Is it possible for gays to go to heaven?

[hotcoffee]

Leviticus? Pretty sure your god abhors sexual immorality, not homosexuals. Looking through some of the old testament, your god considers pork and swine an abomination so I guess us bacon eaters are done. Also noticed one that says rape is ok as long as he marries her, otherwise..stone her.

Wow. May need to re-read the old testaments again, forgot what a story they are.

Yeah, I just finished reading it myself. Homosexuality is described in the Bible as a man laying with a man or a woman laying with a woman. That's the definition of Old Testament sexual immorality. Or that's what I read anyway.

In the Old Testament, the earth opened up and swallowed a bunch of Levites. It's a really interesting read.

Heaven is in the New Testament. Us bacon eaters like the New Testament much better. There's forgiveness in the New Testament.

 

[cheezgrits]

Cheezgrits like I said in an earlier post. Heaven is for Christians.

Christians are people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Christians believe the Bible and Heaven is in the Bible. There is not Heaven in Atheism. It's a Christian reward.

The majority of people haven't accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of people in the churches [even preachers] who haven't accepted Christ as well.

Non-Messianic Jews haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They won't go to heaven either until they do.

Humans want it both ways.... they want to dance at the party but they don't want to pay the admission.

Christians also believe in Hell. It's the opposite of Heaven and it's written about in the New Testament [the Christian Books]. Christians believe if you're not going to Heaven then you are going to Hell. There is no in between. [Catholics believe in an in between but I'm Protestant and I don't believe in anything in between Heaven and Hell] You're either in or you're not. That's the belief.

That's the way I read it.

Appreciate your belief and respect it. I simply think it was hyperbole to make a claim that most people go to hell. Can't be quantified.

 

[Starman3000m]

Appreciate your belief and respect it. I simply think it was hyperbole to make a claim that most people go to hell. Can't be quantified.

Hi cheezgrits.

Actually the Bible does quantify the situation by indicating that there will be fewer people that choose to accept Salvation through Christ while many will choose an alternate way that leads to the path of destruction of their soul. This includes people who think they can "earn" their way and merit entry into Heaven on their own "good works".

Also, one of your earlier posts made reference to "wolves" - as does the Holy Bible. Except the wolves in the Bible are defined as being the false teachers/false prophets who lead people away from what we know as the Red Road and onto another path that turns out to be a dead end.

Here are the accounts:

The Narrow and Wide Gates

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

True and False Prophets

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

(Matthew 7:13-15)

and;

For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matthew 22:14)

And here is where the "many" and the "few" have made their individual choice:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
(John 3:16-21)

 

[mamatutu]

All points made on this thread are valid because we all believe differently because we are all different, but, in the end, we are all the same, as in human. It is always confusing because we don't have time anymore to contemplate in the true sense. I love reading all the responses on the religion thread; it helps me to take the time to contemplate. Keep up the good work, information, and opinions! Someday, I will have something worthy to contribute. Thank you!

 

[MDSupremacist]

Ideally, you are right and there is a hell and it is full of bad people who harmed others, true evil, tormented for all eternity.

Ideally, hell is not full of people who ate shell fish and liked it. Who worked on Sundays and never repented. Who don't think, and feel, exactly as you think they must in order to avoid eternal damnation.

Eating shellfish isn't a sin and ideally hell would be empty, but people choose to go there. Again, you have given yourself a nice comfort here in talking yourself out of believing in hell but it will be little comfort to you if you find yourself there.

 

[MDSupremacist]

Leviticus? Pretty sure your god abhors sexual immorality, not homosexuals. Looking through some of the old testament, your god considers pork and swine an abomination so I guess us bacon eaters are done. Also noticed one that says rape is ok as long as he marries her, otherwise..stone her.

Wow. May need to re-read the old testaments again, forgot what a story they are.

not all sexual immorality is as bad as sodomy. It's an unnatural act, not all sex is. Crimes against nature are worse.

 

[cheezgrits]

not all sexual immorality is as bad as sodomy. It's an unnatural act, not all sex is. Crimes against nature are worse.

So just so we're clear, you'd say rape or even infidelity is a "less" sexual immorality than sodomy?

So in your mind, even though the bible only specifies sexual immorality, you have taken it upon yourself to assign degrees of worse or less worse sexual immorality?

 

[MDSupremacist]

So just so we're clear, you'd say rape or even infidelity is a "less" sexual immorality than sodomy?

Yes, but those things are still grave sins. However they are not crimes against nature.

So in your mind, even though the bible only specifies sexual immorality, you have taken it upon yourself to assign degrees of worse or less worse sexual immorality?

No, the Bible says this. Try reading it.

 

[MDSupremacist]

Yes, but those things are still grave sins. However they are not crimes against nature.
No, the Bible says this. Try reading it.

Genesis 19
[6] Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said: [7] Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil. [8] I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof. [9] But they said: Get thee back thither. And again: Thou camest in, said they, as a, stranger, was it to be a judge? therefore we will afflict thee more than them. And they pressed very violently upon Lot: and they were even at the point of breaking open the doors. [10] And behold the men put out their hand, and drew in Lot unto them, and shut the door:

 

[cheezgrits]

You've made my point, thanks.

 

[MDSupremacist]

You've made my point, thanks.

I fail to see how this proves your point that I made up this rule. You've made my point, you haven't read Scripture, though you pretend to be an expert on the subject.

 

[cheezgrits]

Genesis 19
[6] Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said: [7] Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil. [8] I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof. [9] But they said: Get thee back thither. And again: Thou camest in, said they, as a, stranger, was it to be a judge? therefore we will afflict thee more than them. And they pressed very violently upon Lot: and they were even at the point of breaking open the doors. [10] And behold the men put out their hand, and drew in Lot unto them, and shut the door:

So in an acceptable show of then Asiatic cultural belief that hospitality dictates that a stranger under Lot's roof would be afforded protection, even at the peril of his life or his daughter's virtue relates to levels of sexual immorality how?

 

[cheezgrits]

I fail to see how this proves your point that I made up this rule. You've made my point, you haven't read Scripture, though you pretend to be an expert on the subject.

Again, your jumps to assumptions and conclusions are staggering. You make an un-quantifiable assumption that "most" people go to hell and now you assume I've never read the bible.

Go and read my other posts in the forum. I have never claimed to be an expert. I am not a Christian, but I can certainly ascertain what people say and interpret it.

I've read the bible, I just choose not to cherry pick certain passages to try to bolster my points of view. I read it for what it is.

 

[cheezgrits]

So, you assume Lot was a religious and pious man, read the rest of your quoted Genesis 19...lol...that Lot was a wine drinking daughter fornicator...nice example your bible sets out there...

30 ¶And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the amountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the afirstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 aAnd they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name aMoab: the same is the father of the bMoabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of aAmmon unto this day.

 

[MDSupremacist]

Again, your jumps to assumptions and conclusions are staggering.

Thanks for the opinion

You make an un-quantifiable assumption that "most" people go to hell and now you assume I've never read the bible.

It's not an assumption, Scripture says it CLEARLY, the saints have said it repeatedly, and the Church says it. I'm not assuming you haven't read the Bible, it's obvious from your posts.

Go and read my other posts in the forum. I have never claimed to be an expert. I am not a Christian, but I can certainly ascertain what people say and interpret it.

I'm not talking about other posts, you're making claims that certain things aren't in Scripture when they are.

I've read the bible, I just choose not to cherry pick certain passages to try to bolster my points of view. I read it for what it is.

No, you opt to ignore their existence altogether. You've read it, yet are oblivious to verses. And you are most certainly cherry picking to bloster your pov. But you're salty when people counter that.

 

[cheezgrits]

Thanks for the opinion
It's not an assumption, Scripture says it CLEARLY, the saints have said it repeatedly, and the Church says it. I'm not assuming you haven't read the Bible, it's obvious from your posts.
I'm not talking about other posts, you're making claims that certain things aren't in Scripture when they are.

No, you opt to ignore their existence altogether. You've read it, yet are oblivious to verses. And you are most certainly cherry picking to bloster your pov. But you're salty when people counter that.

And another idiot goes to the ignore list.

 

[MDSupremacist]

I'm not going to get into any petty argument. Your posts speak for themselves. On several occasions Scripture makes it clear that sodomy is a sin worse than many other sexual sins. If you wish to reject this, I won't argue, but don't dispute that it's in Scripture. Scripture says it and nature proves it.

 

[thurley42]

Oh a new forum quack!!

 

[Hank]

Oh a new forum quack!!

smells like italianfraudscallion

 

[baydoll]

So, you assume Lot was a religious and pious man, read the rest of your quoted Genesis 19...lol...that Lot was a wine drinking daughter fornicator...nice example your bible sets out there...

ONCE AGAIN (sigh) the Bible never ever whitewash the dirty little secret of men's sins (including the OT Prophets), meaning it tells the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help us God, warts and all. Lot sinned (OMG!!!!!).

AGAIN this points out the fact that none of us (including the OT prophets) were/are (here's that dirty word again) perfect.

According to GotQuestion.org (which does a better job explaining this than I can) Genesis 19:31-32 tells us that "Lot’s daughters believed there would be no man for them and no children. This may be because they saw the destruction of Sodom and believed they were the only people left on earth. They were trying to preserve the family line. Why did Lot have sex with his own daughters? He got drunk. Yes, his daughters conspired to get him drunk, but Lot willingly drank and when he was drunk, he lost what little control and common sense he had (Genesis 19:30-38), and this is the final step in Lot’s backsliding. The lesson can we learn from this is when a person has too much to drink they do not make good choices and lose control of their morals and operate out of the sinful, carnal nature. As a result of the incest, two children were born and those two children are the fathers of two nations that have been at odds with and the source of much suffering to Israel down through history. "