Is it possible for gays to go to heaven?

rmorse

Well-Known Member
OK.... fine...

In my heart.... I know it's a much darker place, that dark chill that goes down the spine is much darker for an act of homosexuality than eating shellfish. It's harder to experience the light.... not by any means impossible but much harder. I know because I heard it from the mouths of homosexuals themselves.

You can call me names, label me a bigot, tell me I'm wrong until the cows come home.... but I know that Jesus is the Light and He can save everyone who comes to Him.

I noticed that there is one particular person on this forum who may have some first hand knowledge of what I am describing here.... It's a different man than I am talking about but he knows how dark that place can be. I noticed that he has not commented on this thread at all. Interesting.....
:coffee:

And THIS is the issue I have.

So, you (and most christians) know more than the bible.

You're toting your own opinion as if it's the word of god.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
So, reading my above quote....please (anyone) post exactly where the NT states that homosexuality is a ticket straight to hell. Post where, in the NT, it's stated that homosexuality is worse than any other sin (like lying to your parents).

As mentioned in a previous post, homosexuality is but one of many sins that are contrary to God and, thus, everyone is brought into judgment for one thing or another. That is the reason for needing Christ's Atoning Blood that promises God's Forgiveness and cleanses us from sin - any sin. The key, however, is repentance - turning away from that sin and trusting God for His spiritual strength and guidance throughout life.

You asked for specifics about homosexuality being a ticket straight to hell, but Scriptures does not limit it to that one sinful act as noted in the following verses.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:20-31)

We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
(1 Timothy 1:8-11)


He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:6-9)

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
(Revelation 22:14-16)

Christ did not come to save the righteous but to save sinners. (btw: There is none who is "righteous" - Romans 3:10) He asks people to trust Him alone as personal Lord and Saviour. for Without the Atoning Blood of Christ we would all be lost through our sin and condemned to hell.

Forgiveness is yours for the asking by inviting Christ into your life to be your Lord and Saviour and surrendering your life to His Guidance.
 
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rmorse

Well-Known Member
As mentioned in a previous post, homosexuality is but one of many sins that are contrary to God and, thus, everyone is brought into judgment for one thing or another. That is the reason for needing Christ's Atoning Blood that promises God's Forgiveness and cleanses us from sin - any sin. The key, however, is repentance - turning away from that sin and trusting God for His spiritual strength and guidance throughout life.

You asked for specifics about homosexuality being a ticket straight to hell, but Scriptures does not limit it to that one sinful act as noted in the following verses.



Christ did not come to save the righteous but to save sinners. (btw: There is none who is "righteous" - Romans 3:10) He asks people to trust Him alone as personal Lord and Saviour. for Without the Atoning Blood of Christ we would all be lost through our sin and condemned to hell.

Forgiveness is yours for the asking by inviting Christ into your life to be your Lord and Saviour and surrendering your life to His Guidance.

Please note, my main point is that homosexuality is not any different than any other sin.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Yes, I noted that. However, homosexuality is one sin that condemns people to hell. The point of the thread.

Individual acts of sin don’t condemn us to hell. Sin – by concept of blemish – condemns us to hell. By virtue of being born we are sinful. Our sinful nature causes us to commit sinful acts. Because we accept Christ as our savior does not cause us to stop sinning; we go on sinning. It’s the blemish of being sinful creatures that God has forgiven us for, not the actual sinful acts we routinely commit.

I don’t think God differentiates between someone that continues to be gay and someone that continues to speed, even though both have accepted Christ. Both are still consciously sinning. It’s what is in that person’s heart in an effort to stop sinning and being in a constant state of prayer asking for forgiveness.
 

rmorse

Well-Known Member
Individual acts of sin don’t condemn us to hell. Sin – by concept of blemish – condemns us to hell. By virtue of being born we are sinful. Our sinful nature causes us to commit sinful acts. Because we accept Christ as our savior does not cause us to stop sinning; we go on sinning. It’s the blemish of being sinful creatures that God has forgiven us for, not the actual sinful acts we routinely commit.

I don’t think God differentiates between someone that continues to be gay and someone that continues to speed, even though both have accepted Christ. Both are still consciously sinning. It’s what is in that person’s heart in an effort to stop sinning and being in a constant state of prayer asking for forgiveness.

Ed zachary.
 

StoneThrower

New Member
OK.... we've beat the Hurricane Sandy question to death :deadhorse ....

Let's go on to a new question..... k?


In your opinion.....
Is it possible for homosexuals to go to heaven?


:coffee:

Only A former gay, If you continue in sin your of the devil, If Christ isnt your Lord He's not your savior. Salvation requires repentance turning from sin and a Christian hates his sin. Someone may still have a same sex prefrence but they wont act upon it as a new creature in Christ. I would surprised if they still felt that way as the old has passed away and all things become new. If God can change a heart from hating Him to desiring Him why wouldnt that change?
 

StoneThrower

New Member
The question is not about oppressing homosexuals.

Note... this person was married. That's adultry at the very least. He ruined the life of that woman, who thought she married a good man who would love her and care for her and their family for a lifetime. Instead he went off with other men.... even carried the other men home in front of her.... then when she forgave him for his adulterous affairs [including with other men] because she felt marriage is a lifelong committment [check the vows] he lasted through two more children and then went off again... then got violent... beat her up and tried to throw her out of a car. [granted I left that part out of the original story but I figured most people must have figured out that something bad must have happened for her to leave with the babies and the clothes on their backs after being so forgiving]

The question is about can a person who has these tendencies be saved as he claimed in the church revival that night.

I haven't given my opinion.... I'm sure a lot of you won't like it.... but the fact is Christians are the ones who believe in Heaven.

We're the ones who believe there is a Heaven. We are the ones who believe that Jesus [our personal Savior] died on the cross for our sins and was raised again from the dead on the third day and now sits as an intercessor for us.

This is a forum on religion. I'm asking... is it possible that this person is indeed going to heaven. Contrary to what you may think... we [Christians] care about our fellow man.... and we would like to see everyone go to heaven...

If this man's goose is cooked... we'd like to talk with him and offer our help [if he needs it]. Remember also that he has been diagnosed as bi-polar and it's during bi-polar manic periods he went off and got a boyfriend.

Remember, too, this incident started 30-35 years ago.... that's right before we found out about AIDS. Talk about oppressing someone... what about the wife who stuck with him and the children she had with him. They are lucky he didn't bring AIDS home to her to pass along to them.

The Bible says that God abhors homosexual activity. Maybe these are some of the reasons He hates it so much. It has been heartbreaking for the man, his wife, his children and the others who know and care for him. Now we're at the point of wondering if this good man [remember when he's on his meds he's a good man, a loving caring father] has found salvation so he can see his loved ones when he leaves here.

So it's not an oppressive mean spirited quest here. We are genuinely concerned about this man and his eternal destiny.

Now can we go back to the original question.... can he find salvation and I guess I should ask.... how should we approach this with him.... His wife didn't believe it at the revival but she doesn't want the father of her three children to go to hell because of a series of manic homosexual events.

Why not look him up and ask him or write him a letter and send him the biggest Question DVD If you need one let me know.
That was a long time ago and God does change people, most would rather remain misserable in their sin than truely repent though.
You should call him!
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
Probably because you have previously cited stories and sayings from Native American teachings. I thought this was a Native American story you had heard that made fun of all Christians who say they trust in God to save them.
:shrug:

Really? After the respect I have shown you, you accuse me of "making fun" of christians?

Making the leap that Indians make fun of chirstian? Really? Hmmm

Really read the story and tell me you don't know people like that.

Being well versed in scripture quoting make one no more godly than reading case law makes one a lawyer.

Don't be so sensitive, be secure in your beliefs, when you defend them like you do, you cheapen them...
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Really? After the respect I have shown you, you accuse me of "making fun" of christians?

Making the leap that Indians make fun of chirstian? Really? Hmmm

Really read the story and tell me you don't know people like that.

Being well versed in scripture quoting make one no more godly than reading case law makes one a lawyer.

Don't be so sensitive, be secure in your beliefs, when you defend them like you do, you cheapen them...

C'mon, cheezgrits. You asked and I gave a truthful answer. It was obvious that the "story" you posted was poking fun at Christians who "trusted in God to save them" during a flood, thus their reason for not hopping onto the boat, etc.

Yes, it may be considered amusing and funny but the story still mocked Christians who trust God to save them as not having the common sense of knowing when they were being rescued in an emergency situation whether by a raft, a rescue boat or helicopter.

It's okay, cheezgrits. I know you personally didn't intend to poke fun but it did need to be addressed.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Show me where, in the NT, it condemns people to hell.

from post #142

He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
(Revelation 21:6-9)

Acknowledging sin as sin, abhoring that sin, repenting from it and accepting the Atoning Blood of Christ to cleanse you from that sin (any sin) is the escape from God's Wrath and Judgment that will come against an unrepentant and unbelieving world.

We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. We cannot "save" ourselves by our own efforts. Our only escape from hell is provided through the Atoning Blood of Christ and by inviting Him to be your Lord and Saviour.

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. (2 Peter 3:9-10)
 

MDSupremacist

New Member
False. Eating shellfish is clearly called out as a sin in the OT. Or are we back to claiming the OT doesn't really matter?
Not false, you didn't read or comprehend my post. It WAS a sin because those things were unclean. When Our Lord came He sanctified the world making the unclean clean. The rule didn't change, creation changed. You are ignoring the New Testament and the New Covenant and repeating a settled matter just to bait.


As I layed out above, you clearly are trying to label one sin as worse than another. Plain as day.
He/she is doing that because some sin IS worse than others. Is stealing a candy bar worse than raping a child? Or do you honestly think Heaven sees them as equal sins?
 

rmorse

Well-Known Member
Not false, you didn't read or comprehend my post. It WAS a sin because those things were unclean. When Our Lord came He sanctified the world making the unclean clean. The rule didn't change, creation changed. You are ignoring the New Testament and the New Covenant and repeating a settled matter just to bait.



He/she is doing that because some sin IS worse than others. Is stealing a candy bar worse than raping a child? Or do you honestly think Heaven sees them as equal sins?



Opinion, not "fact." (I put fact in quotes, because religion in and of itself is hard to view as fact). Regardless, this is like writing a school paper....if you're going to claim something, back it up. The OP (and others) are claiming that homosexuality is a worse sin than most other sins, when in reality, the bible does NOT state that. At all. A sin is a sin. You can justify your petty sins all you want, but all it does is shows ignorance and hypocrisy.
 

rmorse

Well-Known Member
from post #142



Acknowledging sin as sin, abhoring that sin, repenting from it and accepting the Atoning Blood of Christ to cleanse you from that sin (any sin) is the escape from God's Wrath and Judgment that will come against an unrepentant and unbelieving world.

We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. We cannot "save" ourselves by our own efforts. Our only escape from hell is provided through the Atoning Blood of Christ and by inviting Him to be your Lord and Saviour.

Sexual immorality, not homosexuality. And no, I'm not splitting hairs - my point is, people call out homosexuality with such a fervor yet ignore other sxual immoralities. It pisses me (as an atheist) off, since there is no basis to their madness. They aren't turning to the bible for guidance; rather, they are turning to the bible to try and use it to back up their own twisted view on things. Seems bass ackwards.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Sexual immorality, not homosexuality. And no, I'm not splitting hairs - my point is, people call out homosexuality with such a fervor yet ignore other sxual immoralities. It pisses me (as an atheist) off, since there is no basis to their madness. They aren't turning to the bible for guidance; rather, they are turning to the bible to try and use it to back up their own twisted view on things. Seems bass ackwards.

As a Christian I get annoyed with Christians that pick and choose which sins are worth getting :jameo: over and which aren’t. In God’s eyes they are all the same because they all come from sinners.

If all you ever did in your life wrong was speed and never accept Christ, do you get to heaven?

If you committed mass murder, yet accepted Christ, do you get to heaven?
 
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hotcoffee

New Member
That was a long time ago and God does change people, most would rather remain misserable in their sin than truely repent though.

The oldest daughter has asked him about his relationship with the Savior. His response wasn't very clear.


Remaining "miserable in their sin" is exactly what I was talking about when I brought up the pitch black room. Some people who are in a pitch black room will insist that the bright light be turned off rather than deal with the change.

It doesn't really matter what the sin is in the eyes of God. This is true. Some sins seem to be harder to confess.

In one of her Bible Studies, Beth Moore, compared confessing sins in the following way. She talked about putting all the sins in a big garbage bag and taking them to the Lord. She said some of us take that big garbage bag, empty the contents one by one, claiming each one. Then before we leave the alter, packing them up again so we can take that garbage bag back with us.

The burden of the sin, the darkness of the room, the familiarity with the misery, the embarrassment of the predicament, are hard to leave at the alter. We are our own worse enemy sometimes. We pick up our garbage and continue to carry it around, weighting us down, rather than letting it go.... no matter how small or large the load.

:coffee:
 

rmorse

Well-Known Member
As a Christian I get annoyed with Christians that pick and choose which sins are worth getting :jameo: over and which aren’t. In God’s eyes they are all the same because they all come from sinners.

If all you ever did in your life wrong was speed and never accept Christ, do you get to heaven?

If you committed mass murder, yet accepted Christ, do you get to heaven?


That's kinda how I was thinking. It doesn't seem "right." Just focus on fixing your sins (all of them), and everything else will come out in the wash. No point in ranking your sins or trying to get others to stop their sinning.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Sexual immorality, not homosexuality. And no, I'm not splitting hairs - my point is, people call out homosexuality with such a fervor yet ignore other sxual immoralities. It pisses me (as an atheist) off, since there is no basis to their madness. They aren't turning to the bible for guidance; rather, they are turning to the bible to try and use it to back up their own twisted view on things. Seems bass ackwards.

Yes, I agree with your observation. This was addressed in Post#22,
 

MDSupremacist

New Member
Opinion, not "fact." (I put fact in quotes, because religion in and of itself is hard to view as fact). Regardless, this is like writing a school paper....if you're going to claim something, back it up. The OP (and others) are claiming that homosexuality is a worse sin than most other sins, when in reality, the bible does NOT state that. At all. A sin is a sin. You can justify your petty sins all you want, but all it does is shows ignorance and hypocrisy.

It's not opinion, it's IN SCRIPTURE. Acts 10:15
And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.
It is a fact that it's in Scripture, it is your *opinion* that it doesn't count. Don't pawn that mistake off on me or Scripture.

The Bible does state that some sin is worse than others, that is why some sin is deserves the death penalty in the OT and some a lesser punishment.

That is why the first few of the 10 Commandments are about offending God, because that is worse- they go in order.

That is why Lot offered to let the men commit the sin of raping his daughters over raping men.

Sin can vary in gravety. Scripture says it, you innately know this, and nature proves it. No opinion about it.
 
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