I am the mother of "that child"

[black dog]

So you say. Your incessant badgering and belittling posters in order to get them to give you the answers you feel entitled to is indicative of someone who's melting down. Not to mention the way you stalk various posters around the forum in order to slam their every post. People go about it in different ways. :shrug:

Can you quote some posts of me " Melting Down " ?????
And as far as being a " Stalker " you must have me confused with Wackadoodie.
Just read above... it's​ what she does. Good Day....

 

[Hank]

You are truly a train wreck.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

It's amazing that you are adults.

 

[Suz]

And you are a lier, doctors and psychiatrists​ give adolescent diagnosis on a daily basis.some of it was posted.
But if you rant loud enough, some will believe you.
Maybe try all caps.

You mean "LIAR'??? Wrong again asshat! I know from personal experience. My youngest son is bipolar. (some of you remember I'm sure "some peoples kids") I think that to be what the diagnosis will be. And doctors will NOT diagnose a CHILD with it until their reaching adulthood. They use ADD or ADHD until then.... which are just "catch phrase" diagnosis's....

I truly feel for Foxxy. Been there done that but it didn't include physical harm to me. I also feel for the child. I'm sure it's not his intent to hurt anyone. But being bipolar there is no black or white.... it's gray all the time. Their emotions run rampant, they don't understand themselves why they act out. Thank goodness there are medications that help, but finding the right one can take time....

 

[Hank]

It's amazing that you are adults.

I think there is some retardation involved....

 

[Gilligan]

I think there is some retardation involved....

The fumes from screen printing. They can rot your brain.

'swat I've heard...

 

[foxxynhounds]

My DH is quite amused that this thread has gotten so many replies...though he holds the "Jennifer at Red Robin" thread as the ultimate in threads that won't die.

Those if you with advice - even black dog, whose advice is utterly worthless, though he will moan and pout and argue otherwise (seriously, between you, black dog, and your super intelligent SO, it must be painful to hold the answers to everything in your brains) - thank you. There were some we hadn't considered.

For those of you who tried to read hidden agendas into my posts - some times people are just honest. I know it's surprising. And while sympathy is appreciated, it was not the purpose of the original post.

For those of you who PM'd me - responses coming. I needed to take a break. There was only so much "in it for the money/mounting a defense strategy/hit him harder/pansy parenting" criticism I could take.

 

[Hank]

My DH is quite amused that this thread has gotten so many replies...though he holds the "Jennifer at Red Robin" thread as the ultimate in threads that won't die.

Those if you with advice - even black dog, whose advice is utterly worthless, though he will moan and pout and argue otherwise (seriously, between you, black dog, and your super intelligent SO, it must be painful to hold the answers to everything in your brains) - thank you. There were some we hadn't considered.

For those of you who tried to read hidden agendas into my posts - some times people are just honest. I know it's surprising. And while sympathy is appreciated, it was not the purpose of the original post.

For those of you who PM'd me - responses coming. I needed to take a break. There was only so much "in it for the money/mounting a defense strategy/hit him harder/pansy parenting" criticism I could take.

You didn't reply to Monello's idea? Have you looked into Military Schools?

 

[PsyOps]

My DH is quite amused that this thread has gotten so many replies...though he holds the "Jennifer at Red Robin" thread as the ultimate in threads that won't die.

Those if you with advice - even black dog, whose advice is utterly worthless, though he will moan and pout and argue otherwise (seriously, between you, black dog, and your super intelligent SO, it must be painful to hold the answers to everything in your brains) - thank you. There were some we hadn't considered.

For those of you who tried to read hidden agendas into my posts - some times people are just honest. I know it's surprising. And while sympathy is appreciated, it was not the purpose of the original post.

For those of you who PM'd me - responses coming. I needed to take a break. There was only so much "in it for the money/mounting a defense strategy/hit him harder/pansy parenting" criticism I could take.

You took a chance to share a personal issue. It's a real problem that most on here haven't experienced; so they see it as a means to mock and belittle you. Nothing but bullies trying to make themselves feel big picking on someone they feel is weak. It compensates for their own ####tie lives.

But, I think most authentically care and want you to experience relief, and for your son to have peace and happiness. For me, the starting point is always what they are eating. Food is everything in how healthy we are, our behavior, our mental well-being... A person can suffer from food allergies that can cause a plethora of problem, including behavioral. But moreso... refined sugars, processed foods, and all of the chemicals in our foods destroy everything that needs to be healthy... the gut, the brain... the body goes into overdrive trying to combat things the bodies doesn't want, causing inflammation in ways we often can't see on the outside.

I pray you find the answers.

 

[Gilligan]

My DH is quite amused that this thread has gotten so many replies...though he holds the "Jennifer at Red Robin" thread as the ultimate in threads that won't die.

Those if you with advice - even black dog, whose advice is utterly worthless, though he will moan and pout and argue otherwise (seriously, between you, black dog, and your super intelligent SO, it must be painful to hold the answers to everything in your brains) - thank you. There were some we hadn't considered.

For those of you who tried to read hidden agendas into my posts - some times people are just honest. I know it's surprising. And while sympathy is appreciated, it was not the purpose of the original post.

For those of you who PM'd me - responses coming. I needed to take a break. There was only so much "in it for the money/mounting a defense strategy/hit him harder/pansy parenting" criticism I could take.

I hope my personal story with respect to foster children gone rogue was not perceived as too negative or hopeless. It was simply what I experienced. I certainly wish/hope that you find a way that leads to a better outcome than the one I saw.

 

[foxxynhounds]

We are looking into "alternative schooling" (including military and therapeutic schools) and dietary changes/considerations. Those are the main ones we haven't tried yet.

 

[RoseRed]

We are looking into "alternative schooling" (including military and therapeutic schools) and dietary changes/considerations. Those are the main ones we haven't tried yet.

I wish you luck! Be sure to let us know how things are going, if you want to.

 

[Bann]

I wish you luck! Be sure to let us know how things are going, if you want to.

 

[vraiblonde]

We are looking into "alternative schooling" (including military and therapeutic schools) and dietary changes/considerations. Those are the main ones we haven't tried yet.

Well good luck! Hopefully he'll respond to the changes - wouldn't it be great if it were something simple that can be controlled.

 

[DannyMotorcycle]

I've lost track on who said what and challenged who's ability to parent. I don't think you understand, unless you have a child with a disability, what it's like.
It's not so much about parenting as it is coping. If you have successfully raised 3 children and number 4 has an issue, it's not lack of knowledge that hurts, it's coping with the various bumps along the way.

Because you are forced into learning about the issue, dealing with ignorance will try your patience.
AD/HDD is not analogous with behavioral problem
AD/HDD does not correlate to poor grades
It is an impairment to a student reaching their potential. The diagnosis takes a qualified mental health professional to perform.
Treatment / remediation involves multiple factors.

A dyslexic does not see things in reverse, We are learning that many highly intelligent people were dyslexic and when they were young people thought they were stupid.

Autism is not one size fits all, it's actually on a scale.

In general a "learning disability" is indicated when the child is performing below their IQ. In other words, people with a learning disability are not stupid, their disability keeps them from performing to the level they could.

People with a learning disability frequently have underlying mental health issues; anxiety, depression, etc.

When it comes to learning disabilities there is no cookbook, no two students learn the same way. You can't warehouse them in a classroom and hope for success.

The only things a parent can do is advocate for their child and get them proper medical treatment.

I just want to contend with the statement that no two students learn the same way.. (with disabilities).. I think what was trying to be said was that 'two students may not likely learn the same way" because with hundreds of millions of kids, surely some would have the exact same disability and actually learn the same way.

I would also like to say... just because a child does have a learning disability, doesn't mean that they should be ruled out automatically from learning traditionally or having traditional problems that could be fixed in the proper manner... For instance, suppose a kid is say autistic.. we shouldnt' assume that the autism would negate a traditional solution, and also not realize that even the parents of "disabled" children cannot be just as guilty as being oblivious that they are a part of the problem as the parents of non disabled kids. Your child having a problem doesn't mean you're not part of the problem, unknowingly, even though you don't ponder that possibility as it would seem illogical to ourselves. Which is understandable. It's not like life and parenting come with an issued manual.

I have a few more questions now... 1>How does the child react to bullies or bigger children at school? is he afraid of anyone, or has no regard for anyone's size/persona? If he treats people differently based on who they are.. he might not be so psychotic. If he's treating mom and dad differently.... because dad is the punisher.. I think maybe mom needs to be the punisher. If he's not touching stove tops after being burned, disability or not, he still may seem to understand the role of actions and consequences.. but knows what he can get away with, and by whom.

If he's abusing mom but not abusing dad, but can "beat" mom but can't beat dad..and only being bad in moms presence.. disability or not, he may still just need to learn to respect mom, as in a healthy respect.. Dad trying physical punishment and mom trying it might be two different things.. If he knows only dad does it, it may be why (if he does) behave differently for mom and dad.

If it were me, being the mother, I think i'd try giving it a shot. that paddle idea.. Start it with a nice firm lecture when he's not being bad, when he's calm.. "Look, I love you and I don't want to beat you, but we are trying everything and it has come to this.. if you over react and act up, get lout of violent *I*, your mother, am going to take that paddle to your backside.. I don't want to do it, but believe me when I do it, it will be HARD to make you respect me, and my instructions to you.. to get you to behave yourself... we're going to try it for this week and see how your behavior goes." I personally would take that chance. Or even if you do the paddling after the father gets home.. as long as it's mom doing it, so that he respects that mom will do it. Mom has to be that burning flame so that he knows ot to touch the stove top.

Now maybe it won't work, maybe he's psychotic (even because of a physical condition in his brain) but it has to come to the point that trying anything is warranted, even what society might not approve. If it works,good, maybe you saved his life and or a lot of pain in his life by nipping it now.. if it doesn't work, it's only tens of seconds of padding/spanking (real spanking, not "i'm just tryring to hurt you emotionally spanking) and hardly cause any permanent damage or be any worse that he has already gotten, again, worth the risk. We don't like to admit it, it doesn't seem logical, but yes, in a given scenario, sometimes it is us. It's not fair for us to not consider we may play a key role in the over all formula of the problem.

Or perhaps one of the pro-spanking trying forum members near by and wouldn't mind beign the person to call to come spank/paddle.

I'm not saying it will work or it's the right thing, i'm saying at this point it's worth a try. the fact that you get bruised and need pepper spray kind of suggest to me that you havent' been THAT disciplinarian... I could be wrong.. but maybe it's time you are.. like i said, even when dad is home.. dad can hold him, mom can apply that paddle in a real way, and he might learn to respect mom. I think we should not underestimate him, that even if he does have some issues, it's wrong to underestimate that he could still be smart enough to learn from real negative reinforcement. Like i said, he's not burning his hand on the stove or repeatedly injuring himself in situations others would have learned from right? it's worth a try.

And it's not about blame.. it's totally understandable..it makes sense.. but it's time to try almost anything.. switch the situation up.. and focourse i'm nto saying just beat him whenever he's bad.. give him fair warnings and say "okay you're acting up again, i really hate spanking you, i really dont' want to, but i'm giving you this opportunity this warning, just behave now and it won't have to come to that... do you just want to behave and we all stay happy, or do you want to continue to over react and force me into spanking you when i really dont' want to, but certainly will.. it's your choice, what do you want to do? be calm and mature or just keep acting without self control and get spanked?"

 

[DannyMotorcycle]

Frustratingly, this is true. He is always so upset when he tries really hard to behave, yet doesn't reap immediate rewards. Oh, you were nice to so-and-so today? Well, they still might not want to play with you after you hit them yesterday. Oh, this time you're telling the truth? Forgive me, after 7 years of "but this time, it's the truth," only to have the lie validated, no, I don't believe you.

He genuinely doesn't understand why years of misbehavior can't be corrected in a day.

AFA a disability is concerned - he does need an IEP, and has slightly lower cognitive abilities than "normal," and significant processing issues. He literally cannot think as quickly as he can act, and when we respond to his behavior with reason, we get incredibly frustrated. Dh and I are both high-IQ, high-grade professionals (not saying this to brag, but to give perspective - we are not idiots), and we often feel like banging our heads against the wall when we simply cannot get him to understand a kindergarten-age behavior action/consequence sequence. HOW CAN IT BE THIS DIFFICULT??? It makes my brain hurt. But, then again...since he lies so much, maybe he really does understand, and is only playing the fool? Who ****ing knows? Even the pros haven't been able to figure it out.

And yes, out of desperation, we have tried physical punishment. Obviously, it does not work. I actually now have pepper spray (dog strength, legal) on hand to keep myself from getting hurt while trying to get him out of the house. DH is not always home to dole out immediate consequences.

instead of you trying to put him out of the house or get him out of the house.. call the cops.... don't physically engage him him, but think out loud for him, with him, get him to follow your train of thoughts.. say what he should be thinking.. nad maybe he'll think it upon hearing it.

 

[black dog]

I just want to contend with the statement that no two students learn the same way.. (with disabilities).. I think what was trying to be said was that 'two students may not likely learn the same way" because with hundreds of millions of kids, surely some would have the exact same disability and actually learn the same way.

I would also like to say... just because a child does have a learning disability, doesn't mean that they should be ruled out automatically from learning traditionally or having traditional problems that could be fixed in the proper manner... For instance, suppose a kid is say autistic.. we shouldnt' assume that the autism would negate a traditional solution, and also not realize that even the parents of "disabled" children cannot be just as guilty as being oblivious that they are a part of the problem as the parents of non disabled kids. Your child having a problem doesn't mean you're not part of the problem, unknowingly, even though you don't ponder that possibility as it would seem illogical to ourselves. Which is understandable. It's not like life and parenting come with an issued manual.

I have a few more questions now... 1>How does the child react to bullies or bigger children at school? is he afraid of anyone, or has no regard for anyone's size/persona? If he treats people differently based on who they are.. he might not be so psychotic. If he's treating mom and dad differently.... because dad is the punisher.. I think maybe mom needs to be the punisher. If he's not touching stove tops after being burned, disability or not, he still may seem to understand the role of actions and consequences.. but knows what he can get away with, and by whom.

If he's abusing mom but not abusing dad, but can "beat" mom but can't beat dad..and only being bad in moms presence.. disability or not, he may still just need to learn to respect mom, as in a healthy respect.. Dad trying physical punishment and mom trying it might be two different things.. If he knows only dad does it, it may be why (if he does) behave differently for mom and dad.

If it were me, being the mother, I think i'd try giving it a shot. that paddle idea.. Start it with a nice firm lecture when he's not being bad, when he's calm.. "Look, I love you and I don't want to beat you, but we are trying everything and it has come to this.. if you over react and act up, get lout of violent *I*, your mother, am going to take that paddle to your backside.. I don't want to do it, but believe me when I do it, it will be HARD to make you respect me, and my instructions to you.. to get you to behave yourself... we're going to try it for this week and see how your behavior goes." I personally would take that chance. Or even if you do the paddling after the father gets home.. as long as it's mom doing it, so that he respects that mom will do it. Mom has to be that burning flame so that he knows ot to touch the stove top.

Now maybe it won't work, maybe he's psychotic (even because of a physical condition in his brain) but it has to come to the point that trying anything is warranted, even what society might not approve. If it works,good, maybe you saved his life and or a lot of pain in his life by nipping it now.. if it doesn't work, it's only tens of seconds of padding/spanking (real spanking, not "i'm just tryring to hurt you emotionally spanking) and hardly cause any permanent damage or be any worse that he has already gotten, again, worth the risk. We don't like to admit it, it doesn't seem logical, but yes, in a given scenario, sometimes it is us. It's not fair for us to not consider we may play a key role in the over all formula of the problem.

Or perhaps one of the pro-spanking trying forum members near by and wouldn't mind beign the person to call to come spank/paddle.

I'm not saying it will work or it's the right thing, i'm saying at this point it's worth a try. the fact that you get bruised and need pepper spray kind of suggest to me that you havent' been THAT disciplinarian... I could be wrong.. but maybe it's time you are.. like i said, even when dad is home.. dad can hold him, mom can apply that paddle in a real way, and he might learn to respect mom. I think we should not underestimate him, that even if he does have some issues, it's wrong to underestimate that he could still be smart enough to learn from real negative reinforcement. Like i said, he's not burning his hand on the stove or repeatedly injuring himself in situations others would have learned from right? it's worth a try.

And it's not about blame.. it's totally understandable..it makes sense.. but it's time to try almost anything.. switch the situation up.. and focourse i'm nto saying just beat him whenever he's bad.. give him fair warnings and say "okay you're acting up again, i really hate spanking you, i really dont' want to, but i'm giving you this opportunity this warning, just behave now and it won't have to come to that... do you just want to behave and we all stay happy, or do you want to continue to over react and force me into spanking you when i really dont' want to, but certainly will.. it's your choice, what do you want to do? be calm and mature or just keep acting without self control and get spanked?"

Great Post,,,

 

[warneckutz]

Why yes I do, and it's very demanding and fulfilling. But as you know all work and no play. We are weeks ahead with business so I'm heading back to Maryland next week and my son and I are sailing the boat down to N Florida to my sisters until this fall.

Actually, you got a day off for being an obsessive nut. That post just happened to be handy.

I note that you're still at it. Don't you have a life or anything like that?

Can you quote some posts of me " Melting Down " ?????
And as far as being a " Stalker " you must have me confused with Wackadoodie.
Just read above... it's​ what she does. Good Day....

 

[HeavyChevy75]

We are looking into "alternative schooling" (including military and therapeutic schools) and dietary changes/considerations. Those are the main ones we haven't tried yet.

I hope that it works for you getting him in the right direction. It is a tough road and not many would be able to do it.

 

[libertytyranny]

I just want to contend with the statement that no two students learn the same way.. (with disabilities).. I think what was trying to be said was that 'two students may not likely learn the same way" because with hundreds of millions of kids, surely some would have the exact same disability and actually learn the same way.

I would also like to say... just because a child does have a learning disability, doesn't mean that they should be ruled out automatically from learning traditionally or having traditional problems that could be fixed in the proper manner... For instance, suppose a kid is say autistic.. we shouldnt' assume that the autism would negate a traditional solution, and also not realize that even the parents of "disabled" children cannot be just as guilty as being oblivious that they are a part of the problem as the parents of non disabled kids. Your child having a problem doesn't mean you're not part of the problem, unknowingly, even though you don't ponder that possibility as it would seem illogical to ourselves. Which is understandable. It's not like life and parenting come with an issued manual.

I have a few more questions now... 1>How does the child react to bullies or bigger children at school? is he afraid of anyone, or has no regard for anyone's size/persona? If he treats people differently based on who they are.. he might not be so psychotic. If he's treating mom and dad differently.... because dad is the punisher.. I think maybe mom needs to be the punisher. If he's not touching stove tops after being burned, disability or not, he still may seem to understand the role of actions and consequences.. but knows what he can get away with, and by whom.

If he's abusing mom but not abusing dad, but can "beat" mom but can't beat dad..and only being bad in moms presence.. disability or not, he may still just need to learn to respect mom, as in a healthy respect.. Dad trying physical punishment and mom trying it might be two different things.. If he knows only dad does it, it may be why (if he does) behave differently for mom and dad.

If it were me, being the mother, I think i'd try giving it a shot. that paddle idea.. Start it with a nice firm lecture when he's not being bad, when he's calm.. "Look, I love you and I don't want to beat you, but we are trying everything and it has come to this.. if you over react and act up, get lout of violent *I*, your mother, am going to take that paddle to your backside.. I don't want to do it, but believe me when I do it, it will be HARD to make you respect me, and my instructions to you.. to get you to behave yourself... we're going to try it for this week and see how your behavior goes." I personally would take that chance. Or even if you do the paddling after the father gets home.. as long as it's mom doing it, so that he respects that mom will do it. Mom has to be that burning flame so that he knows ot to touch the stove top.

Now maybe it won't work, maybe he's psychotic (even because of a physical condition in his brain) but it has to come to the point that trying anything is warranted, even what society might not approve. If it works,good, maybe you saved his life and or a lot of pain in his life by nipping it now.. if it doesn't work, it's only tens of seconds of padding/spanking (real spanking, not "i'm just tryring to hurt you emotionally spanking) and hardly cause any permanent damage or be any worse that he has already gotten, again, worth the risk. We don't like to admit it, it doesn't seem logical, but yes, in a given scenario, sometimes it is us. It's not fair for us to not consider we may play a key role in the over all formula of the problem.

Or perhaps one of the pro-spanking trying forum members near by and wouldn't mind beign the person to call to come spank/paddle.

I'm not saying it will work or it's the right thing, i'm saying at this point it's worth a try. the fact that you get bruised and need pepper spray kind of suggest to me that you havent' been THAT disciplinarian... I could be wrong.. but maybe it's time you are.. like i said, even when dad is home.. dad can hold him, mom can apply that paddle in a real way, and he might learn to respect mom. I think we should not underestimate him, that even if he does have some issues, it's wrong to underestimate that he could still be smart enough to learn from real negative reinforcement. Like i said, he's not burning his hand on the stove or repeatedly injuring himself in situations others would have learned from right? it's worth a try.

And it's not about blame.. it's totally understandable..it makes sense.. but it's time to try almost anything.. switch the situation up.. and focourse i'm nto saying just beat him whenever he's bad.. give him fair warnings and say "okay you're acting up again, i really hate spanking you, i really dont' want to, but i'm giving you this opportunity this warning, just behave now and it won't have to come to that... do you just want to behave and we all stay happy, or do you want to continue to over react and force me into spanking you when i really dont' want to, but certainly will.. it's your choice, what do you want to do? be calm and mature or just keep acting without self control and get spanked?"

In nearly every study ever done physical punishment is linked with worse outcomes. It may "work" in that it frightens younger children into hiding things better as not to experience physical punishment, but it teaches nothing, especially not coping mechanisms or anything useful for the child except avoidance.. Im not saying that as some sort of anti spanking Nazi; when my daughter was younger a well timed swat to make a point happened more than once. But for an older child with behavioral issues, especially with an unknown past experience and possible predisposition to mental health problems, physical punishment sounds llike the very worst idea and would likely make his behavior and mental health worse, not better. And thats not my opinion, that is scientifically upheld fact. Yes, it does appear to be on a scale, ie harsher punishment causes worse issues etc, but with an unknown past, its better not to play roulette with gene and environment interplays, in my opinion.

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Spanking-Linked-to-Mental-Illness.aspx

Your point about dynamics,though, is a solid one. Changing them can be helpful. Most of my mental health treatment experience is with adults, but one of my youngest patients was a young teenager with mostly behavioral issues. She was out of control, was kicked out of school, had violent behavior very similar to that described by the OP. She responded really well to simplfying her life (ie her parents took away nearly everything but a change of clothes and a pillow/blanket) and she earned things back with an elaborate chart developed with her parents and treatment team (it included everything from daily responsibilities to handling things appropriately and was no doubt an intense project for her parents). It gave her something to work for, and was a long enough process (over months) that she was able to learn self regulation and other skills along the way. This time did include inpatient treatment in a mental health unit (where I met her and upheld her chart while she was there) and they did get her on a useful med as well as involved her in groups where she could start to learn skills like delayed gratification, anger management and how to communicate your needs to people in a clear and non violent way. Many people that advocate punishment only dont really understand that often learning these skills are the difference between someone who is totally disabled with their mental disorder and someone who can manage, even in severe cases like schizophrenia. It sounds silly, like its something "average" kids learn through life, but sometimes it takes targeted learning and treatment, a tutor if you will, to help people who are not average grasp these things.

OP, I am sorry there arent more resources for you in this area. Our drug and dump mental health treatment is sad and doesn't help anyone. and I don't envy the amount of work it takes to get a child like that on track, its HARD. But you dont have to do it alone! Please find a good support group , even online forums and make sure you are taken care of as well. My father has late stage cancer and we found a WEALTH of knowledge online from other families, things that helped not only with his treatment, but with his comfort as well. Tapping in to that has made all of the "stuff" such so much easier to navigate. Best of luck, adn whatever you need to do to be safe and provide a chance for hima nd your family is the right decision.