Illegal Immigrants...another view...

[Larry Gude]

Got me there...

I am talking specifically about illegal immigrants, not immigrants or Mexicans in general. If they're so hard-working, then they can expend the energy to get their paperwork in order so they don't have to worry about INS raids and being deported.
If they actually had to become citizens, I could see them being daunted by the process. But literally all they have to do is go get a permit to work in this country, which can't be rocket science because hundreds of thousands of people do it every year.

...

 

[Larry Gude]

That is SO...

what part of illegal immigrant is confusing? Their very existence here is a crime.

...last week!

 

[Bustem' Down]

Different laws are handled differently, you know better than that. Which is why we have different punishments for different crimes, we have different levels of prison security, etc.

So by your logic you would hire an illegal who enjoys child porn to be your nanny. Good job!

Yeah, because we all know only the illegals like that stuff. If I hire a citizen how do I know he's to be trusted? By your logic you would hire anyone so long as they are legal to be your nanny, not matter what they haven't been coaught doing yet. The guy in the DHS looked like a pretty upstanding individual.

 

[SmallTown]

Yeah, because we all know only the illegals like that stuff. If I hire a citizen how do I know he's to be trusted? By your logic you would hire anyone so long as they are legal to be your nanny, not matter what they haven't been coaught doing yet. The guy in the DHS looked like a pretty upstanding individual.

So you're saying that since illegals are too afraid to commit (more) crimes, we should let them into agencies such as DHS to make us all safer?

 

[vraiblonde]

Have you ever broken the law? Speeding? Anything? Should we trust you?

So you're saying that, since EVERYONE breaks the laws at some point or another, we shouldn't enforce laws or punish violations?

Do the cops just decide that, since everyone speeds, they won't pull anyone over and ticket them anymore?

 

[Toxick]

Yes we all know that. You know what I was taking about.

Well, they might not be out robbing liquor stores, and mugging people, but it is quite obvious that they are willing to bend or simply break the law whenever it suits them to do so.

As many know I lived in Tucson Arizona - which, along with Miami, LA, and San Diego is one of the biggest Illegal Immigration hotspots in the country. I wouldn't say I'm an expert on the subject, but I've seen much of the goings-on and behaviors of some of these illegals.

Twice I've seen groups of people evicted from their apartments. Not because they were illegal aliens - but because they were living in unfit conditions. One batch had crammed 17 people (7 of which were children) into a two-bedroom apartment, and the kids weren't going to school. I kid you not.

Ironically - these people were discovered because they didn't pay their rent. (10 adults living in a house, and they couldn't scratch out the rent?)


They are not evil people - but they most certainly are criminals - because they simply do not care about the law. They ignore it when they can, and dodge it when they can't.

 

[Bustem' Down]

So what do you do? Throw them all in jail? There's a burden on an already burdened situation. Send them back? They'll just cross again. The Mexican government isn't going to do anything becuase quite frankly they don't care. Money is flowing into their economy through their citizens. They current system is the only option. Build a fence, yes, I'm for that. I say one along Canada too! It's security that's the issue not jobs or welfare or anything. I could give a rats ass if the man who built my house, serves me McDonalds, or cuts my grass is illegal, national security is what needs to be resolved.

 

[Toxick]

So what do you do? Send them back? They'll just cross again.

Not if there's a tall & deep wall lined with large men carrying machine guns and the freedom to use them.

Build a fence, yes, I'm for that. I say one along Canada too!

Fine by me - although I'm not entirely sure that we have much of a flood coming in from the north. As far as I can tell most Canadians view America and Americans with some amount of disdain and fear.

But fair's fair. Fences along both borders.

 

[aps45819]

Do the cops just decide that, since everyone speeds, they won't pull anyone over and ticket them anymore?

Actually yes. They usually look the other way if you're going less than 10 mph over the speed limit.

 

[dck4shrt]

I could give a rats ass if the man who built my house, serves me McDonalds, or cuts my grass is illegal, national security is what needs to be resolved.

Since when is the mexican border such a security threat? Did a lot of the 9/11 hijackers cross over from Tijuana?

This is all just a smoke screen to drive attention away from the sagging support for the Iraq war and high oil prices. Gives us something else to think about...obviously.

 

[ylexot]

This is all just a smoke screen to drive attention away from the sagging support for the Iraq war and high oil prices. Gives us something else to think about...obviously.

Right. Because the President and Congress are doing such a stellar job on the border security/illegal immigration issue

 

[dck4shrt]

Right. Because the President and Congress are doing such a stellar job on the border security/illegal immigration issue

They're the dudes who brought it up to begin with, it was a back burner issue until recently...

At any rate, you tell me how you are gonna track down 11 million people who have no identification, barely speak the language, and probably don't want to be found...

let alone pay for it.

The politicians would rather have another unsolvable 'drag your feet' issue in the headlines than Iraq and oil.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well let's talk about oil and Iraq then...

They're the dudes who brought it up to begin with, it was a back burner issue until recently...

At any rate, you tell me how you are gonna track down 11 million people who have no identification, barely speak the language, and probably don't want to be found...

let alone pay for it.

The politicians would rather have another unsolvable 'drag your feet' issue in the headlines than Iraq and oil.

...because both, like immigration, have built up due to no one dealing with them before they became huge problems.

If you're not happy about Iraq, simply explain, pre-invasion, your plan for dealing with Saddam Hussein and why our national interest was better served with him in power.


If you're not happy about high oil, then we should build more refineries. Starting 10 years ago. Crude is not the problem, global refinery capacity is maxed out and we haven't built one in the states in some 30 years.

Thoughts?

 

[dck4shrt]

...because both, like immigration, have built up due to no one dealing with them before they became huge problems.

If you're not happy about Iraq, simply explain, pre-invasion, your plan for dealing with Saddam Hussein and why our national interest was better served with him in power.


If you're not happy about high oil, then we should build more refineries. Starting 10 years ago. Crude is not the problem, global refinery capacity is maxed out and we haven't built one in the states in some 30 years.

Thoughts?

I say we're taking our eye off the ball again. We need to finish something correctly and pay for it before we tackle all of our problems at once...

I'm not the smart guy who went to Iraq in the first place so I don't feel the need to provide an alternative. All I'm saying is that people need to look at the potential outcomes of their decisions and be willing to deal with the worst-case scenario.

Worst-case scenario with immigration reform is that it costs hundreds of billions of dollars to try to round people up and doesn't work. Or you give a nice reward, amnesty, to the people who are already here and screw the people over who are trying to go through the process legally.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

I say we're taking our eye off the ball again. We need to finish something correctly and pay for it before we tackle all of our problems at once...

I'm not the smart guy who went to Iraq in the first place so I don't feel the need to provide an alternative. All I'm saying is that people need to look at the potential outcomes of their decisions and be willing to deal with the worst-case scenario.

Worst-case scenario with immigration reform is that it costs hundreds of billions of dollars to try to round people up and doesn't work. Or you give a nice reward, amnesty, to the people who are already here and screw the people over who are trying to go through the process legally.

But the world doesn't come at you one at a time. What about Iran? How about North Korea? What's to become of the UN after all the Iraq related scandals?

If you have nothing to offer in regards to Iraq, if there isn't a politician out there with a plan you support then you'll understand no one paying any attention to simply complaining about, right? I mean, the worst case scenario with Iraq was a mushroom cloud or a chemical cloud over NYC from some weapon he'd secretly furnished terrorists and, with him constantly throwing out inspectors, we just didn't know and the choice was continue to not know or put and end to his reign. You've gotta agree we're not talking about Mother Theresa here, yes?

As far as immigration, are you recommending the status quo as the solution?

 

[fttrsbeerwench]

Two key points to solving the whole shebang!!

Close the boarders and kick 'em out.. All of 'em. Take back the country and work on what we have going on within our own society..

Anyone who can work, will work.. Period... So and so's 18 year old will get a job and an education.. It's that simple..
My kids don't like to get up in the AM any more than I do, but I FORCE them. They argue about cleaning up and doing chores and homework and eating meals and everything else they can think of.. But they have no choice. I am the MOM.. Period.
I work six days a week and I'm always looking for something better.. I try to teach my kids that they aren't getting squat for nothing, and it's hard when other kids get handed things.. My kids think I'm mean...
Don't you think that's part of the problem? The root of the problem perhaps.
I really think we are too generous, and too easy..

:signedthehippie:

 

[dck4shrt]

But the world doesn't come at you one at a time. What about Iran? How about North Korea? What's to become of the UN after all the Iraq related scandals?

If you have nothing to offer in regards to Iraq, if there isn't a politician out there with a plan you support then you'll understand no one paying any attention to simply complaining about, right? I mean, the worst case scenario with Iraq was a mushroom cloud or a chemical cloud over NYC from some weapon he'd secretly furnished terrorists and, with him constantly throwing out inspectors, we just didn't know and the choice was continue to not know or put and end to his reign. You've gotta agree we're not talking about Mother Theresa here, yes?

As far as immigration, are you recommending the status quo as the solution?

The thought that he was a threat to us is completely off base, and playing up to the mess that we now call pre-war 'intelligence'. Get over it. He wasn't coming after us and he was hemmed in. Mother Theresa he was not, but he was under wraps. The alternative of having a dysfunctional nation is not much better and to date has not been worth the cost, especially if the outcome doesn't improve, dramatically. In fact, 10 or 15 years of mayhem in Iraq followed by a long stretch of a nice peaceful nation may not be worth the cost as we couldn't have predicted how long Hussein would have stayed in power and the cost to keep him under wraps.

Iran and North Korea are playing themselves up because they know that we can't fight another war right now. They are seizing the opportunity that we've given to them by going after that inconsequential loser in Iraq. If we can't take care of business in Iraq what makes you think we can in Iran, a larger country full of way more fanatics that'll be more than willing to blow themselves up. But wait, they can't have nukes, so we better go get 'em, even if it costs hundreds of billions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and turns into a failed nation state? Sounds familiar, but no one is talking about that...

To get back to immigration reform, I haven't seen anyone talking about what happens if it doesn't work. I haven't seen anyone talking about how much more expensive the goods and services that are provided by illegal immigrants will become if we have to regulate their jobs or kick them out, and its consequences on our economy? How much will produce go up? The cost of landscaping? The cost of maid service? If we only knew...

 

[Bustem' Down]

Since when is the mexican border such a security threat? Did a lot of the 9/11 hijackers cross over from Tijuana?

This is all just a smoke screen to drive attention away from the sagging support for the Iraq war and high oil prices. Gives us something else to think about...obviously.

I guess if you had read everything I wrote, you might have gained some knowledge. I'm not just talking about Mexico, I'm talking about Canada too from which terrorists have crossed.

 

[ylexot]

I say we're taking our eye off the ball again. We need to finish something correctly and pay for it before we tackle all of our problems at once...

Ahhhh, I see...you're one of those people that can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Ahhhh, I see...you're one of those people that can't walk and chew gum at the same time.