Individual rights vs Ebola Quarintines

[Midnightrider]

Could you tell me where there are outbreaks of any of these diseases which are killing 5000 people this year? I haven't heard of any. In reference to your earlier edit. What's with the straw man argument. You do know how you get cholera right? You do understand the difference between aids and ebola and the manner in which both can be transmitted correct? Swine flu? Killed two in all of the 2014. I'm sorry for you to understand this is at epidemic levels but it is. Can you honestly say if there were 100,000 Americans effected with ebola you wouldn't be angry at the government for not doing something? Quarentine laws have been in place for hundreds of years, and have been found to be legal since 1824. That is why we are a country which learns from our mistakes to try to protect those who won't protect themselves.

from wiki:

The WHO estimates that in 2010 there were 219 million cases of malaria resulting in 660,000 deaths.[3][98] Others have estimated the number of cases at between 350 and 550 million for falciparum malaria[99] and deaths in 2010 at 1.24 million[100] up from 1.0 million deaths in 1990.[

 

[PeoplesElbow]

I would like to know why anyone against quarantining these people think that states do not have the right to do so?

I think NJ did a bad job of it using a tent without running water toilet etc, they could have used something like an RV, wired her in cable, internet etc.

I would also like to add that coming into the country from an international flight customs can detain you for a while to go through your suitcase full of underwear, is this really any different?

 

[Makavide]

Could you tell me where there are outbreaks of any of these diseases which are killing 5000 people this year? I haven't heard of any. In reference to your earlier edit. What's with the straw man argument. You do know how you get cholera right? You do understand the difference between aids and ebola and the manner in which both can be transmitted correct? Swine flu? Killed two in all of the 2014. I'm sorry for you to understand this is at epidemic levels but it is. Can you honestly say if there were 100,000 Americans effected with ebola you wouldn't be angry at the government for not doing something? Quarentine laws have been in place for hundreds of years, and have been found to be legal since 1824. That is why we are a country which learns from our mistakes to try to protect those who won't protect themselves.

More people die from the flu, which is easier to transmit, yet I am sure more people go to work when they have it instead of staying home.

2009 H1N1 Flu Pandemic - between 8,870 and 18,300 deaths in the United States and up to 203,000 deaths worldwide

The 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic was the first pandemic for which a large supply of flu vaccine was available, although it came as cases were already peaking in the United States. A limited supply of flu vaccine was also available during the 1968 pandemic, but again, by the time it was available, cases had already peaked.

Deaths from Flu

Even in a non-pandemic year, a lot of people die from the flu, usually because of secondary complications, such as pneumonia or complications of chronic medical problems.

Most people are aware of the 36,000 yearly flu deaths estimate that many experts use. This was an average number of flu deaths that experts found during the 1990s.

An estimate that uses a much longer time frame, including more recent flu seasons, from 1976 to 2007, has found an average of 23,607 deaths.

There is a lot of variability from year to year, though, with a low of 3,349 deaths during the 1986-87 flu season to a high of 48,614 in 2003-04, which was considered a severe flu season.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/kidsandtheflu/a/deaths-from-flu.htm

 

[rdytogo]

from wiki:

Thanks for the information on a disease which can not be transmitted through casual contact. Very nice straw man argument. If you are going to tell me you were simply answering my question than I would direct you to read my question.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Could you tell me where there are outbreaks of any of these diseases which are killing 5000 people this year? I haven't heard of any. In reference to your earlier edit. What's with the straw man argument. You do know how you get cholera right? You do understand the difference between aids and ebola and the manner in which both can be transmitted correct? Swine flu? Killed two in all of the 2014. I'm sorry for you to understand this is at epidemic levels but it is. Can you honestly say if there were 100,000 Americans effected with ebola you wouldn't be angry at the government for not doing something? Quarentine laws have been in place for hundreds of years, and have been found to be legal since 1824. That is why we are a country which learns from our mistakes to try to protect those who won't protect themselves.

If you want me to cover them, I will, but I think others have proven my point.

Remember, while you argue about ways to contract the infections, this conversation is about being "cautious based on POTENTIAL". The things I mentioned, while not having the same transmittal requirements (some are more easily contracted, some are less), do have the potential to be bad, and based on historical numbers, worse than Ebola.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Thanks for the information on a disease which can not be transmitted through casual contact. Very nice straw man argument. If you are going to tell me you were simply answering my question than I would direct you to read my question.

Ebola can be transmitted through casual contact?

Do you casually come in contact with one's bodily fluids?

 

[Midnightrider]

Thanks for the information on a disease which can not be transmitted through casual contact. Very nice straw man argument. If you are going to tell me you were simply answering my question than I would direct you to read my question.

i read your question, you are welcome to go to wiki for the 'where' part, but thats way more than 5000 deaths this year.

BTW, malaria is probably much easier to contract than ebola. It might not be from casual contact, but neither is ebola. that is a common misconception. As for risk of infection, i'd much rather have to deal with one where i would have to be in intamate contact with someone elses bodily fluids than be worried about every mosquito bite. but thats just me :shrug:

 

[rdytogo]

Ebola can be transmitted through casual contact?

Do you casually come in contact with one's bodily fluids?

I have been sneezed on by people, yes.

 

[rdytogo]

If you want me to cover them, I will, but I think others have proven my point.

Remember, while you argue about ways to contract the infections, this conversation is about being "cautious based on POTENTIAL". The things I mentioned, while not having the same transmittal requirements (some are more easily contracted, some are less), do have the potential to be bad, and based on historical numbers, worse than Ebola.

Yes, I'd like you to cover them. Give me a disease which has the same implications and lack of cure that ebola does. Give me the disease which can be transmitted in the same fasion. Give me the disease which one can not be vaccinated against.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Millions of people get the flu every year, most dont have to be hospitalized or even have to go see a Dr to recover. Find me one case of Ebola where the person just stayed home in bed watching daytime TV that recovered.

 

[Larry Gude]

Millions of people get the flu every year, most dont have to be hospitalized or even have to go see a Dr to recover. Find me one case of Ebola where the person just stayed home in bed watching daytime TV that recovered.

Given it is not fatal to 30% of the people who get it in ####hole Africa, I would argue that the only reason they didn't stay home and watch TV in the bed until they got better would be a, no TV, b, no home or c, no bed.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled hysteria....

 

[Lurk]

More Americans have died in Ted Kennedy's car than from Ebola.

zero, nada, no Americans have died from Ebola, right?

 

[Merlin99]

Off the top of my head?

Malaria, Tuberculosis, Yellow Fever, Pertussis, Flu, Meningitis, SARS, Measles, etc.

Sure, we have the treatment for most of these, but they all have the potential to be bad.

And their all already here, that's a case of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped. If there had been a chance to keep these diseases out by keeping someone in purgatory for three weeks millions of lives would have been saved.

 

[Larry Gude]

And their all already here, that's a case of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped. If there had been a chance to keep these diseases out by keeping someone in purgatory for three weeks millions of lives would have been saved.

Maybe but, what about the next one and the one after that? This isn't a zero sum game where you can move one piece and it doesn't affect anything else. This is biology and everything is trying to live and nothing can live without consuming something else. Harmony is simply a temporary condition where the weak have been consumed for a time by the strong for a time until the next strong comes along. Nature.

 

[Merlin99]

Maybe but, what about the next one and the one after that? This isn't a zero sum game where you can move one piece and it doesn't affect anything else. This is biology and everything is trying to live and nothing can live without consuming something else. Harmony is simply a temporary condition where the weak have been consumed for a time by the strong for a time until the next strong comes along. Nature.

Because you can't stop them all, you're solution is to stop none? Since we can't catch all illegal aliens, we shouldn't catch any? Since we can't catch all bank robbers, we shouldn't catch any? There are lots of metaphors against your argument, but I can't think of one that agrees with it.
One thing I learned in biology class years and years ago which has stuck with me because it just seemed wrong is that virus's aren't alive. They lack the biological processes to be considered living.

 

[mamatutu]

Because you can't stop them all, you're solution is to stop none? Since we can't catch all illegal aliens, we shouldn't catch any? Since we can't catch all bank robbers, we shouldn't catch any? There are lots of metaphors against your argument, but I can't think of one that agrees with it.
One thing I learned in biology class years and years ago which has stuck with me because it just seemed wrong is that virus's aren't alive. They lack the biological processes to be considered living.

I remember that, too! They can't reproduce without a living cell. And, is why antibiotics cannot treat a virus. Which leads me to what I have been thinking about today. We never know what Obama will do with his exec privilege. There is talk that he will allow infected people in Africa to come here for treatment, just as there is talk he will declare blanket amnesty to aliens right after the election. Why in gawd's name would anyone intentionally bring infected people to the US; especially when there are very few isolation units, and the cost to build/treat is astronomical. We are not responsible for a disease that started somewhere else; we are only responsible for the brave souls that volunteered to help. We have fought for years to eradicate disease from our country through research, vaccines, etc. Why would it even be a thought to bring a disease here where at this time, there is no vaccine? Sometimes, I think Obama has some sinister agenda for this country. Why does he hate America when he has been given the highest privilege? I could be wrong, but I see too much evidence.

 

[Midnightrider]

I remember that, too! They can't reproduce without a living cell. And, is why antibiotics cannot treat a virus. Which leads me to what I have been thinking about today. We never know what Obama will do with his exec privilege. There is talk that he will allow infected people in Africa to come here for treatment, just as there is talk he will declare blanket amnesty to aliens right after the election. Why in gawd's name would anyone intentionally bring infected people to the US; especially when there are very few isolation units, and the cost to build/treat is astronomical. We are not responsible for a disease that started somewhere else; we are only responsible for the brave souls that volunteered to help. We have fought for years to eradicate disease from our country through research, vaccines, etc. Why would it even be a thought to bring a disease here where at this time, there is no vaccine? Sometimes, I think Obama has some sinister agenda for this country. Why does he hate America when he has been given the highest privilege? I could be wrong, but I see too much evidence.

Hey dumb ass, we have been bringing them here all year. Apparently we have several effective treatments here in the US which is wh we don't have numerous dead nurses and doctors.....

 

[Merlin99]

Hey dumb ass, we have been bringing them here all year. Apparently we have several effective treatments here in the US which is wh we don't have numerous dead nurses and doctors.....

How many people here in the US have had ebola and been cured with the vaccine? I'll give you a hint, you're left hand has more fingers.

 

[Midnightrider]

How many people here in the US have had ebola and been cured with the vaccine? I'll give you a hint, you're left hand has more fingers.

Actually none have been cured with a vaccine, but the number who have been cured in the US is considerably higher than the number who have died from Ebola in the US.

 

[mamatutu]

Actually none have been cured with a vaccine, but the number who have been cured in the US is considerably higher than the number who have died from Ebola in the US.

Well, you are coming around. Two cases were cured (the docs that volunteered in Africa) with the only experimental (tobacco) vaccine. The two nurses were cured with plasma from one of those docs. The case in NY, I am not sure how they are treating him. I am not sure why Mr. Duncan died. Seems strange. But, do you really think if there is a horribl outbreak here, that we can handle it? You are sadly mistaken. I think the MSM keeps a lot from us, but I believe them when they say we are not prepared for such a horrible epidemic. Even our gov/CDC says there are not enough isolation units in place. This is the modern era, not Medieval times. There should have been a block in place for incomings from the beginning. Thank you, Obama. Way to lead!