Immigration Rallies Draw Thousands Nationwide

[vraiblonde]

Anyone checking green cards at your places?

I can vouch for Larry - all his employees are bonafide 'Murcans. However it is typical for larger greenhouse operations to have hoardes (or hordes - which one is it, Jazz?) of illegals. So he has seen how this works firsthand, and so have I. I just don't agree with it and think they should get legal or go the hell home.

And another thing:

Everyone gets so upset about outsourcing - sending jobs to other countries. Yet these exact same people want to bring the other country over HERE for jobs. So which is it? Do we need more jobs in this country or not? Because we're employing foreigners either way.

 

[SamSpade]

If you get a paycheck, you've got 15% SS/Med witheld plus SUTA and FUTA (which aren't much) regardless of how many deductions you claim. If your name is bogus and your SS is bogus, these monies don't come back to you.

We've never got by without hoards of immigrants. My people got here in 1850 and I doubt there was much in the way of documents. Some earlier. How about yours? We're a nation of immigrants both documented and not.

I mentioned in my previous post that the only tax they would pay would be the payroll tax - which is actually 7.65% with the employer paying the other half. If I got by without paying taxes and only lost 7.65% of my paycheck - and got other benefits for free - I'd consider myself damned lucky.

For some reason, the issue KEEPS GETTING MIXED UP between "immigrants" and "illegals". Of *course* we are a nation of immigrants. We all got here that way. On my mother's side - they go back to Jamestown. On my father's side - just post Civil War. I don't care if you think the United States should freely accept as many immigrants as it is humanly possible to fit on our shores - we don't do it that way, and no one ELSE does, either. Next time you visit a foreign nation and they ask for your passport, and you say "F**k that" and try to walk past them, they're going to thump your azz, because nobody puts up with that. You do not enter other nations illegally. If you're REALLY brave, try testing that out in China or Russia.

But we are NOT DISCUSSING "IMMIGRANTS". We're discussing "illegals". And they did not "build this country". Yeah, it's true that much of the twentieth century was built by Poles, and Irish and Italians - who, by the way, came here LEGALLY. It was also built by my farmer ancestors on my father's side - and my grandma, a bona fide Rosie the Riveter - and my mother's family, made up of pioneers and frontiersman. I know these folks want to claim they built this nation because they scrubbed floors and picked tomatoes over the last 50 years - we did that, too. Just because we immigrated here legally doesn't mean we all had silver spoons in our mouths.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I mentioned in my previous post that the only tax they would pay would be the payroll tax - which is actually 7.65% with the employer paying the other half. If I got by without paying taxes and only lost 7.65% of my paycheck - and got other benefits for free - I'd consider myself damned lucky.

Where can I sign up for a deal like that? Let's see fed + state + FICA vs FICA. Yeah buddy. I might actually be able to retire at 65 or 70.

For some reason, the issue KEEPS GETTING MIXED UP between "immigrants" and "illegals". Of *course* we are a nation of immigrants. We all got here that way. On my mother's side - they go back to Jamestown. On my father's side - just post Civil War. I don't care if you think the United States should freely accept as many immigrants as it is humanly possible to fit on our shores - we don't do it that way, and no one ELSE does, either. Next time you visit a foreign nation and they ask for your passport, and you say "F**k that" and try to walk past them, they're going to thump your azz, because nobody puts up with that. You do not enter other nations illegally. If you're REALLY brave, try testing that out in China or Russia.

But we are NOT DISCUSSING "IMMIGRANTS". We're discussing "illegals". And they did not "build this country". Yeah, it's true that much of the twentieth century was built by Poles, and Irish and Italians - who, by the way, came here LEGALLY. It was also built by my farmer ancestors on my father's side - and my grandma, a bona fide Rosie the Riveter - and my mother's family, made up of pioneers and frontiersman. I know these folks want to claim they built this nation because they scrubbed floors and picked tomatoes over the last 50 years - we did that, too. Just because we immigrated here legally doesn't mean we all had silver spoons in our mouths.

Thank you. My ancestors on my fathers side were Welsh/English from Massachusetts Bay Colony. My mom? :shrug: A little French, a little Italian, a little this a little that. All here legally as best I can tell.

The operative word here is "illegal". Come here legally; I have no problem. Come here illegally and be ready for a quick trip home or jail depending on what you have done during your short, shorter, shortest stay.

I remember East Germany before unification. Illegal immigration or emigration had the same consequence if caught - dead on the spot from carrying too much weight. All the lead from the bullets would give you a heart attack if they didn't kill you.

 

[itsbob]

I remember East Germany before unification. Illegal immigration or emigration had the same consequence if caught - dead on the spot from carrying too much weight. All the lead from the bullets would give you a heart attack if they didn't kill you.

But West Germany rewarded them, paid them and treated them like heroes when they did make it, immigration wasn't the problem there, escaping was.

and you only had to worry about the bullets IF you made it past the attack dogs, the planted mine fields, AND the mines on the fence.. THEN when they crossed the FINAL fence (a lot of them died, becasue they crossed a fence and THOUGHT they were in West Germany, when in fact they were still 5K inside of East Germany, they'd run up to the nearest looking soldier thinking he was a Westy, and they in turn would shoot them) they still had anywhere from 100 meters, to 1k to go in the open, past the GAK's before they were in est Germany.

Few places where the final fence was actually on the border. Our observation post at OP Alpha actually extended over the fence into East Germany.

DAMN, sucked me in with a reference to DDR/FRG. Love to tell stories of that place.

 

[2ndAmendment]

But West Germany rewarded them, paid them and treated them like heroes when they did make it, immigration wasn't the problem there, escaping was.

and you only had to worry about the bullets IF you made it past the attack dogs, the planted mine fields, AND the mines on the fence.. THEN when they crossed the FINAL fence (a lot of them died, becasue they crossed a fence and THOUGHT they were in West Germany, when in fact they were still 5K inside of East Germany, they'd run up to the nearest looking soldier thinking he was a Westy, and they in turn would shoot them) they still had anywhere from 100 meters, to 1k to go in the open, past the GAK's before they were in est Germany.

Few places where the final fence was actually on the border. Our observation post at OP Alpha actually extended over the fence into East Germany.

DAMN, sucked me in with a reference to DDR/FRG. Love to tell stories of that place.

I dare say that if anyone was foolish enough to try to immigrate to the DDR illegally, they would also have been shot, blown up, or otherwise hindered from entering illegally.

The FRG considered all Germans citizens, so those from the DDR were not really illegally coming into the FRG.

Spent quite a few days in Berlin and along the border. Those that talk of freedom and haven't seen the wall or the fence have no idea.

 

[itsbob]

Dunno, never heard of that happening.. closest thing to that was a Westerner climbing the fence on our side, and pilfering a fence mine from the other side, he was a hero.. when the fame subsided he pressed his luck and had another go at it. Except this time the East Germans were waiting, and they killed him.

last time I was over there the Westies "extorted" the Eastes to remove the mines form the ground. East Germany needed money in a BAD way, and the west promised them 1/2 billion if they removed the mines..

Well, the mines had been there since the 50's and 60's, this was 88.. they actually had Polish nationals out there with 15 and 20 foot poles detonating the mines. Hell of a way to make a living.

I wasn't allowed to travel to Berlin, but spent 2.5 years in the 11th ACR in Fulda Gap watching the East German Border, then returned to the 3rd inf Div in a recon platoon and watched the East German/ Czech border for another 3 years.

 

[ylexot]

they actually had Polish nationals out there with 15 and 20 foot poles detonating the mines.

Pols with poles!

 

[Larry Gude]

Bring it on...

Immigrants? Yes. Illegal immigrants? No. Larry, you and Bru are so off base on this. I think it must be that you both have a "dog in the fight". Anyone checking green cards at your places?

Doing away with illegal immigration goes or should go hand in hand with cutting back and eliminating most if not all welfare. Baby mama can clean the motel room instead of watching TV and munching on Oreos.

...bring INS, ATF, IRS, ABS, 123 and Do Re Mi. No one here has a green card and I don't know how any of us could prove we're citizens, that includes every last lily white one of us. I also don't figure it would take much more than a few bucks and a little internet surfing to find out how to get around the INS for a motivated or enterprising individual.

I don't think any of you even bothered to process the numbers break down that I did in terms of the actual impact. Economic concerns are baseless. In fact, immigrants are, by my estimation, bringing a net boom to all of us.

Do you know how long it takes to get someone processed legally? You are asking free market enterprise, opportunity, to wait for a beauracracy.

We're dealing with a 25 mph speed limit in the middle of the beltway that everyone ignores and no one enforces and both major parties have allowed this to be for obvious reasons; no one can bring themselves to be bothered by industrious people.

Is it a problem for border towns and areas flooded? I'll bet it is.

So, round 'em all up, one by one? Start shooting people? Expand the federal government some more to process everyone in a timely manner?

 

[Larry Gude]

I can't believe my eyes...

which is actually 7.65% with the employer paying the other half. If I got by without paying taxes and only lost 7.65% of my paycheck - and got other benefits for free - I'd consider myself damned lucky.

Normal thinking fairly conservative people are turning into 'progressives'.

It's 15%. If you don't want to count what your employer pays in your name, make sure you send a letter to the SS Admin telling them that's not your money. It's paid FOR you, it's YOUR money. You don't work, it don't get paid.

So, by that mindset, if the employer paid it ALL you'd consider yourself lucky?

"Here, Sam, this dollar is yours. Don't worry though, that's take home. I paid your SS/Med, your witholding, both fed and state, your health insurance, paid for your gas and your mortgage. You do pretty good on $75,000 a year, yah know? You got no bills! Aren't you lucky?"

 

[2ndAmendment]

Dunno, never heard of that happening.. closest thing to that was a Westerner climbing the fence on our side, and pilfering a fence mine from the other side, he was a hero.. when the fame subsided he pressed his luck and had another go at it. Except this time the East Germans were waiting, and they killed him.

last time I was over there the Westies "extorted" the Eastes to remove the mines form the ground. East Germany needed money in a BAD way, and the west promised them 1/2 billion if they removed the mines..

Well, the mines had been there since the 50's and 60's, this was 88.. they actually had Polish nationals out there with 15 and 20 foot poles detonating the mines. Hell of a way to make a living.

I wasn't allowed to travel to Berlin, but spent 2.5 years in the 11th ACR in Fulda Gap watching the East German Border, then returned to the 3rd inf Div in a recon platoon and watched the East German/ Czech border for another 3 years.

I was doing stuff for INSCOM and some other not to be named agencies in Augsburg, Wobeck, and Berlin as well as a bunch of other place around the globe.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...bring INS, ATF, IRS, ABS, 123 and Do Re Mi. No one here has a green card and I don't know how any of us could prove we're citizens, that includes every last lily white one of us. I also don't figure it would take much more than a few bucks and a little internet surfing to find out how to get around the INS for a motivated or enterprising individual.

I don't think any of you even bothered to process the numbers break down that I did in terms of the actual impact. Economic concerns are baseless. In fact, immigrants are, by my estimation, bringing a net boom to all of us.

Do you know how long it takes to get someone processed legally? You are asking free market enterprise, opportunity, to wait for a beauracracy.

We're dealing with a 25 mph speed limit in the middle of the beltway that everyone ignores and no one enforces and both major parties have allowed this to be for obvious reasons; no one can bring themselves to be bothered by industrious people.

Is it a problem for border towns and areas flooded? I'll bet it is.

So, round 'em all up, one by one? Start shooting people? Expand the federal government some more to process everyone in a timely manner?

Don't know about you but I have a Social Security card and a birth certificate.

And many of us disagree with your assessment of the numbers. And number be damned, they are illegally here and therefore should not be allowed to stay. Period. End of argument.

 

[ylexot]

Do you know how long it takes to get someone processed legally?

That's one of the things that needs to be fixed.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

Don't know about you but I have a Social Security card and a birth certificate.

And many of us disagree with your assessment of the numbers. And number be damned, they are illegally here and therefore should not be allowed to stay. Period. End of argument.

..not end of argument. What now? Federal Bureau of Get Out?

Put employers behind bars? Open up camps? Bring in the military? What is your solution? This is just conversation; you don't have to make it happen. Maybe you have THE solution?

I have a SS and birth cert to. I'll bet you Mohamed Atta did as well.

The numbers are the numbers. If they ain't exact, they're pretty damn close. Or maybe we don't have 10 million here illegally and maybe they aren't working?

 

[vraiblonde]

Put employers behind bars?

This should be considered. If employers didn't BREAK THE LAW by hiring these people, they wouldn't keep flocking over here. They're like drug dealers - "well, if they don't get it from me, they'll just get it from somewhere else :shrug: "

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

This should be considered. If employers didn't BREAK THE LAW by hiring these people, they wouldn't keep flocking over here. They're like drug dealers - "well, if they don't get it from me, they'll just get it from somewhere else :shrug: "

...lock 'em up. Their businesses shut down, the lawyers start buying new Ferraris, the economy is impacted for the rest of us. They're still here. Now, they're no longer cheating the tax man. They're unemployed. Good start.

Then what?

 

[Larry Gude]

Where is all this going if...

This should be considered. If employers didn't BREAK THE LAW by hiring these people, they wouldn't keep flocking over here. They're like drug dealers - "well, if they don't get it from me, they'll just get it from somewhere else :shrug: "

...employers hiring the cheapest help they can get are now of a kind with drug dealers?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Normal thinking fairly conservative people are turning into 'progressives'.
...

I am thinking the same thing about you.

 

[2ndAmendment]

..not end of argument. What now? Federal Bureau of Get Out?

Put employers behind bars? Open up camps? Bring in the military? What is your solution? This is just conversation; you don't have to make it happen. Maybe you have THE solution?

I have a SS and birth cert to. I'll bet you Mohamed Atta did as well.

The numbers are the numbers. If they ain't exact, they're pretty damn close. Or maybe we don't have 10 million here illegally and maybe they aren't working?

We already have the INS; it is their job. If employers break laws now, they can wind up behind bars just like anyone who breaks the law, so what is different? Yes, if the employer breaks the law, hefty fine first time, behind bars second time.

Maybe Atta did, but were they on file at a government agency? Could they be checked? Would they pass? If an instant check can be done for gun purchases, and instant check can be done for employment.

The numbers according to Larry are in dispute. If I were an illegal, it would not take me long to figure out I needed to claim enough exemptions on my W-4 to have little or no withholding, the only thing I would be paying is the 7.65% FICA. So the employer pays another 7.65%. By your way of figuring, that 15.3% is free money. OK. No one is going to claim it ... except the "progressives" want to give Social Security and all the other freebies to illegal aliens. So where does the "free" 15.3% go? Up in smoke with the "free" education for their kids, "free" health care, "free" meals for the underprivileged; "free" meaning paid for by real taxpayers. And odds are, the illegals are being paid under the table and no taxes are being paid at all. Heck, that is done all the time for U.S. born and raised citizens.

Part of my plan is: at random the INS shows up at a job site and checks everyone for SS cards and green cards or work visas (better be the right type; not usually issued for construction jobs). At the same time, the IRS shows up at the office of the company. Employment records please. Oops. They don't match. Somebody is going to the slammer and somebody is going back where they came from.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...lock 'em up. Their businesses shut down, the lawyers start buying new Ferraris, the economy is impacted for the rest of us. They're still here. Now, they're no longer cheating the tax man. They're unemployed. Good start.

Then what?

They are not unemployed. They are gone. They are here illegally. They have no right to be here. Find them. Put them on first flight or boat back to their origin. If their origin cannot be determined, put them in jail. They are here illegally. OK, in jail, they cost us money, but hey, put them on work details to earn their keep. After a while, with no money coming in and still having to work, they will be happy to tell where they are from and happy to go back.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...employers hiring the cheapest help they can get are now of a kind with drug dealers?

What don't you understand about the word "illegal"? You are arguing like a Democrat.