is it the person’s fault for committing the crime? You know going in that not believing is going to have the consequence of eternal damnation.

Which begs the question… If it’s not required to believe in order to go to heaven, then why do you believe? Why bother?

 

[PsyOps]

The so-called "lake of fire" means fire that cleans and purifies and not brutal torture for all enternity.

That claim that people must accept the gift of Jesus is completely contrary to the unconditional love of God.

The idea of pain and torment and misery in a Hell fire is a man made concept while the message from God and delivered by Jesus was and is to love thy enemies link HERE.

You still aren’t getting the “unconditional love” thing. Because there are consequences to not believing is not an indication of God’s conditions on His love for us; it’s our placing conditions on loving Him. God is extending a FREE gift to us for salvation. This GIFT is Christ. In order for us to obtain this gift we have to receive it. If someone gives you money it’s not yours until you actually take it. If you refuse it, then it isn’t really yours. It’s like eating. The food is in front of you; it’s yours to eat. But it doesn’t become a part of you until you eat it. If you refuse to eat it you will certain die of starvation; a horrible and painful death. The unconditional part of this is God places the gift on the table; it’s always there. It sits there always until you decide to take it. As long as you decide not to take it, it remains on the table. He has given it to you without any conditions; those that don’t believe haven’t actually taken it. And if you don’t take it the consequence is… well you know already. And the choice is yours not God’s. So He is not torturing you. It is you that is accepting the consequence of not accepting Him. I mean not only is this biblically true but it is logical. It makes sense that if something is placed in front of you, if you refuse it, then you don’t get it. The other logical part is: Why would God force you to have something you don’t want? If god wanted to force it on us he could; but he doesn’t. He offers it. We either chose or not.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

It isn’t God that is burning people in hell. When someone commits murder knowing what the penalty (execution) is, is it the law’s fault for executing this person or is it the person’s fault for committing the crime? You know going in that not believing is going to have the consequence of eternal damnation.

Many Countries in this World have stopped execution as a form of punishment and some States in the USA have stopped executions and even our Maryland might stop the barbaric practice soon because mankind is slowly growing out of our barbaric past brutality concepts.

The idea of people burning in torment of a mystical Hell is just a man-made idea based in people's acceptance of internalized cruelties.

Every person will be saved and our Father God will not abuse any of His children - not even one will stay lost.

Which begs the question… If it’s not required to believe in order to go to heaven, then why do you believe? Why bother?

Believe because it is real and it is true.

The blessings and power and rewards within the truths are so great that it surpasses any thought of death or of cruel punishment.

People in bondage will work by constant force but free people will act with energy and gusto.

It use to be thought that the Egyption Pyramids were built by slaves but now they finally figured out that the workers build the Pyramids out of pride and enthusiasm.

We are not to be the servants of Heaven - we are the children of God with rightful claim as prince and princess to the Kingdom.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I mean not only is this biblically true but it is logical. It makes sense that if something is placed in front of you, if you refuse it, then you don’t get it. The other logical part is: Why would God force you to have something you don’t want? If god wanted to force it on us he could; but he doesn’t. He offers it. We either chose or not.

God will force salvation onto us all and we do not have the option of saying no.

Did anyone ask not to be born? No. Does any one ask to be resurrected? Instead we could be left alone dead in the grave. God is forcing the Judgement Day and everyone will get saved whether anyone likes it or not.

We are the children of God and not His servants or His panws, and the children do not say no to our Father God.

Salvation is not a matter of punishment but of rescue.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The idea of people burning in torment of a mystical Hell is just a man-made idea based in people's acceptance of internalized cruelties.

Every person will be saved and our Father God will not abuse any of His children - not even one will stay lost. Believe because it is real and it is true.

Lies.

God will force salvation onto us all and we do not have the option of saying no.

Did anyone ask not to be born? No. Does any one ask to be resurrected? Instead we could be left alone dead in the grave. God is forcing the Judgement Day and everyone will get saved whether anyone likes it or not.

Lies.

Salvation is not a matter of punishment but of rescue.

True. But Salvation is a gift through grace. You must accept a gift. If you do not, you do not have the gift even though it is offered.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Lies.

Lies.True. But Salvation is a gift through grace. You must accept a gift. If you do not, you do not have the gift even though it is offered.

Well I accept the gift of salvation so that makes me saved too.

But since I believe everyone gets saved too then does that belief doom me to burn in Hell anyway?

Or is it okay to believe that God loves His enemies and that Hell does not exist and still be saved?

Of course I know the correct answers to those questions, but does the Christian thought police demand that we accept people burning in Hell for all eternity as part of our salvation requirement?

Or can I believe differently then the Orthodox and still be saved?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well I accept the gift of salvation so that makes me saved too.

But since I believe everyone gets saved too then does that belief doom me to burn in Hell anyway?

Or is it okay to believe that God loves His enemies and that Hell does not exist and still be saved?

Of course I know the correct answers to those questions, but does the Christian thought police demand that we accept people burning in Hell for all eternity as part of our salvation requirement?

Or can I believe differently then the Orthodox and still be saved?

If you know Jesus as Savior and Lord then you will enter God's kingdom.

God does love His enemies. He created satan. But hell, the lake of fire, does exist and satn and those whose name is not in the Book of Life will be cast into it. Can you believe it does not and still be a Christian? I am not the judge of that. You have to take that up with God.

Jesus said you must have the faith of a child. That is blind faith. God's word says it. A Christian must believe it. Again. I am not your judge. God knows your heart. He will judge your error.

In the meantime, if you insist on posting things that contradict the Bible, then I must insist on calling them the heresies that they are.

 

[PsyOps]

God will force salvation onto us all and we do not have the option of saying no.

Then why did Jesus say “Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned”? This is a choice. Why did Christ give us the choice? If so many chose not to believe why would God force something on them they don’t want? Why would He even give us a choice to believe or not believe? Please explain this cruel game God is playing with us.

Did anyone ask not to be born? No. Does any one ask to be resurrected? Instead we could be left alone dead in the grave. God is forcing the Judgement Day and everyone will get saved whether anyone likes it or not.

Life is also a gift that not everyone gets. Some are born and die in a short time. Some don’t even make it out of the womb. Some (sadly) are aborted. Some are taken in a car accident at 16. Do we know God’s will? I think not. For those that are given the choice and can make that choice and refuse to accept that choice, the consequences are clear.

We are the children of God and not His servants or His panws, and the children do not say no to our Father God.

Jesus was God’s "pawn" (to use your word). He served God’s purpose. And we, when we become Christians we serve God as pawns for his purpose. If you are not seeing this then perhaps you need to reevaluate.

Salvation is not a matter of punishment but of rescue.

Yes salvation is a matter of rescue from condemnation. And where there is no salvation there is condemnation. This statement you just posted proves everything I have been saying. You should read it real carefully.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Then why did Jesus say “Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned”? This is a choice. Why did Christ give us the choice? If so many chose not to believe why would God force something on them they don’t want? Why would He even give us a choice to believe or not believe? Please explain this cruel game God is playing with us.

He is saying to choose today for today.

We are to do it and live it now - here in this world now - the work and the job is now in this life and not after death.

Jesus gave an immediate message that applies immediately and not later after death.

It is a self severing and self righteous pretense that things are okay for now because God is in control now, and worry about after death as if we get to choose for after dead.

The exact opposite is true - worry about now for the after-life is none of our concern as God has taken care of the after life and we need to care for the present world now.

Life is also a gift that not everyone gets. Some are born and die in a short time. Some don’t even make it out of the womb. Some (sadly) are aborted. Some are taken in a car accident at 16. Do we know God’s will? I think not. For those that are given the choice and can make that choice and refuse to accept that choice, the consequences are clear.

There is no clear after-life, no "clear" Hell, those that die without choices are not burning in torment.

Jesus was God’s "pawn" (to use your word). He served God’s purpose. And we, when we become Christians we serve God as pawns for his purpose. If you are not seeing this then perhaps you need to reevaluate.

It appears that you are seeing yourself in far to grandious a style.

You and "Christians" are not "pawns" of God.

Yes salvation is a matter of rescue from condemnation. And where there is no salvation there is condemnation. This statement you just posted proves everything I have been saying. You should read it real carefully.

It is because you put your deffinition to my words as you do to the Bible's words.

"Condemnation" does not mean God is torturing and tormenting His enemies in the fires of a Hell.

Your self imposed deffinition to the words is where we differ.

 

[PsyOps]

He is saying to choose today for today.

We are to do it and live it now - here in this world now - the work and the job is now in this life and not after death.

Jesus gave an immediate message that applies immediately and not later after death.

It is a self severing and self righteous pretense that things are okay for now because God is in control now, and worry about after death as if we get to choose for after dead.

The exact opposite is true - worry about now for the after-life is none of our concern as God has taken care of the after life and we need to care for the present world now.

So, what’s the purpose of doing anything here and now? Do you know how many Christians I’ve known that did it right for the “here and now” and died a horrible death from cancer? So, what are you trying to tell me, that there is something to gain here and now by doing “the work and the job” here and now? Why don’t you tell me how well your life is going by doing it right “here and now”?

It appears that you are seeing yourself in far to grandious a style.

You and "Christians" are not "pawns" of God.

Is that how it appears to you? For me it’s an honor and a complete blessing to call myself a servant to God. Nothing “grandiose”. But it is special and uplifting. I want God to use me for His purpose; from that aspect I am His pawn. You, on the other hand, are self-serving and intend to manipulate God for your own purpose. You twist his Word around to suit your own selfish reasons.

It is because you put your deffinition to my words as you do to the Bible's words.

"Condemnation" does not mean God is torturing and tormenting His enemies in the fires of a Hell.

Your self imposed deffinition to the words is where we differ.

There you go again. You’re just not paying attention. I have said it and will said it again; it is NOT God that is torturing and tormenting those that do not accept Christ. It is those that do not accept Christ that are condemning themselves by making that conscious choice. Condemnation means judgment. The Bible has that word everywhere and you should pay more attention to it. The price for not believing is condemnation or judgment. If I tell my kid if he touches the fragile lamp he will be grounded in his room for a week; when he finally touches it and breaks it does that mean I condemned him, or did he condemn himself by disobeying me? I made the rule, he broke it. God made the rule “accept Christ or be condemned”. If you chose not to follow that rule you face the consequences. You bring judgment on yourself.

Your problem is, you think everything is absolutely for free. The gift is free for the taking, but you have to take it. If you don’t take it then how can you claim to have it? You want something out of nothing. You don’t want rules. You want to manipulate everything to fit your purpose. The child support laws is your pet peeve. You failed to pay child support so now you are bent on getting into Congress to change that to fit your own personal agenda. This thing with God is the same. You don’t want to have to comply to the rules set in front of you. You want to establish your own rules in order to make it easier for you. You may be able to run into Congress and get your way with the child support laws, but you can’t get into God’s court and change his rules. He alone will decide your fate. And there are two paths: one you want to go and one you don’t. That’s just the way it is, and you have not accepted this yet.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

So, what’s the purpose of doing anything here and now? Do you know how many Christians I’ve known that did it right for the “here and now” and died a horrible death from cancer? So, what are you trying to tell me, that there is something to gain here and now by doing “the work and the job” here and now? Why don’t you tell me how well your life is going by doing it right “here and now”?

Doing nothing is far from doing right.

Most of Christianity teaches the people to be passive and submissive sheep and call that "doing right".

Jesus instructed His followers to take up their own cross and fight for right and social justice and for truth.

My life is very difficult and demanding because I follow the commands as best as I can.

We all must die and those "Christians" have no superior claim in their dying.

Jesus told us all the way to die with honor and glory by following the great martyr.