Gospel of Inclusion.

[Kain99]

Chuck Norris doesn't tea bag... He potato sacks!

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Chuck Norris doesn't

Why not we try to stay on the decent and clean side over here?

 

[Kain99]

Why not we try to stay on the decent and clean side over here?

Because you guys are serious, you are going to self implode!

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Because you guys are serious, you are going to self implode!

Well we are discussing a "serious" subject but I see no reason to stop it by bringing it down to the gutter.

We already have enough things in this world to keep people down and unimformed.

 

[This_person]

We already have enough things in this world to keep people down and unimformed.

Been looking in the mirror again, Jimmy?

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

There you go again. You’re just not paying attention. I have said it and will said it again; it is NOT God that is torturing and tormenting those that do not accept Christ. It is those that do not accept Christ that are condemning themselves by making that conscious choice. Condemnation means judgment. The Bible has that word everywhere and you should pay more attention to it. The price for not believing is condemnation or judgment. If I tell my kid if he touches the fragile lamp he will be grounded in his room for a week; when he finally touches it and breaks it does that mean I condemned him, or did he condemn himself by disobeying me? I made the rule, he broke it. God made the rule “accept Christ or be condemned”. If you chose not to follow that rule you face the consequences. You bring judgment on yourself.

God does not twist the truth around like that.

Even in this world we have many Countries and in the USA there are many States that have stopped executions and we know who is doing the executions (the killing) and it is not the prisoner doing the executions.

The blaming of a prisoner for their own punishment is just a cheap cutdown like kicking the person while they are down.

If your God is burning people in a Hell and you blame those burning then you will make an excellant demon in the after-life.

 

[PsyOps]

Even in this world we have many Countries and in the USA there are many States that have stopped executions and we know who is doing the executions (the killing) and it is not the prisoner doing the executions.

The state of MD still conducts executions, the most recent being in Dec 2005. So we still have many that still do executions. If someone comes to MD and commits murder they do so with the understanding that it is THEY that subject themselves to this penalty. If I try to walk across the beltway and get hit by a car it’s not the driver's fault. It’s mine for ignoring the risk and consequences.

The blaming of a prisoner for their own punishment is just a cheap cutdown like kicking the person while they are down.

What the heck are you talking about? It’s not my fault or anyone else’s (AND CERTAINLY NOT THE LAW’S FAULT) that any criminal is in jail. It’s the criminal’s fault and no one else’s. They brought upon themselves. If that person has any desire for rehabilitation they would be kicking themselves down every day as a reminder that we have laws and they should abide by those laws. Calling my comments as a “cheap cutdown” on further explains why you feel salvation is free; that there are no (and shouldn’t be) any consequences for breaking man’s laws and, especially, God’s laws.

If your God is burning people in a Hell and you blame those burning then you will make an excellant demon in the after-life.

And once again you still don’t get it. It says it plainly in Revelation 20:15 – “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.” and in Matthew 13:49-50 – “Thus it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.”

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

And once again you still don’t get it. It says it plainly in Revelation 20:15 – “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.” and in Matthew 13:49-50 – “Thus it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.”

Sure I get it - but the Book of Revelations is using symbols and metaphors that are meant to mean some thing different then what it says.

The Book of revelation is not to be taken literally or else the symbols would be ridiculous, see Link Here.

Jesus spoke in symbols and parables too like the Matthew text you said above link HERE.

The lake of fire means a place of cleaning and purification and not torture and pain for ever and ever.

God loves His enemies and does not hurt them link HERE.

People are letting their fear to do the interpreting and the fear is wrong.

 

[PsyOps]

Sure I get it - but the Book of Revelations is using symbols and metaphors that are meant to mean some thing different then what it says.

The Book of revelation is not to be taken literally or else the symbols would be ridiculous, see Link Here.

Jesus spoke in symbols and parables too like the Matthew text you said above link HERE.

The lake of fire means a place of cleaning and purification and not torture and pain for ever and ever.

God loves His enemies and does not hurt them link HERE.

People are letting their fear to do the interpreting and the fear is wrong.

You have just talked yourself out of the truth of The Word. When you can reduce your “belief” to symbology and that this Word has no real meaning except as a story or metaphor you have proven you don’t really believe in this Word at all.

The lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 20:14). Do you understand what death is? God does not talk about a grave or hell as before regarding those who are dead. He talks about a “lake of fire”. A place of real suffering. Revelation 20:15- “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.” In other words they suffer the second death. Is this a REAL lake of fire? I have no idea. All I know is these are the people that don’t make it into heaven. These are the people (according to the Bible) that will suffer painfully; the “weeping and gnashing of teeth”. Do I believe this in the literal sense? Yes I do. Do I claim to understand what this suffer will be like? No! All I know is it is a place I don’t want to be.

God loves everyone, but he also is not going to force anyone to believe in Him. He is going to let us decide and face the consequences. It is not God that does this to us.
It is us that subjects ourselves to this “hurt”. The verse you quoted is a command by Christ to us to love each other and to love God. This has nothing to do with God’s judgment on us. Your belief that we all go to heaven, no matter what, cancels out any requirement for God to judge us. It’s just not necessary in your world. But the Bible of full of explaining how God will judge us. Why would God do this? Judge us? Why would he waste His time when he’s just going to raise us up in the end?

But you have chosen to not believe this. You have chosen to believe this is nothing more than a book full of parables and has no real meaning. You have convinced yourself that no matter what we do, and regardless of whether we accept Christ or not, God will accept us into heaven with loving arms. You even believe that Satan goes to heaven too even after being shown, time and time again, Revelation 20:10- “The Devil who had led them astray was thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” You do understand what “TORMENTED” menas, don’t you? None of what you believe is consistent with the Bible. Yet you constantly try to use it for your deceptive purposes. Do I believe you will go to this lake of fire because of it? I have no idea. All I know is if you don’t accept Christ you don’t receive the gift. You WILL see this lake of fire and you WILL only bring this on yourself as you know of the Word of God and Christ. That is about as basic as it gets. Grasping this basic concept, in my opinion, is necessary for living a life that is consistent with what Christ demands of us.

You certainly are going to have a lot to answer for for trying to convey such a deceptive message.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You have just talked yourself out of the truth of The Word. When you can reduce your “belief” to symbology and that this Word has no real meaning except as a story or metaphor you have proven you don’t really believe in this Word at all.

It is very true that "Revelations" does not have much credibility.

It is not the words of Jesus but claims to be Jesus speaking to a "John" and that John pretends to be the Apostle when it is really a "John the Diviner" and not John the Apostle and this so-called Jesus Reveletions is a far cry from what Jesus said in the Gospels.

Now we have Christians that are determined to believe those symbols over top of the plain words spoken by Jesus in the Gospels.

The best arguement against the mystical Hell is Jesus' own words describing the Father God link HERE.

By the fear of death and fear of burning you miss the message.

The lake of fire is the second death (Revelation 20:14). Do you understand what death is? God does not talk about a grave or hell as before regarding those who are dead. He talks about a “lake of fire”. A place of real suffering. Revelation 20:15- “Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.” In other words they suffer the second death. Is this a REAL lake of fire? I have no idea.

"Death" does not mean people burning in Hell for all eternity.

Do you not understand what "death" means?

That "lake of fire" produces the "second death" not eternal life in Hell. DEATH.

You ask me if I understand "death" when you pretend it means eternal life in Hell and death does not mean eternal life.

The second death means dead to sin and then receive eternal life link HERE.

One can not be dead (death) and have eternal life at the same time because death and life are opposites of each other.

 

[PsyOps]

It is very true that "Revelations" does not have much credibility.

Oh I see, Revelation is a big fat lie. If you believe Revelation has no credibility then how is it you even believe there is a resurrection? This is what Revelation is all about.

But, we really don’t need to go on. You have just proven that you do not believe in the Word of God. All you intend to do here is stir things up and engage in worthless debate. You’re nothing more than a troublemaker.

It is not the words of Jesus but claims to be Jesus speaking to a "John" and that John pretends to be the Apostle when it is really a "John the Diviner" and not John the Apostle and this so-called Jesus Reveletions is a far cry from what Jesus said in the Gospels.

This proves that you do not believe in the inspired Word of God; that God speaks through others. You have posted quote after quote of verses from various Gospels; books that were written by mere men. Christ never wrote a word of it. So, based on your above assessment it can’t be valid. It’s all hearsay.

Now we have Christians that are determined to believe those symbols over top of the plain words spoken by Jesus in the Gospels.

Words claimed to be spoken by Jesus. I mean really these books were not written by Jesus. They are really just second-hand information. Can’t be reliable, just like Revelation.

The best arguement against the mystical Hell is Jesus' own words describing the Father God link HERE.

Unreliable! As you stated this is just a person writing about Jesus. Jesus never wrote this. Can’t be trusted.

By the fear of death and fear of burning you miss the message.

The message isn’t about death and burning and the fear thereof; the message is about salvation and choices. You’ve made yours perfectly clear and you certainly will have much to answer for.

"Death" does not mean people burning in Hell for all eternity.

Yes it does. It says it pretty clearly in the verses from Revelation I provided. But, as you stated (and all so conveniently for your own purposes) it can’t be trusted.

Do you not understand what "death" means?

You answered my question with the same question? Not surprised.

That "lake of fire" produces the "second death" not eternal life in Hell. DEATH.

You ask me if I understand "death" when you pretend it means eternal life in Hell and death does not mean eternal life.

God is talking about the death of the soul. I guess this needs very basic terms… Your soul either gets to go to heaven or to hell. Those who go to heaven their souls live in eternal bliss and peace. Those who go to hell live in eternal damnation. The term death is used to describe this existence. The actual meaning is eternal damnation. So, if you want to apply the word “life” or “live” to this, then yes you live, but it is a life of eternal misery. The Bible is quite clear about this.

The second death means dead to sin and then receive eternal life link HERE.

Ah, the book of Romans, written by another mere man (Paul). Not even one of Jesus’ original apostles. Can’t be trusted. Oh and the verse you quote states that “the wages of sin is death”. DEATH. Go back and read Revelation chapter 20 again and understand the second death. Oh wait, that’s right, Revelations is a lie, a “far cry” from the words spoken by Christ. “The gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus.” There’s that word gift again. When someone gives you a gift you have to actively and consciously receive it in order for it to be yours. Until then it’s not yours. Doesn’t matter anyway; it’s all a bunch of hooey since it was only written by a second-hand non-apostle.

One can not be dead (death) and have eternal life at the same time because death and life are opposites of each other.

It means dead to God. Those who are sent to the lake of fire are dead to God. Do you get this? DEAD TO GOD!

You have made it clear that you don’t really believe in the Bible at all. You have set your own definition of who God is and His purpose. There is no need for this conversation to go on any further.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You’re nothing more than a troublemaker.

God is talking about the death of the soul. I guess this needs very basic terms… Your soul either gets to go to heaven or to hell. Those who go to heaven their souls live in eternal bliss and peace. Those who go to hell live in eternal damnation. The term death is used to describe this existence. The actual meaning is eternal damnation. So, if you want to apply the word “life” or “live” to this, then yes you live, but it is a life of eternal misery. The Bible is quite clear about this.

Oh and the verse you quote states that “the wages of sin is death”. DEATH. Go back and read Revelation chapter 20 again and understand the second death.

It means dead to God. Those who are sent to the lake of fire are dead to God. Do you get this? DEAD TO GOD!

Even if you do call it "death of the soul" or "dead to God" the Apostle Paul in the Bible called it "dead to sin" and ONLY eternal life comes otherwise link HERE.

The "second death" in the "lake of fire" is death to sin and salvation for the worst of the worst sinners so then everybody gets saved.

Fire is a possitive symbol for the Holy Spirit and fire stands for the word of God and fire never ever means torturing people in a Hell because God loves His enemies and love does not ever means burn for all eternity link HERE.

God sent Jesus with a wonderful message of redemption and forgiveness and salvation for all of mankind.

Not even one nasty rotten sheep will be left or lost as we all will be saved unconditionally.

 

[PsyOps]

Even if you do call it "death of the soul" or "dead to God" the Apostle Paul in the Bible called it "dead to sin" and ONLY eternal life comes otherwise link HERE.

The "second death" in the "lake of fire" is death to sin and salvation for the worst of the worst sinners so then everybody gets saved.

Fire is a possitive symbol for the Holy Spirit and fire stands for the word of God and fire never ever means torturing people in a Hell because God loves His enemies and love does not ever means burn for all eternity link HERE.

God sent Jesus with a wonderful message of redemption and forgiveness and salvation for all of mankind.

Not even one nasty rotten sheep will be left or lost as we all will be saved unconditionally.

As you wrote yourself

"It is very true that "Revelations" does not have much credibility.

It is not the words of Jesus but claims to be Jesus speaking to a "John" and that John pretends to be the Apostle when it is really a "John the Diviner" and not John the Apostle and this so-called Jesus Reveletions is a far cry from what Jesus said in the Gospels."

THE BIBLE HAS NO CREDIBILITY SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN BY PEOPLE OTHER THAN JESUS. It's all hearsay.

Without any credibility how can we be sure that there any such thing as salvation. YOUR words. Not mine.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

As you wrote yourself

THE BIBLE HAS NO CREDIBILITY SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN BY PEOPLE OTHER THAN JESUS. It's all hearsay.

Without any credibility how can we be sure that there any such thing as salvation. YOUR words. Not mine.

That is far from what I said, and you are simply doing the all-or-nothing nonsense.

Like if Jonah was not swallowed by a BIG fish then Jesus did not exist, which is foolish.

If Revelations is a phony then the whole Bible is worthless - and that is not true.

God is in life / in reality, and God is not the Bible and God is not IN the Bible.

Protestants have made a false idol out of the Bible and Jesus told us to seek out the truth.

When I researched the subject it became really kind of easy to find out the true parts and separating truth from fiction makes the Bible a hundred times more interesting.

I find the small truths to be so very powerful that the large non-truths to be worthless information anyway.

If the Bible did not exist and maybe destroyed completely in the first century then the salvation of Jesus would still be true and effective and people today would not be any more uninformed then those that believe our loving Father God would burn people in a Hell.

That false interpretation of God lives in an "infalible book" while the true God lives out here in the real world.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Even if you do call it "death of the soul" or "dead to God" the Apostle Paul in the Bible called it "dead to sin" and ONLY eternal life comes otherwise link HERE.

The "second death" in the "lake of fire" is death to sin and salvation for the worst of the worst sinners so then everybody gets saved.

Fire is a possitive symbol for the Holy Spirit and fire stands for the word of God and fire never ever means torturing people in a Hell because God loves His enemies and love does not ever means burn for all eternity link HERE.

God sent Jesus with a wonderful message of redemption and forgiveness and salvation for all of mankind.

Not even one nasty rotten sheep will be left or lost as we all will be saved unconditionally.

Now I feel I need to point out that above I showed from the Bible that the "lake of fire" is a symbol for purification and not torture in Hell, and I showed from the Bible that the "second death" means dead to sin and thus saved, so I used the Bible correctly to show that the concept of "Hell" is not true, and I showed from the Bible that everyone does get saved in the end.

So the belief that parts of the Bible being faked and fraudulent has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of no Hell and everyone gets saved.

Therefore even the fake parts of the Bible agree that everybody gets saved and there is no place of torture called "Hell".

Just FYI.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Even if you do call it "death of the soul" or "dead to God" the Apostle Paul in the Bible called it "dead to sin" and ONLY eternal life comes otherwise link HERE.

The "second death" in the "lake of fire" is death to sin and salvation for the worst of the worst sinners so then everybody gets saved.

Fire is a possitive symbol for the Holy Spirit and fire stands for the word of God and fire never ever means torturing people in a Hell because God loves His enemies and love does not ever means burn for all eternity link HERE.

God sent Jesus with a wonderful message of redemption and forgiveness and salvation for all of mankind.

Not even one nasty rotten sheep will be left or lost as we all will be saved unconditionally.

It is plain to see for anyone who has actually read the Bible, you have no understanding of what you post. Death of the soul or dead to God and dead to sin are two totally different concepts. In order to not suffer being dead to God you must become dead to sin.

Fire can be used as a symbol of the Holy Spirit, but the use in the phrase "lake of fire" is plain since "the lake of fire" is a place of eternal torment. Therefore, the meaning of the word fire in "lafe of fire" is not the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit does not bring torment but joy.

Not everyone is saved. You are wrong. Your sources are wrong. Your interpretation is wrong. Your actions are wrong. You will be defeated in the election. Take that defeat as a sign that God is telling you that you are wrong. For if you are right, God will let you prevail in the election no matter how inconceivable it is in human understanding.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Now I feel I need to point out that above I showed from the Bible that the "lake of fire" is a symbol for purification and not torture in Hell, and I showed from the Bible that the "second death" means dead to sin and thus saved, so I used the Bible correctly to show that the concept of "Hell" is not true, and I showed from the Bible that everyone does get saved in the end.

So the belief that parts of the Bible being faked and fraudulent has absolutely nothing to do with the doctrine of no Hell and everyone gets saved.

Therefore even the fake parts of the Bible agree that everybody gets saved and there is no place of torture called "Hell".

Just FYI.

Do not believe JPC. You too, Kain. If you do you are believing and relying on lies.

The Bible is the word of God; the history of the great "I AM" revealed to man. The prophesy of what God will bring to pass and Christ's kingdom that will be established, and of the casting out of the kingdom of satan, the former angels that followed satan in the battle against God, and all humans that do not find God's path to salvation through righteousness.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You will be defeated in the election. Take that defeat as a sign that God is telling you that you are wrong. For if you are right, God will let you prevail in the election no matter how inconceivable it is in human understanding.

So you say if I win this election then God is on my side!!!!

And all I need is the 50.1 % of the vote and I WIN.

But in my own belief then God only ask me to deliver the message that offers a way out and that I am doing so I see my campaign as a BIG win already.

The vote is only a physical act and not God acting - in fact the majority of people kind of voted against Jesus when He was here on earth so I do not believe the popular vote is a true reflection of the will of God.

Even Adolf Hitler got voted in - and you might call that God's work but I do not.

I feel much like the prophet Jonah link HERE because like Jonah I would prefer that the wrath of God come on this people instead of repentance but I feel pressured to do my duty anyway and run for election and offer the sinners a chance at redemption so I do it grudgingly like Jonah did in that story.

Considering that I am running a morality campaign against immorality it would seem that God would bless the effort,

and all I need is 50.001 % and I win.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So you say if I win this election then God is on my side!!!!

And all I need is the 50.1 % of the vote and I WIN.

But in my own belief then God only ask me to deliver the message that offers a way out and that I am doing so I see my campaign as a BIG win already.

The vote is only a physical act and not God acting - in fact the majority of people kind of voted against Jesus when He was here on earth so I do not believe the popular vote is a true reflection of the will of God.

Even Adolf Hitler got voted in - and you might call that God's work but I do not.

I feel much like the prophet Jonah link HERE because like Jonah I would prefer that the wrath of God come on this people instead of repentance but I feel pressured to do my duty anyway and run for election and offer the sinners a chance at redemption so I do it grudgingly like Jonah did in that story.

Considering that I am running a morality campaign against immorality it would seem that God would bless the effort,

and all I need is 50.001 % and I win.

Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Yeah. We know you do not believe the Bible, so you don't believe God is in control and places those that are put in a place of authority. Your past actions and most of what you post show that you do not believe the Bible. Someone who believed the Bible would have been man enough to have taken proper care of his child.

It is not moral to preach lies, and you won't get close to 50% of the vote. You might get 5%, but even that will be a protest against Hoyer and not a vote for you.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Yeah. We know you do not believe the Bible, so you don't believe God is in control and places those that are put in a place of authority.

I had not realized that was the error.

The governing "authorities" does not mean persons but the demands of gov are the authorities.

Like President Nixon broke the rules and lost his governing power because the person Nixon like every person (as the text says) is subject to the authority of gov.

It is saying the authority of gov and not the authority of the person in gov.

Hitler was only a person and Hitler abused the authority of gov and Hitler destroyed himself and his Country accordingly.

Because the authority of gov is not the authority of the person in gov authority.

A person in gov must not abuse the authority and when the person does abuse the authority there is repercussions.

That is what Romans 13:1 is talking about.