Starman3000m
New Member
Bavarian said:
By Their Fruit, (Examples) you will know them, whether they are of God or not.
how long until the catholic religion dies?
- Thread starter GusChiggins
- Start date
By Their Fruit, (Examples) you will know them, whether they are of God or not.
Starman3000m
New Member
Radiant1 said:The New Testament according to whom? Starman3000m?
Here we go again...
JMJ
Take this one to God not me.
Starman3000m
New Member
Radiant1 said:
LOL - Just the Truth! Who else would you believe?
Bavarian
New Member
Another problem with the protestant faith communities! They have different versions of the Bible, a book disaggrees with their ideas, the toss it out.Starman3000m said:
The Catholic Church has the Magisterium and the Deposit of Faith to fall back on to know which version of the Bible is true.
We have the Pope guided by the Holy Spirit to guide her.
Starman3000m
New Member
Bavarian said:
OK - but as for me, I personally trust The One and Only Mediator to guide me into Truth:
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
(1 Timothy 2:5 (New International Version)
Starman3000m
New Member
Radiant1 said:
Take that one to God also. I believe Jesus Is The One Who Shed His Blood as an Atonement, Lives and Mediates on behalf of the Children of God?
God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
I'm only here for a few rounds. Starman, this is a futlie discussion as many others here know. It has all been said before, MANY TIMES. Bavarian, please show me IN THE BIBLE where Jesus made Peter the first pope and where it says that: "one has to submit to the pope to gain salvation"? I see that YOU TOO are more loyal to catholic doctrine, than to the truth. Thanks.Bavarian said:
Dork
Highlander's MPD
GusChiggins said:
Spoken like a true moron!
What makes them stuck in the past (in your mind)?
Why is it not relevant in this day and age (to you)? It's obviously very relevant to millions of people around the world.
What is wrong with the pope being conservative? Do we all have to think the way you do?
Starman3000m
New Member
Radiant1 said:I think God tells me something different than He tells you.
Hmmm... I am curious now; What did God tell you that is different?
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. (1 Corinthians 14:33)
Radiant1 said:
Sorry, my bad, thanks for pointing that out. Should've been puncuated with a period. Happened due to having to hurry and I'll try to be more careful next time.
But, admittedly, this only goes to show that I ain't perfect and that's why I'm banking exclusively on Y'shua HaMashiach, (Jesus of Nazareth) to be my Mediator; He is The Perfect One.
nhboy
Ubi bene ibi patria
GusChiggins said:
Could you be more specific? What practices do you think are keeping the Church in the past? I know the Pope has permitted the Tridentine rite (that's my kind of rite!) to be practiced but it is not compulsory. If they haven't changed it, there a few unkind words for the Jews in there!
I'm not interested in how long the Catholic Church will last, its already lasted quite awhile.....
What I find interesting is that a fourteen year old Roman Catholic boy, Joseph Alois Ratzinger, now known as Pope Benedict XVI, was a forced member of the Hitler Youth when he was a child. I understand that at sixteen years old, he trained as a Luftwaffenhelfer, or colloquially, a Flakhelfer (anti-aircraft corp flak helper), part of a group of about 100,000 German boys (and girls) who were required to assist soldiers with operating searchlight and anti-aircraft batteries. Joseph reportedly was not very keen on being a Hitler Youth, and being of a sickly nature he missed a lot of training (probably on purpose). It is unclear if he trained with the infantry or if he ever actually participated in defense operations. Germany had to draft its youngsters because the Luftwaffe couldn't control the airspace above Germany. The British were constantly bombing urban areas at night and the Americans were doing it by day. I find it somewhat ironic that at age 78 he became the supreme leader of a church that historically had a very large role (over a period of decades) in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust by implementing a sustained campaign of demonizing the Jews, apparently the purpose being to maintain ancient Ecclesiastical discipline within the Church.
Starman3000m
New Member
ItalianScallion said:
Thanks ItalianScallion, good to see ya here. I Hope Bavarian can answer your questions.
BTW, my mom and dad (now with the Lord) were from a small community in Mexico and were raised to accept Catholic doctrine.
My parents became Evangelical Christians a few years after they were married on account of the mission work of a Protestant minister who visited the town and gave my dad a Holy Bible to keep. At that time, however, the Catholic church members were not allowed to own or read a Bible because "only the priest" could interpret the "word of God." Dad kept and read the Bible anyway.
Long story short, the local priest incited some of the members to turn against my parents for converting to "Protestant" Evangelical Christianity. Their home was pelted with rocks and my parents were scorned and verbally insulted by those whom they had once thought were God-fearing friends. The result is that my parents, with three children at that time, were forced to move out of the community.
Another account that my mom shared is that when she was a young girl attending a celebration at the Catholic church, the local priest had tried to get her off to the side to be alone with him. She perceived that he was up to no good and made a bee-line back to where her parents were. Many other stories were told that are similar to the goings-on of present day priests in the Catholic church and the incidents mom related dated back to the 1930s!
Granted, the Catholic church is by far not the only denomination where such incidents occur but it is hard pressed for any church to maintain credibility when the leadership in charge of "shepherding" turns out to be wolves in sheep's clothing.
Sorry if this offended anyone but I felt this needed to be shared here.
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RangerJohn
New Member
The Chief was explaining things to the Ensign one day.
"You know, I know everyone there is to know. Just name Someone, Anyone and I know them."
Tired of his boasting, the Ensign called his bluff, "Okay, Chief, how about Tom Cruise"? "Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends and I can prove it."
So they fly out to Hollywood and knock on Tom Cruise's door and sure enough, Tom Cruise, shouts, "Chief! Great to see you! You and your friend come right in and join me for lunch!" Although impressed, the Ensign is still skeptical. After they leave Cruise's house, he tells the Chief that he thinks his knowing Cruise was just lucky.
"No, no, just name anyone else," the Chief says. "President Bush," the Ensign quickly retorts. Yep", I know him, let's fly out to Washington."
So, off they go. At the White House, Bush spots them on the tour and motions them over, saying, "Chief, what a surprise. I was just on my way to a meeting, but you and that Ensign come on in and let's have a cup of coffee first and catch up."
Well, the Ensign is very shaken by now, but still not totally convinced.
After they leave the White House grounds, he expresses his doubts to the Chief, who again implores him to name anyone else. The new Pope,"
the Ensign replies. "Sure, I've known the Pope a long time."
So, off they fly to Rome.
They're assembled with the masses in Vatican Square when the Chief says, this will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these people. Tell you what, I know all the guards, so let me just go upstairs and I'll come out on the balcony with the Pope." He disappears into the crowd headed toward St. Peter's.
Sure enough, half an hour later, the Chief emerges with the Pope on the balcony. But by the time he returns, he finds that the Ensign has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics.
Working his way to his side, the Chief asks him, "What happened"?
The Ensign looks up and says, "I was doing fine until you and the Pope came out on the balcony and the tourist next to me asked, "Who's that on the balcony next to the Chief"?
Its GOOD to be the CHIEF!
PS...if you stayed around long enough to read this...these so-called "conservative" Pope's have revitalized the Christian faith. And while it isn't perfect (no institution of Man...even one that is supposed to follow the teachings of God...is perfect.) I'm proud of my faith, one that traces it's beginnings to the words spoken to Peter by Christ..."Upon this rock, I will build my church."
"You know, I know everyone there is to know. Just name Someone, Anyone and I know them."
Tired of his boasting, the Ensign called his bluff, "Okay, Chief, how about Tom Cruise"? "Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends and I can prove it."
So they fly out to Hollywood and knock on Tom Cruise's door and sure enough, Tom Cruise, shouts, "Chief! Great to see you! You and your friend come right in and join me for lunch!" Although impressed, the Ensign is still skeptical. After they leave Cruise's house, he tells the Chief that he thinks his knowing Cruise was just lucky.
"No, no, just name anyone else," the Chief says. "President Bush," the Ensign quickly retorts. Yep", I know him, let's fly out to Washington."
So, off they go. At the White House, Bush spots them on the tour and motions them over, saying, "Chief, what a surprise. I was just on my way to a meeting, but you and that Ensign come on in and let's have a cup of coffee first and catch up."
Well, the Ensign is very shaken by now, but still not totally convinced.
After they leave the White House grounds, he expresses his doubts to the Chief, who again implores him to name anyone else. The new Pope,"
the Ensign replies. "Sure, I've known the Pope a long time."
So, off they fly to Rome.
They're assembled with the masses in Vatican Square when the Chief says, this will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these people. Tell you what, I know all the guards, so let me just go upstairs and I'll come out on the balcony with the Pope." He disappears into the crowd headed toward St. Peter's.
Sure enough, half an hour later, the Chief emerges with the Pope on the balcony. But by the time he returns, he finds that the Ensign has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics.
Working his way to his side, the Chief asks him, "What happened"?
The Ensign looks up and says, "I was doing fine until you and the Pope came out on the balcony and the tourist next to me asked, "Who's that on the balcony next to the Chief"?
Its GOOD to be the CHIEF!
PS...if you stayed around long enough to read this...these so-called "conservative" Pope's have revitalized the Christian faith. And while it isn't perfect (no institution of Man...even one that is supposed to follow the teachings of God...is perfect.) I'm proud of my faith, one that traces it's beginnings to the words spoken to Peter by Christ..."Upon this rock, I will build my church."
brendar buhl
Doesn't seem Christian
Starman3000m said:
Wow! I really love the Protestant vs. Catholic smackdown. It's almost as uplifting as the all-too-typical Christian vs. everyone else smackdown. This however is different. This may just be the most inappropriate post I have ever read here on the religious forum.
"Pssst...By-the-way, just for your own good...I heard that priests are abusive child molesters...but I mean that in love."
Starman3000m
New Member
brendar buhl said:
Hi brendar,
P.S. You forgot to include the last paragraph of my post which reads:
Granted, the Catholic church is by far not the only denomination where such incidents occur but it is hard pressed for any church to maintain credibility when the leadership in charge of "shepherding" turns out to be wolves in sheep's clothing.
BTW:
The "Protestant vs Catholic smackdown" (as you call it) began in the year 1517 as a challenge to what was being taught by the Vatican. If you are really ( I mean really) interested in the history please take a look:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html
If that link doesn't work for whatever reason do an Internet search using the words 95 Thesis.
Remember this was from the year 1517; not 2007.
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GusChiggins
Old Prospector
the karma i got from this thread is hilarious, and just goes to further prove how intolerant catholics are of thinking outside the box.
for all your information, specifically those negging me, i was raised catholic, and did all the sacraments (baptism, reconciliation, first communion, confirmation). i went to church every sunday for the first 17 years of my life. i went to sunday school for many of those years, as well as for a week every summer for 5 years or so in there.
that being said i'd love to see you all purporting that the catholic church is growing in the united states, because i find that VERY hard to believe when i come from baltimore, a VERY old archdiocese, and they can barely get 1 priest per church nowadays, whereas 10 years ago we had 3 full time priests including the pastor. many churches have cut masses. and maryland is, i would wager, one of the most heavily catholic states in the country.
if catholicism is growing worldwide, it is through missionaries in africa and central/south america, it is certainly not in the united states. when is the last time the catholic church had good publicity?
ways the catholic church is behind the times:
-birth control: natural family planning doesnt work. if you want every catholic family to have 9 kids and not be able to send any of them to college and lower each one's standard of living, then by all means, natural family plan away. give me a condom, and give the girl the pill. same goes for morning after pills which PREVENT CONCEPTION not abort a fertilized egg.
-divorce = no communion. i could be wrong on this one, but i believe if you get divorced, and do not have an anullment, you technically arent supposed to be allowed to take communion? that makes sense. i'm sure Jesus would have turned these people away from receiving him.
-priests cant get married: this one never made sense to me. almost everything in christianity is founding on judaism, where rabbis can get married.
-only male priests: i'm no biblical scholar but i don't recall it saying only males can be priests. i get the fact that they are supposed to be married to God, but seriously, the above point and this one, are we really surprised about the scandals that arise?
-womens rights: women are the driving religious force in many families, and in general, the catholic church treats women as second rate citizens. Hell, for the first 1900 years or so of the religion, women could not even go on the altar. at least now they can be eucharistic ministers. but why shouldn't they be deacons, or priests? i can't blame any woman for feeling out of touch with the catholic church. it's ruled by men, all decisions are made by men and men alone, and only men are allowed to lead congregations. but hey, we can give out bread and sing. hooray!!!
those are some of my issues with the church. i understand where it's coming from but at this point it is out of touch and behind the times. and there is precedent for modernizing the church.... vatican conventions and such. the church should change with the times to most serve and reach its people.
for all your information, specifically those negging me, i was raised catholic, and did all the sacraments (baptism, reconciliation, first communion, confirmation). i went to church every sunday for the first 17 years of my life. i went to sunday school for many of those years, as well as for a week every summer for 5 years or so in there.
that being said i'd love to see you all purporting that the catholic church is growing in the united states, because i find that VERY hard to believe when i come from baltimore, a VERY old archdiocese, and they can barely get 1 priest per church nowadays, whereas 10 years ago we had 3 full time priests including the pastor. many churches have cut masses. and maryland is, i would wager, one of the most heavily catholic states in the country.
if catholicism is growing worldwide, it is through missionaries in africa and central/south america, it is certainly not in the united states. when is the last time the catholic church had good publicity?
ways the catholic church is behind the times:
-birth control: natural family planning doesnt work. if you want every catholic family to have 9 kids and not be able to send any of them to college and lower each one's standard of living, then by all means, natural family plan away. give me a condom, and give the girl the pill. same goes for morning after pills which PREVENT CONCEPTION not abort a fertilized egg.
-divorce = no communion. i could be wrong on this one, but i believe if you get divorced, and do not have an anullment, you technically arent supposed to be allowed to take communion? that makes sense. i'm sure Jesus would have turned these people away from receiving him.
-priests cant get married: this one never made sense to me. almost everything in christianity is founding on judaism, where rabbis can get married.
-only male priests: i'm no biblical scholar but i don't recall it saying only males can be priests. i get the fact that they are supposed to be married to God, but seriously, the above point and this one, are we really surprised about the scandals that arise?
-womens rights: women are the driving religious force in many families, and in general, the catholic church treats women as second rate citizens. Hell, for the first 1900 years or so of the religion, women could not even go on the altar. at least now they can be eucharistic ministers. but why shouldn't they be deacons, or priests? i can't blame any woman for feeling out of touch with the catholic church. it's ruled by men, all decisions are made by men and men alone, and only men are allowed to lead congregations. but hey, we can give out bread and sing. hooray!!!
those are some of my issues with the church. i understand where it's coming from but at this point it is out of touch and behind the times. and there is precedent for modernizing the church.... vatican conventions and such. the church should change with the times to most serve and reach its people.
Well, I didn't leave you red karma but I am antagonistic toward your viewpoint.GusChiggins said:
For the record, I am an atheist. Not an agnostic, as in I don't know if there's a God or not, but an atheist (a: meaning without; theism: meaning a belief). But I am not hostile to religion and think it's part of our cultural heritage, and you are ignorant of religion to your own peril.
I would like you to explain to me why you feel the need to denigrate a religious belief that has no bearing on your life or well-being.