Illegal Immigrants...another view...

[dck4shrt]

Right. Wrong. Legal. Illegal. Who cares as long as it doesn't effect you. Selfish aren't you?

Call it what you want to. I'm just saying that there are lots of consequences to these actions that people aren't even talking about. I also understand that there may be consequences to inaction, but equal effort should be taken to explore the options and consequences. It's all about risk/reward.

I'm certain that if immigration reform comes with a high price tag the American public will turn on it.

 

[dems4me]

I attribute this newfound sensibility to the influence of Riverrat.

No, this can't be backfiring I think Riverrat is nuetral :shrug: Maybe that was just said to prevent arguing though Does that mean my friend RiverRat deserves green

 

[dems4me]

You are becoming more conservative every day.

Vrai, I think we are due for a handle change here. dems4me -> repubs4me

I remember when I was going to college way back when (a community college, basic studies), it was very expensive for me and they said I made too much money to qualify for any helpful financial aide packages. Forget the fact I pay out alot of money for renting and apartment, parking, etc... and silly me for actually trying to advance in my job. My school counselor told me I would realistically be better off if I disavowed my American citizenship, moved out to another country and came back to study with a green card, I'd be much better off and she showed me all the grants and financial aide I can have if I went to another country and then came back with a VISA/greencard or whatever. I was soo frustrated. I had discussed this with someone at the time and they said it was because of all those blasted Republicans in the office (Bush I) at the time. :shrug: Is this wrong? I know Dems tries to look after the little guy, but sometimes enough is enough... Also counselor said I'd be better off if I got off the pill, stopped being responsible and popped out about 6 babies and remained unwed. It all didn't set right with me, I worked hard at work, worked hard at school part time, had a 4.0 average and couldn't afford to keep going maenwhile all these hard plight immigrants were getting MY (an american's) education :shrug: I think it was wrong and it was discouraging :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

they said it was because of all those blasted Republicans in the office (Bush I) at the time.

Were they private grants and scholarships or federal ones?

Colleges set money aside for scholarships to attract out of town/country students. UNL in Lincoln has a New Nebraskan program for out-of-staters where you can get a LARGE scholarship if you agree to stay and work in Nebraska for x-years after graduation and maintain a certain GPA.

 

[dems4me]

Were they private grants and scholarships or federal ones?

Colleges set money aside for scholarships to attract out of town/country students. UNL in Lincoln has a New Nebraskan program for out-of-staters where you can get a LARGE scholarship if you agree to stay and work in Nebraska for x-years after graduation and maintain a certain GPA.

It was a bunch of financial assistant options for people that have greencards/visas... I'll look up the college and see if they have an online link... I'll pretend to have a green card or visa and I can show you all the aide I can qualify for if things havn't chaged over th eyears... back in the day there was no internet I probably could have afforded to do all this but I just fummed and used it as a copout and quit. It was very discouraging, it was like a kick in the gut for someone that was young, starting out, working hard, not getting knocked up, and living at home was not an option, I thought I'd better myself and go to college too

 

[dems4me]

I'm not finding it now :


If things have changed as they may have -- maybe I'll go back --

 

[dck4shrt]

...there were people who actually though that, but never did I figure anyone would actually say it out loud.

So, just to be nice to you as you are new and have demonstrated that you haven't read a word of the exisitng threads on this stuff, let's play 'what if'.

What if we had not invaded, what would Saddam be doing now?

Would you say that he had already corrupted the UN? Please agree, because that is a fact.

Would you say that he was trying to get us off his back?

Would you say he had a reasons for wanting to get out of his cease fire agreements?

Would you speculate on what those reasons were?

Would you say he retained the ability to jump start his WMD programs?

Would you say that he, in time, was going to renew his stated goals of dominating the region?

Would you say that that, his domination of the region, would not be in our national interest?

Would you say it's better to deal with a problem before it gets out of hand?

I'm still asking if it was worth it to get rid of a rotten apple only to replace it with a really expensive almost rotten one?

I don't care if it was the 'right' thing to do. If we always did the right thing geopolitically we would have invaded a long list of countries that aren't democratic and that don't treat their people fairly.

 

[Steve]

I attribute this newfound sensibility to the influence of Riverrat.

No it's not. It's her proximity to Christy and I.

 

[Bruzilla]

I love this line of argument...
Illegal immigrant - not only able to survive on peanuts, but has money left over to help support family in their country of origin
American - can't survive on same amount of money

Personally, I'd rather have the illegals as citizens and workers. Too bad we can't get rid of our dead wood.

Ever see how a group of illegals live? They wear $9.99 WalMart brand shoes instead of $99 Nikes; they fit a dozen or more people into a three-bedroom apt instead of needing their own pad; they pool their grocey money together and eat basic made-from-scratch meals instead of buying prepared foods or eating out; they travel around in 15-passenger vans, not personal automobiles. These folks know how to really stretch a buck, and more importantly they have zero sense of entitlement.

If you told any average American kid that they would need to live like that in order to get by on the wages offered, they would tell you to go F yourself.

 

[dems4me]

No it's not. It's her proximity to Christy and I.

I'm still a dem... sorry.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Call it what you want to. I'm just saying that there are lots of consequences to these actions that people aren't even talking about. I also understand that there may be consequences to inaction, but equal effort should be taken to explore the options and consequences. It's all about risk/reward.

I'm certain that if immigration reform comes with a high price tag the American public will turn on it.

That is your lack of reading. Those consequences have been discussed ad nauseam in these forums.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...

If you told any average American kid that they would need to live like that in order to get by on the wages offered, they would tell you to go F yourself.

At that point, someone needs to tell them to go starve.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm still a dem... sorry.

Not by much.

And it is the Democrats that give our tax money away to those with Green cards and unwed babies mommas. Look at when those programs were started. The Democrats controlled the Congress.

 

[dems4me]

Not by much.

And it is the Democrats that give our tax money away to those with Green cards and unwed babies mommas. Look at when those programs were started. The Democrats controlled the Congress.

Well that's where we differ. I am for welfare (wasn't it FDR the one that created it, the president that served 4 or 5 terms because he was soo popular and liked by the people?) I think welfare is good for folks temproarily down on their luck. I'm not against it, I just think the system has just gotten out of hand over the years. Immigrants though are just NOT down on their luck and the US makes sure of that. I'm sure there's a lot of Dems that say enough is enough. just the same as any sensible person would.

I think its outlandish though to move somewhere to a foreign country illegally live there, have your people start changing the language of said country, etc... I'm more in line of "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" kind of thing, if you don't like it leave or get out we didn't ask you to come here. The whole thing irratates me with illegal immigrants, they are here illegally and from what the issue with asp is, and others, is that they want it to be a misdemeanor not a felony... well sorry, tough luck, that's the law.

Kind of like if I were to up and move and take up residence in someones house (or with asp for example) and say... hey!!! I like it here, screw what you (the owner of this place thinks) this should be legal -- Hey!! You are treating me unfair!! Let me go protest because I want what you have....


Where's the logic in that? :shrug:

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well that's where we differ. I am for welfare (wasn't it FDR the one that created it, the president that served 4 or 5 terms because he was soo popular and liked by the people?) I think welfare is good for folks temproarily down on their luck. I'm not against it, I just think the system has just gotten out of hand over the years. Immigrants though are just NOT down on their luck and the US makes sure of that. I'm sure there's a lot of Dems that say enough is enough. just the same as any sensible person would.

I think its outlandish though to move somewhere to a foreign country illegally live there, have your people start changing the language of said country, etc... I'm more in line of "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" kind of thing, if you don't like it leave or get out we didn't ask you to come here. The whole thing irratates me with illegal immigrants, they are here illegally and from what the issue with asp is, and others, is that they want it to be a misdemeanor not a felony... well sorry, tough luck, that's the law.

Kind of like if I were to up and move and take up residence in someones house (or with asp for example) and say... hey!!! I like it here, screw what you (the owner of this place thinks) this should be legal -- Hey!! You are treating me unfair!! Let me go protest because I want what you have.... Where's the logic in that?

FDR (elected to 4 but died and Truman served the last year of his last term) is one of the worst if not the worst presidents we have ever had. He is the reason we now live in a socialist country instead of a republic despite the technicalities. He thought of the "little people" meaning people like you and I as serfs.

You say legal is legal and illegal is illegal. Where does the Constitution give the power to the federal government to have welfare? Don't say "promote the general welfare" from the preamble, because the preamble grants absolutely no powers to any branch and occurs in the document before any branches are even created. So the federal government does not have the right to fund or collect taxes for welfare. Period. The states or localities can, but the feds cannot do it constitutionally. But in my perusing of the Maryland Constitution, I did not see anywhere where the state is granted the power to provide welfare as we know it either. So that leaves the counties; which is OK with me if their founding documents allow it. That is where welfare should be collected for and provided; neighbors helping neighbors.

As for the illegals, the word illegal speaks for itself.

 

[dems4me]

FDR (elected to 4 but died and Truman served the last year of his last term) is one of the worst if not the worst presidents we have ever had. He is the reason we now live in a socialist country instead of a republic despite the technicalities. He thought of the "little people" meaning people like you and I as serfs.

You say legal is legal and illegal is illegal. Where does the Constitution give the power to the federal government to have welfare? Don't say "promote the general welfare" from the preamble, because the preamble grants absolutely no powers to any branch and occurs in the document before any branches are even created. So the federal government does not have the right to fund or collect taxes for welfare. Period. The states or localities can, but the feds cannot do it constitutionally. But in my perusing of the Maryland Constitution, I did not see anywhere where the state is granted the power to provide welfare as we know it either. So that leaves the counties; which is OK with me if their founding documents allow it. That is where welfare should be collected for and provided; neighbors helping neighbors.

As for the illegals, the word illegal speaks for itself.

I think we are in agreement on the immigration issue, illegal = illegal

 

[Larry Gude]

For crying out loud...

Call it what you want to. I'm just saying that there are lots of consequences to these actions that people aren't even talking about. I also understand that there may be consequences to inaction, but equal effort should be taken to explore the options and consequences. It's all about risk/reward.

I'm certain that if immigration reform comes with a high price tag the American public will turn on it.

http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?t=70737



...there's 28 pages of it.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

I'm still asking if it was worth it to get rid of a rotten apple only to replace it with a really expensive almost rotten one?

I don't care if it was the 'right' thing to do. If we always did the right thing geopolitically we would have invaded a long list of countries that aren't democratic and that don't treat their people fairly.

...you were not asking. You were stating as fact. If you'd like to have that debate, let's go.

And your second paragraph is simply, I'm sorry, naive.

If I'm totally messing with you and you beat the crap out of me in a bar full of people who were thinking about raping/robbing/teasing/general screwing around with you, some because they're that way, some because I was messing with you, some just to see what they can get away with, how many are gonna change their mind and suddenly think thay maybe you're a person worth trying to get along with?

It was the right thing to do and, further, it was the right time and, further, if this country was united the effect would be a whole lot more profound instead of this cry baby touchy feeling horseshit we got going on that amounts to, like your point, back to where we were; what to do about Iraq.

I am clueless as to why people like you don't simply say;

Weapons not as big a threat as feared? GOOD.
Saddam in a cage; GOOD.

Jeses H.

Wanna see a messy birth of a nation? Read about 1776. It took us 11 years to ratify our Constitution ands we still ain't got everything right and we didn't start out all screwed up.

Now Iraq is off the table. Let's finish the job, get them on their feet, several years, maybe 10 or 20 or 50 or forever (South Korea, Germany, Japan ring any bells?) and move the hell on to other things.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I think we are in agreement on the immigration issue, illegal = illegal

As to welfare, it is either constitutional (legal) or unconstitutional (illegal).

 

[vraiblonde]

Ever see how a group of illegals live? They wear $9.99 WalMart brand shoes instead of $99 Nikes; they fit a dozen or more people into a three-bedroom apt instead of needing their own pad; they pool their grocey money together and eat basic made-from-scratch meals instead of buying prepared foods or eating out; they travel around in 15-passenger vans, not personal automobiles. These folks know how to really stretch a buck, and more importantly they have zero sense of entitlement.

Not exactly the American Dream other immigrants come here for, is it?

You've called me a bigot on the subject of illegal immigration, but I will submit to you that at least I do not expect nor do I condone Mexican immigrants living like swine.

You say it's okay to have illegals, because they live like trash, 6 families to an apartment, and they take the #### jobs that us oh so rich and upper-class Americans wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.

I find that offensive.