Is it possible for gays to go to heaven?

[migtig]

Hell doesn't exist. The only place it does exist is in some mis-translations of the word "sheol".

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."

So there is no hell in Genesis...that's when G-d created everything you know...

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten. 9:6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy has perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun".

So this says when you die, well you are dead. :shrug:

But then people turn to this (and a few other passages) and say there must be a hell:
(Ecclesiastes 9:7) "Go your way—eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has already accepted your works. 9:8 Let your garments be always white, and don’t let your head lack oil. 9:9 Live joyfully with the wife whom you love all the days of your life of vanity, which he has given you under the sun, all your days of vanity: for that is your portion in life, and in your labor in which you labor under the sun. 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going".

Sheol - your grave...the place where only G-d remembers you. Sheol is NOT Hell.

But hey, everytime it's pointed out that the folks who did the translations were only human and mistakes happen, somebody gets all pissy and says not to their bible it doesn't happen.

This is when I quote this
Good-Nature and Good-Sense must ever join; To Err is Humane; to Forgive, Divine.
[1711 Pope Essay on Criticism l. 525]

So :shrug: Believe what you want. But it is kind of funny that the modern interpretation of Hell is based on Hel (look it up) and Hades.

 

[Misfit]

I don't have it in me to always be nice to people so I'm sure that there's a place reserved in hell for me.

Are you sure you'd want to go to meamie hell?

 

[stockgirl]

Are you sure you'd want to go to meamie hell?

How dare you post a pic of Kris (not Kris10)!

 

[hotcoffee]

Now we're at the reason I brought this whole matter up and now I'm glad I couldn't delete the thread.

OK.... I know a man who lives on the Eastern Shore. He is bi-sexual. Actually he's bi-polar and when he's in a manic phase he tends to exhibit homosexual behavior. He's had a couple of long term homosexual relationships over the years. He's also been married twice and has three children by the first marriage. Within the last 10 years he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder.

Anyway.... when he's taking his medication for the bi-polar disorder he's really a good hearted person who would do anything to be just, moral and honorable.

About 30-35 years ago this man followed his wife to a revival. He stood [didn't sit] at the back of the church and at the alter call, he ran [not walked but ran] to the alter yelling "I'm Saved".

His wife [the first one with whom he has three children] was mortified by this because she knows him. The church people didn't know him because he didn't attend church with her. They were thrilled because of this display. She remained quiet because the church was making such a big deal out of it.

Several weeks later the pastor of the church made his regular home visit. She confided in the pastor telling him about her husband's past. She told him that one of the reasons they had moved to the area was to get her husband away from the latest affair he had been in. They were trying to repair the marriage for the sake of their child.

The pastor pulled out his Bible. He went to the New Testament and went to the letters [I think it was in Jude]. He said he didn't want to tell her what to do but he did want to show her a verse. The verse told her that she didn't have to stay in the marriage if the marriage was going to cause her to loose her faith.

The pastor had no idea that this woman had already been put through some miserable trials due to this marriage and her faith had sustained her. He was only aware that this woman believed that marriage is a lifetime commitment according to the Bible.

This Bible verse allowed her to look at things in a different light and it allowed her to take a different path a few years later. Yes... she stayed to try to save the marriage and had two more children before things got much worse and she had to leave with the three children and the clothes on their backs.

I don't know if this man found salvation on that night or if he found salvation after that. I have heard that he attends a Methodist or Presbyterian church but I don't know if his attendance is regular or if he has responded to any other alter calls.

Salvation is a personal thing and I really hope that he did enter into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I know that Jesus is the only way to heaven. I do know that no matter how just, moral, and honorable any man is, you cannot earn your way to heaven. You must be born again.

I wonder though.... is it possible that this man did indeed find salvation that night at the revival.

I'm pulling this up again so that maybe someone will note that this particular person went to a revival and claims to have been saved.

Later he relapsed and turned violent too. His wife had to leave with the three children in the middle of the night with the clothes on their backs.

Is it possible that this man did indeed find salvation that night of the revival and then because of the bi-polar disorder relapse?

 

[stockgirl]

I'm pulling this up again so that maybe someone will note that this particular person went to a revival and claims to have been saved.

Later he relapsed and turned violent too. His wife had to leave with the three children in the middle of the night with the clothes on their backs.

Is it possible that this man did indeed find salvation that night of the revival and then because of the bi-polar disorder relapse?

Is it possible that the wife was a complete idiot for staying with the man for all of those years?

 

[MMM_donuts]

Worst case...there isn't and you decided there was so you weren’t a meamie to people, but what if it is true?

You think religious people are nice to others?! What if there isn't a heaven or hell and you (not you specifically) had oppressed homosexuals, convincing the that they were wrong, sinful, and made their only life a living hell? Or your own life a living hell, staying in bad relationships and exposing children to it, continuing the cycle.

If I'm wrong, I'm going to hell - just me. If you're wrong, nothing happens to you but you inflicted pain on the lives of other people. My personal opinion is that since no one actually knows for sure whether homosexuality is wrong, natural or unnatural, I'm not going to judge others for it and I'm surely not going to do anything to restrict their lifestyle.

 

[Bavarian]

A Homosexual person can get to Heaven if he/she lives a life of bstience from homosexual acts. Just like unmarried hetrosexuals do. If the slip, they can go to Confession and have their sins forgiven by Christ through a priest. But, they must make a firm promise not to commit that sin again. Same with women who have their unborn baby killed, they can be forgiven, but must change their ways.

Homosexuals can live a chaste life.

 

[stockgirl]

A Homosexual person can get to Heaven if he/she lives a life of bstience from homosexual acts. Just like unmarried hetrosexuals do. If the slip, they can go to Confession and have their sins forgiven by Christ through a priest. But, they must make a firm promise not to commit that sin again. Same with women who have their unborn baby killed, they can be forgiven, but must change their ways.

Homosexuals can live a chaste life.

And this is exactly why I'm not Christian. Bunch O' Hypocritical #######s!

 

[Misfit]

And this is exactly why I'm not Christian. Bunch O' Hypocritical #######s!

and Biblically incorrect.

 

[stockgirl]

and Biblically incorrect.

Bunch O' Incorrect Hypocritical #######s.


Better?

 

[b23hqb]

You think religious people are nice to others?! What if there isn't a heaven or hell and you (not you specifically) had oppressed homosexuals, convincing the that they were wrong, sinful, and made their only life a living hell? Or your own life a living hell, staying in bad relationships and exposing children to it, continuing the cycle.

If I'm wrong, I'm going to hell - just me. If you're wrong, nothing happens to you but you inflicted pain on the lives of other people. My personal opinion is that since no one actually knows for sure whether homosexuality is wrong, natural or unnatural, I'm not going to judge others for it and I'm surely not going to do anything to restrict their lifestyle.

Your choice. Doesn't matter what you or I or anybody else thinks about what/where homosexuality is, about heaven or hell, about God or the Bible or not, etc.

Based on what God says, what His bible says, your decision will determine your eternal fate. Like it or not.

If you think eternity is worth risking, go for it. Even the big o can't help you there.

Except for the guarantee that if you pay taxes, you will go into eternity broke.

Just hope you are not morally/salvationally bankrupt as well. Because that is a debt that even God will not pay for.

 

[Hank]

A Homosexual person can get to Heaven if he/she lives a life of bstience from homosexual acts. Just like unmarried hetrosexuals do. If the slip, they can go to Confession and have their sins forgiven by Christ through a priest. But, they must make a firm promise not to commit that sin again. Same with women who have their unborn baby killed, they can be forgiven, but must change their ways.

Homosexuals can live a chaste life.

 

[b23hqb]

This would have fit the thread better:

Blues Brothers - the 'I've always loved you' car chase - YouTube

 

[hotcoffee]

You think religious people are nice to others?! What if there isn't a heaven or hell and you (not you specifically) had oppressed homosexuals, convincing the that they were wrong, sinful, and made their only life a living hell? Or your own life a living hell, staying in bad relationships and exposing children to it, continuing the cycle. If I'm wrong, I'm going to hell - just me. If you're wrong, nothing happens to you but you inflicted pain on the lives of other people. My personal opinion is that since no one actually knows for sure whether homosexuality is wrong, natural or unnatural, I'm not going to judge others for it and I'm surely not going to do anything to restrict their lifestyle.

The question is not about oppressing homosexuals.

Note... this person was married. That's adultry at the very least. He ruined the life of that woman, who thought she married a good man who would love her and care for her and their family for a lifetime. Instead he went off with other men.... even carried the other men home in front of her.... then when she forgave him for his adulterous affairs [including with other men] because she felt marriage is a lifelong committment [check the vows] he lasted through two more children and then went off again... then got violent... beat her up and tried to throw her out of a car. [granted I left that part out of the original story but I figured most people must have figured out that something bad must have happened for her to leave with the babies and the clothes on their backs after being so forgiving]

The question is about can a person who has these tendencies be saved as he claimed in the church revival that night.

I haven't given my opinion.... I'm sure a lot of you won't like it.... but the fact is Christians are the ones who believe in Heaven.

We're the ones who believe there is a Heaven. We are the ones who believe that Jesus [our personal Savior] died on the cross for our sins and was raised again from the dead on the third day and now sits as an intercessor for us.

This is a forum on religion. I'm asking... is it possible that this person is indeed going to heaven. Contrary to what you may think... we [Christians] care about our fellow man.... and we would like to see everyone go to heaven...

If this man's goose is cooked... we'd like to talk with him and offer our help [if he needs it]. Remember also that he has been diagnosed as bi-polar and it's during bi-polar manic periods he went off and got a boyfriend.

Remember, too, this incident started 30-35 years ago.... that's right before we found out about AIDS. Talk about oppressing someone... what about the wife who stuck with him and the children she had with him. They are lucky he didn't bring AIDS home to her to pass along to them.

The Bible says that God abhors homosexual activity. Maybe these are some of the reasons He hates it so much. It has been heartbreaking for the man, his wife, his children and the others who know and care for him. Now we're at the point of wondering if this good man [remember when he's on his meds he's a good man, a loving caring father] has found salvation so he can see his loved ones when he leaves here.

So it's not an oppressive mean spirited quest here. We are genuinely concerned about this man and his eternal destiny.

Now can we go back to the original question.... can he find salvation and I guess I should ask.... how should we approach this with him.... His wife didn't believe it at the revival but she doesn't want the father of her three children to go to hell because of a series of manic homosexual events.

 

[MMM_donuts]

The question is not about oppressing homosexuals.

Note... this person was married. That's adultry at the very least. He ruined the life of that woman, who thought she married a good man who would love her and care for her and their family for a lifetime. Instead he went off with other men.... even carried the other men home in front of her.... then when she forgave him for his adulterous affairs [including with other men] because she felt marriage is a lifelong committment [check the vows] he lasted through two more children and then went off again... then got violent... beat her up and tried to throw her out of a car. [granted I left that part out of the original story but I figured most people must have figured out that something bad must have happened for her to leave with the babies and the clothes on their backs after being so forgiving]

The question is about can a person who has these tendencies be saved as he claimed in the church revival that night.

I haven't given my opinion.... I'm sure a lot of you won't like it.... but the fact is Christians are the ones who believe in Heaven.

We're the ones who believe there is a Heaven. We are the ones who believe that Jesus [our personal Savior] died on the cross for our sins and was raised again from the dead on the third day and now sits as an intercessor for us.

This is a forum on religion. I'm asking... is it possible that this person is indeed going to heaven. Contrary to what you may think... we [Christians] care about our fellow man.... and we would like to see everyone go to heaven...

If this man's goose is cooked... we'd like to talk with him and offer our help [if he needs it]. Remember also that he has been diagnosed as bi-polar and it's during bi-polar manic periods he went off and got a boyfriend.

Remember, too, this incident started 30-35 years ago.... that's right before we found out about AIDS. Talk about oppressing someone... what about the wife who stuck with him and the children she had with him. They are lucky he didn't bring AIDS home to her to pass along to them.

The Bible says that God abhors homosexual activity. Maybe these are some of the reasons He hates it so much. It has been heartbreaking for the man, his wife, his children and the others who know and care for him. Now we're at the point of wondering if this good man [remember when he's on his meds he's a good man, a loving caring father] has found salvation so he can see his loved ones when he leaves here.

So it's not an oppressive mean spirited quest here. We are genuinely concerned about this man and his eternal destiny.

Now can we go back to the original question.... can he find salvation and I guess I should ask.... how should we approach this with him.... His wife didn't believe it at the revival but she doesn't want the father of her three children to go to hell because of a series of manic homosexual events.

My post was in no way directed to you or the original post - it was to misfit's post only, which I quoted specifically. It is not appropriate to apply what I posted to your friend's situation.

Of all the horrible things this man has done to his family, you feel his homosexual tendencies are what would prevent him from going to heaven so much so that you titled the thread about his homosexuality and left out the spousal abuse, lying, and adultery? Are the rest of the details some sort of afterthought that doesn't need mentioning until later?

 

[cheezgrits]

This is true, but ALL nonChristians don't "qualify" either. Most people go to hell.
Luke 13:24- “Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.”

Care to quantify the statement that "most" people go to hell?

 

[Radiant1]

The question is about can a person who has these tendencies be saved as he claimed in the church revival that night.

Now can we go back to the original question.... can he find salvation and I guess I should ask.... how should we approach this with him.... His wife didn't believe it at the revival but she doesn't want the father of her three children to go to hell because of a series of manic homosexual events.

What you're really asking is was he once saved always saved? Could he have been saved at the revival? Sure. Was he saved at the revival? Only God knows. Is he morally culpable due to his illness? Only God knows. It's not your or her job to save the man, it's God's. Leave it up to Him.

 

[hotcoffee]

My post was in no way directed to you or the original post - it was to misfit's post only, which I quoted specifically. It is not appropriate to apply what I posted to your friend's situation.

Sorry... I thought you were directing them at me.... my error. Thanks for clearing that up.

Of all the horrible things this man has done to his family, you feel his homosexual tendencies are what would prevent him from going to heaven so much so that you titled the thread about his homosexuality and left out the spousal abuse, lying, and adultery? Are the rest of the details some sort of afterthought that doesn't need mentioning until later?

The bible doesn't say that God abhors a person who lies or beats his wife. It doesn't say that God abhors a person who steals. It says God abhors homosexuality.

Then to top that off, people talk about accepting homosexuality but rebuke evangelical Christians. It's all very confusing to me. But these are confusing times I guess.

It's been my experience that most homosexuals are very deceitful. Don't get me wrong... I've known a few very nice homosexuals over my very long life. I have to say tho.... the majority of them tho... are not so very honest. Maybe it's because they are waiting to be attacked. That could be it... but I've met very few who weren't deceitful people. It's almost as if it's part of the lifestyle.

I've also noticed that Christians seem to tiptoe around talking about eternal life with homosexuals and bisexuals. I don't want to sit back and say nothing if this man is lip syncing salvation. I believe he does go to church but I don't know if he goes regularly. He knows what the Bible says about homosexuality. It might be holding him back.

 

[hotcoffee]

Care to quantify the statement that "most" people go to hell?

Cheezgrits like I said in an earlier post. Heaven is for Christians.

Christians are people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Christians believe the Bible and Heaven is in the Bible. There is not Heaven in Atheism. It's a Christian reward.

The majority of people haven't accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of people in the churches [even preachers] who haven't accepted Christ as well.

Non-Messianic Jews haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They won't go to heaven either until they do.

Humans want it both ways.... they want to dance at the party but they don't want to pay the admission.

Christians also believe in Hell. It's the opposite of Heaven and it's written about in the New Testament [the Christian Books]. Christians believe if you're not going to Heaven then you are going to Hell. There is no in between. [Catholics believe in an in between but I'm Protestant and I don't believe in anything in between Heaven and Hell] You're either in or you're not. That's the belief.

That's the way I read it.

 

[cheezgrits]

Leviticus? Pretty sure your god abhors sexual immorality, not homosexuals. Looking through some of the old testament, your god considers pork and swine an abomination so I guess us bacon eaters are done. Also noticed one that says rape is ok as long as he marries her, otherwise..stone her.

Wow. May need to re-read the old testaments again, forgot what a story they are.