Gospel of Inclusion.

[2ndAmendment]

I had not realized that was the error.

The governing "authorities" does not mean persons but the demands of gov are the authorities.

Like President Nixon broke the rules and lost his governing power because the person Nixon like every person (as the text says) is subject to the authority of gov.

It is saying the authority of gov and not the authority of the person in gov.

Hitler was only a person and Hitler abused the authority of gov and Hitler destroyed himself and his Country accordingly.

Because the authority of gov is not the authority of the person in gov authority.

A person in gov must not abuse the authority and when the person does abuse the authority there is repercussions.

That is what Romans 13:1 is talking about.

Wrong again, but what is new.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I had not realized that was the error.

The governing "authorities" does not mean persons but the demands of gov are the authorities.

Like President Nixon broke the rules and lost his governing power because the person Nixon like every person (as the text says) is subject to the authority of gov.

It is saying the authority of gov and not the authority of the person in gov.

Hitler was only a person and Hitler abused the authority of gov and Hitler destroyed himself and his Country accordingly.

Because the authority of gov is not the authority of the person in gov authority.

A person in gov must not abuse the authority and when the person does abuse the authority there is repercussions.

That is what Romans 13:1 is talking about.

God is not a respecter of persons but only the gov that does right, see text below.

Acts 10:34-35.

34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Link HERE.

Of course God is not a dis-respecter of persons either, but when a gov official abuses their authority then that person will pay the penalty.

And the penalty is here and in their present time and not after death.

 

[PsyOps]

That is far from what I said, and you are simply doing the all-or-nothing nonsense.

Like if Jonah was not swallowed by a BIG fish then Jesus did not exist, which is foolish.

You said “Revelation does not have much credibility. If one book has no credibility, how can any of them have credibility? What is your measure for credibility? What are you using to come to this conclusion? Your Jonah comparison doesn’t fit because, according to the Bible, Jonah WAS swallowed by the big fish. And Jesus did exist. And Revelations is an explanation of the end of times. It is an all-encompassing book that you can’t just weed out what doesn’t fit into your own personal agenda. You’re constantly accusing us of misinterpreting the Bible while you are the one that is doing just that.

If Revelations is a phony then the whole Bible is worthless - and that is not true.

God is in life / in reality, and God is not the Bible and God is not IN the Bible.

The Bible is an all-inclusive book; from beginning to end. The Bible isn't about God being in it or God being the Bible. The Bible was written as an account of God’s purpose not just through history but also what is to come. You have provided quote after quote from the Bible. Why would you do this if you believe God is not IN the Bible?

Protestants have made a false idol out of the Bible and Jesus told us to seek out the truth.

I have seem many interpretations of the Bible and “seeking of the truth” but I have never seen an interpretation such as yours.

When I researched the subject it became really kind of easy to find out the true parts and separating truth from fiction makes the Bible a hundred times more interesting.

I find the small truths to be so very powerful that the large non-truths to be worthless information anyway.

And I have asked you before: Specifically which parts are true and which parts are fictitious. What are your sources for telling you this? You have yet to answer (I mean except for Revelation being a complete fraud).

If the Bible did not exist and maybe destroyed completely in the first century then the salvation of Jesus would still be true and effective and people today would not be any more uninformed then those that believe our loving Father God would burn people in a Hell.

Ah, but the part you ignore in all this is, this exemplifies the power of God to have kept this WORD alive all these years making it the largest faith on earth.

That false interpretation of God lives in an “infallible book” whiles the true God lives out here in the real world.

Then why do you quote it so much?

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

And I have asked you before: Specifically which parts are true and which parts are fictitious. What are your sources for telling you this? You have yet to answer (I mean except for Revelation being a complete fraud).

Biblical Criticism link HERE and if you want to learn about it then take the names given in that link to the library St. Mary's County Library, Leonardtown, MD and find the old books.

The Catholic explaination of "Higher Criticism" of the Bible is in the link HERE and particularly go down to the "The Johannine Writings" where the Book of Revelations is called the "Apocalypse" : "The criticism of Apocalypse is still in an immature stage. There is much diversity of view as to its author, the Anglican school inclining to St. John. It has been recently proposed that the book is a Jewish apocalypse retouched by a Christian; so Vischer, Harnack. Nearly all critics acknowledge that there is much apocalyptic element in it, admitting that some of its visions in a veiled manner depict historical situations under the guise of events to come." That Catholic link above does word itself tensely.

Then why do you quote it so much?

The Bible is still a great book with wonderful messages in it and it does tell about God.

To seek the truth means to dig through un-truths.

 

[2ndAmendment]

:..
To seek the truth means to dig through un-truths.

There are no untruths in the Bible like there are in your posts and the man-made stuff you prefer to God's word.

 

[PsyOps]

Biblical Criticism link HERE and if you want to learn about it then take the names given in that link to the library St. Mary's County Library, Leonardtown, MD and find the old books.

The Catholic explaination of "Higher Criticism" of the Bible is in the link HERE and particularly go down to the "The Johannine Writings" where the Book of Revelations is called the "Apocalypse" : "The criticism of Apocalypse is still in an immature stage. There is much diversity of view as to its author, the Anglican school inclining to St. John. It has been recently proposed that the book is a Jewish apocalypse retouched by a Christian; so Vischer, Harnack. Nearly all critics acknowledge that there is much apocalyptic element in it, admitting that some of its visions in a veiled manner depict historical situations under the guise of events to come." That Catholic link above does word itself tensely. The Bible is still a great book with wonderful messages in it and it does tell about God.

To seek the truth means to dig through un-truths.

You are the type that wants to find fault in everything; something to criticize. You will go to great lengths to prove that, on a bright sunny day, the sky is not blue. Some things just are. I have learned to accept that in God’s Word. You have not. This contrarianism isn’t just within these religious discussions. This is your way within everything.

And the arrogance in all this is that you seem to have found yourself believing you know more of the truth than God; that somehow you are going to disprove God as the ultimate truth; that there are flaws in his Word. You have convinced yourself that not even God is able to inspire His own Word through others and bring that truth to us.

There is only one truth. You either accept it or you don’t.

You don’t.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You are the type that wants to find fault in everything; something to criticize. You will go to great lengths to prove that, on a bright sunny day, the sky is not blue. Some things just are. I have learned to accept that in God’s Word. You have not. This contrarianism isn’t just within these religious discussions. This is your way within everything.

And the arrogance in all this is that you seem to have found yourself believing you know more of the truth than God; that somehow you are going to disprove God as the ultimate truth; that there are flaws in his Word. You have convinced yourself that not even God is able to inspire His own Word through others and bring that truth to us.

There is only one truth. You either accept it or you don’t.

You don’t.

Well I take criticism too, and I even like criticism, and criticizing is both negative and positive and I like both ways because I want the hard truths and not just the comfortable pretty words.

The Bible can take criticism too, so can God, and Jesus takes criticizing, and in fact we all dish it out too.

I criticize when I feel it is called for, and the Bible has its own words of criticism, as does God and Jesus criticize others in both positive and in negative ways.

Those that built their foundation on sand takes great effort to keep their houses from falling down.

But for those seeking the fuller truths then there is never just one truth because that way one gets stuck.

 

[PsyOps]

But for those seeking the fuller truths then there is never just one truth because that way one gets stuck.

This sentence proves you are not interested in the truth. You are only interested in the "truth" that you are able to define for yourself. You are attempting to go beyond the truth and redefine it as something else. In this case "the FULLER TRUTH". What the heck is the "fuller truth"? The truth is simply that; "THE TRUTH". It can’t be fuller than what it already is?

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

This sentence proves you are not interested in the truth. You are only interested in the "truth" that you are able to define for yourself. You are attempting to go beyond the truth and redefine it as something else. In this case "the FULLER TRUTH". What the heck is the "fuller truth"? The truth is simply that; "THE TRUTH". It can’t be fuller than what it already is?

It deffinately is best when one can define the truth(s) them-self.

The fact is that some people (like PsyOps, and 2A) claim they know the "truth" and they shut out any corrections.

Many people and Churches teach about Jesus but do not teach the message that Jesus taught.

Jesus did NOT give the simple message to believe in Himself and be saved and the Bible was not even written at that time.

The message that Jesus brought and not a message about Jesus.

A new book called the "Scandalous Gospel of Jesus" is telling about that same message the Jesus taught link HERE.

The answer to "what is the fuller truth?" is that is the truth discovered after one moves out of their rut.

 

[PsyOps]

It deffinately is best when one can define the truth(s) them-self.

The fact is that some people (like PsyOps, and 2A) claim they know the "truth" and they shut out any corrections.

Many people and Churches teach about Jesus but do not teach the message that Jesus taught.

And you CLAIM to know the truth too. Problem is you have everyone telling you that you have it wrong, yet you remain in denial. Your perception is EVERYONE out there is wrong and JPC is right.

Jesus did NOT give the simple message to believe in Himself and be saved and the Bible was not even written at that time.

This shows you can’t even make sense out of it yourself. I can’t even make sense out of this statement. Are you claiming that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write their Gospels? Are you claiming they were not actually there with Jesus? Are you claiming that, because they did not write their witness of Christ, at the time He was alive, that it’s not valid? What is your point here, other than to disclaim the Bible (the same Bible you conveniently quote over and over)?

The message that Jesus brought and not a message about Jesus.

A new book called the "Scandalous Gospel of Jesus" is telling about that same message the Jesus taught

What the heck have we been talking about in this thread? We have been discussing salvation. Not Jesus, THE MAN, but the salvation he brought. THAT is His message. THAT is the message you are not getting. When I go to church I hear that same message. I don’t hear the preacher talking about how tall Jesus was, and whether he had a beard or if his breath stunk or whether he was attracted to women or not. I hear the message of His salvation. Man you have things so twisted around. And so does this Peter J. Gomes.

The answer to "what is the fuller truth?" is that is the truth discovered after one moves out of their rut.

Well, it doesn’t seem to be working for you. If you want to know “the fuller truth” you have to know the simple truth first.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

And you CLAIM to know the truth too. Problem is you have everyone telling you that you have it wrong, yet you remain in denial. Your perception is EVERYONE out there is wrong and JPC is right.

Perhaps one might see you and 2A and T_p as speaking for "EVERYONE" but the fact is that the very first post of this thread shows a Christian Bishop and his entire congregation telling the Hell is not real and everyone gets saved.

Plus there are many other groups and Churches that denounce the barbaric ideals of Hell and Orthodoxies.

So you do not speak for EVERYONE and everyone is not in opposition to me or my beliefs.

This shows you can’t even make sense out of it yourself. I can’t even make sense out of this statement. Are you claiming that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not write their Gospels? Are you claiming they were not actually there with Jesus? Are you claiming that, because they did not write their witness of Christ, at the time He was alive, that it’s not valid? What is your point here, other than to disclaim the Bible (the same Bible you conveniently quote over and over)?

The point is that the written Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, tell about Jesus link as much or even more about the person Jesus then about the message that Jesus was teaching link HERE.

There is a big difference in preaching "about Jesus" and Jesus' own message about the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in Heaven.

What the heck have we been talking about in this thread? We have been discussing salvation. Not Jesus, THE MAN, but the salvation he brought. THAT is His message. THAT is the message you are not getting. When I go to church I hear that same message. I don’t hear the preacher talking about how tall Jesus was, and whether he had a beard or if his breath stunk or whether he was attracted to women or not. I hear the message of His salvation.

Jesus did not teach about salvation because Jesus said the people were saved already and just do not know it link HERE,

what He did teach was the Kingdom of God link because that was His message and not about Himself.

Man you have things so twisted around. And so does this Peter J. Gomes.

See you have to disqualify another person to make your "everybody" but Peter Gomes is just one more of many that see the truths that have been hidden under Orthodoxy.

It is not that I am against "everybody" because it is your kind that must be against anybody ANY-BODY or any person that fails to agree with your violent perception of God.

Well, it doesn’t seem to be working for you.

It would work better for me if I had not been a screwed up person for my first 30 years and repentance has been slow and difficult for me.

Considering that I got thrown out of prison as homeless and destitute in 2003 and now I am running for the US Congress then I see some things working well for me - and I thank God for it.

If you want to know “the fuller truth” you have to know the simple truth first.

I actually agree with this comment completely, except I would make the "truth" plural as one must learn the "simple truths" first and foremost.

 

[2ndAmendment]

... Hell is not real and everyone gets saved. ...

Lie. And since it is a lie it does not matter who says it is true since the Bible says it is a lie.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Lie. And since it is a lie it does not matter who says it is true since the Bible says it is a lie.

Just so happens that I do not see the Bible calling it a lie - as I only see 2A doing that.

In fact I see the Bible showing everyone getting saved and no eternal "Hell" see link HERE.

Our "2A" is not the spokesperson for the Bible, thank God.

 

[camily]

Just so happens that I do not see the Bible calling it a lie - as I only see 2A doing that.

In fact I see the Bible showing everyone getting saved and no eternal "Hell" see link HERE.

Our "2A" is not the spokesperson for the Bible, thank God.

The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Beware of the (L)false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (M)ravenous wolves.
16"You will (N)know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So (O)every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"(P)Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them (Q)by their fruits.

21"(R)Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"(S)Many will say to Me on (T)that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (U)DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"(K)Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Beware of the (L)false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are (M)ravenous wolves.
16"You will (N)know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So (O)every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"(P)Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them (Q)by their fruits.

21"(R)Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"(S)Many will say to Me on (T)that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; (U)DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Since you do not give any comment of your own there - then it is hard to tell if you are agreeing with me or trying to say some thing otherwise.

But as for the Bible verses quoted above - many people do get such words confused with meanings of the Orthodox "Hell" and that is not being said there at all.

It saying that people now and on Judgement Day will claim to be with "Christ" and "Christ-ian" and Jesus will tell those that they are not.

The difference there is that Jesus is not the Father God, and Jesus specifically told what the "Father which is in heaven" does to God's enemies link it HERE.

Jesus has ways of telling people now that they are frauds and on Judgement Day Jesus will tell them then that they are fakes but then comes forgiveness and salvation to everyone as the truth is made known and everyone will believe at the Judgement Day and then every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess per Romans 14:11 link it in context HERE.

The problem is in some persons claiming to be with Christ and "Christian" and they are deceived.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Since you do not give any comment of your own there - then it is hard to tell if you are agreeing with me or trying to say some thing otherwise.

But as for the Bible verses quoted above - many people do get such words confused with meanings of the Orthodox "Hell" and that is not being said there at all.

It saying that people now and on Judgement Day will claim to be with "Christ" and "Christ-ian" and Jesus will tell those that they are not.

The difference there is that Jesus is not the Father God, and Jesus specifically told what the "Father which is in heaven" does to God's enemies link it HERE.

Jesus has ways of telling people now that they are frauds and on Judgement Day Jesus will tell them then that they are fakes but then comes forgiveness and salvation to everyone as the truth is made known and everyone will believe at the Judgement Day and then every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess per Romans 14:11 link it in context HERE.

The problem is in some persons claiming to be with Christ and "Christian" and they are deceived.

You are the one that is confused. Jesus was plainly saying that not everyone is saved. Those verses are not the only verses where Jesus said that. You are a fraud and are perverted and pervert the word of God, even the portion you say you believe.

 

[PsyOps]

Jesus did not teach about salvation because Jesus said the people were saved already and just do not know it link HERE,

what He did teach was the Kingdom of God link because that was His message and not about Himself.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Jesus preached endlessly about salvation, and how we MUST ACCEPT HIM! It was very much about HIM. Here:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life… John 3:16

EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES JPC! In other words you must make the choice to believe. You have to actually do something. BELIEVE!

Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."… John 3:3

"Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, 3 you will not enter the kingdom of heaven”… Matthew 18:3

YOU MUST DO SOMETHING. BECOME LIKE CHILDREN. In other words, become innocent like children. YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me… John 14:6

YOU CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN ACCEPT THROUGH JESUS! Refer back to Joh 3:16. YOU MUST DO SOMETHING! YOU MUST BELIEVE!

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God… John 1:12

WHICH MEANS YOU MUST DO SOMETHING. YOU MUST ACCEPT CHRIST!

You must know, my brothers, that through him forgiveness of sins is being proclaimed to you, (and) in regard to everything from which you could not be justified under the law of Moses, in him every believer is justified… Acts 13:38-39

IN HIM EVERY BELIEVER IS JUSTIFIED. IN OTHER WORDS YOU MUST BELIEVE. YOU MUST BE A BELIEVER. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE DO NOT GET IN.

The New Testament is ALL about salvation. THAT IS ALL IT IS ABOUT… OUR SALVATION THROUGH BELIEVING IN CHRIST. Your implication that it is not about that shows your complete and conscious lack of understanding of this basic concept.

It would work better for me if I had not been a screwed up person for my first 30 years and repentance has been slow and difficult for me.

I wish this hadn't happened to you too. I believe you would think with a lot more clarity. From this standpoint I do pray for you.

I actually agree with this comment completely, except I would make the "truth" plural as one must learn the "simple truths" first and foremost.

The truth is simply that... THE TRUTH.

 

[Marie]

EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES .

I take it one step forward and thats to allow him lordship to your life complete surrender. Thats the hardest part!

Anything else is an attempt to salvation on our terms and is no salvation at all.
We are to evaluate ourselves on a regular basis
Check this out
By John Mcauthur

http://home.md.metrocast.net/coiac/Dale.mp3

 

[Xaquin44]

Complete surrender?

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Jesus preached endlessly about salvation, and how we MUST ACCEPT HIM! It was very much about HIM. Here:

EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES JPC! In other words you must make the choice to believe. You have to actually do something. BELIEVE!

YOU MUST DO SOMETHING. BECOME LIKE CHILDREN. In other words, become innocent like children. YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

YOU CANNOT GO TO HEAVEN ACCEPT THROUGH JESUS! Refer back to Joh 3:16. YOU MUST DO SOMETHING! YOU MUST BELIEVE!

WHICH MEANS YOU MUST DO SOMETHING. YOU MUST ACCEPT CHRIST!

IN HIM EVERY BELIEVER IS JUSTIFIED. IN OTHER WORDS YOU MUST BELIEVE. YOU MUST BE A BELIEVER. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE DO NOT GET IN.

The New Testament is ALL about salvation. THAT IS ALL IT IS ABOUT… OUR SALVATION THROUGH BELIEVING IN CHRIST. Your implication that it is not about that shows your complete and conscious lack of understanding of this basic concept.

I wish this hadn't happened to you too. I believe you would think with a lot more clarity. From this standpoint I do pray for you.

The truth is simply that... THE TRUTH.

All of that will happen after death on Judgement Day link HERE.

On Judgement day everything will work out fine, and everyone will get saved at that time.

It sounds like a second chance but really it is a first chance because most people are just lost sheep and only on Judgement Day will they actually believe because then they will see and hear the truth without confusion.