Is it possible for gays to go to heaven?

[rmorse]

It's not opinion, it's IN SCRIPTURE. Acts 10:15
And the voice spoke to him again the second time: That which God hath cleansed, do not thou call common.
It is a fact that it's in Scripture, it is your *opinion* that it doesn't count. Don't pawn that mistake off on me or Scripture.

The Bible does state that some sin is worse than others, that is why some sin is deserves the death penalty in the OT and some a lesser punishment.

That is why the first few of the 10 Commandments are about offending God, because that is worse- they go in order.

That is why Lot offered to let the men commit the sin of raping his daughters over raping men.

Sin can vary in gravety. Scripture says it, you innately know this, and nature proves it. No opinion about it.

So, color me ignorant, but I fail to see how

"And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common."

says "homosexuality is a worse sin than others."

You're right about the 10 commandments (which is a whole 'nother argument - why keep PART of the OT, not all of it?), but again....that does not make homosexuality a worse sin than adultry, or lying to your parents, or working on sunday, etc.


See, again, it comes back to what I was saying. Tell me....have you EVER worked on a sunday before? If so, you sinned as bad as homosexuals. But why don't we see a crap-ton of threads popping up, yelling at the sinners who go to work on Sunday? I'll tell you why - because people have justified that sin to themselves.

 

[hotcoffee]

That's kinda how I was thinking. It doesn't seem "right." Just focus on fixing your sins (all of them), and everything else will come out in the wash. No point in ranking your sins or trying to get others to stop their sinning.

We can't fix our own sins.

We can't change the past.

We can't stop others from sinning.

We need to confess our sins and turn them over to Christ.

We should tell people about the Saving Grace of Christ tho.

What I've been talking about here is how difficult it is to confess some sins. To punctuate that statement.... how hard do you think it would be for a cleargyman to confess that he has never accepted Christ as his personal Savior?

 

[rmorse]

The Bible does state that some sin is worse than others, that is why some sin is deserves the death penalty in the OT and some a lesser punishment.

So we're back to the OT again? Fine. You know what else is deserving of the death penalty?

Lying about your virginity
Adultry
Breaking the sabbath (hope you didn't ever have a job where you worked on sunday)
Cursing at your parents
Hitting your parents
Being a drunk (want to go have a good-old fashion stoning at ABC this weekend?)
Being stubborn
Not being circumcised
Going to church without showering
Eating rare meat
Having sex with a woman who is on her period.



Want me to continue?

 

[MDSupremacist]

Sexual immorality, not homosexuality. And no, I'm not splitting hairs - my point is, people call out homosexuality with such a fervor yet ignore other sxual immoralities. It pisses me (as an atheist) off, since there is no basis to their madness. They aren't turning to the bible for guidance; rather, they are turning to the bible to try and use it to back up their own twisted view on things. Seems bass ackwards.

Not all people. Al sexual immorality is wrong. But again, some is still worse than others. Fornicating is wrong, rape is worse. Adultry is wrong, sodomy is worse.
You don't have to pick and choose. They can all be wrong with sins against nature being more offensive.

 

[rmorse]

We can't fix our own sins.

We can't change the past.

We can't stop others from sinning.

We need to confess our sins and turn them over to Christ.

We should tell people about the Saving Grace of Christ tho.

What I've been talking about here is how difficult it is to confess some sins. To punctuate that statement.... how hard do you think it would be for a cleargyman to confess that he has never accepted Christ as his personal Savior?

That's not what you were talking about. If you want the conversation to turn to that, I'm good with it. But no, you (and others) were talking about how homosexuality is a worse sin than others.

 

[rmorse]

Not all people. Al sexual immorality is wrong. But again, some is still worse than others. Fornicating is wrong, rape is worse. Adultry is wrong, sodomy is worse.
You don't have to pick and choose. They can all be wrong with sins against nature being more offensive.

TO YOU.

Those sins are worse TO YOU. The bible does not call them out to be worse.

 

[MDSupremacist]

So we're back to the OT again? Fine. You know what else is deserving of the death penalty?

Back to the OT again? You act as if someone has to pick between one or the other without there being a seemless transition. YOU are the one making that false dichotomy. Not me.

Lying about your virginity
Adultry
Breaking the sabbath (hope you didn't ever have a job where you worked on sunday)
Cursing at your parents
Hitting your parents
Being a drunk (want to go have a good-old fashion stoning at ABC this weekend?)
Being stubborn
Not being circumcised
Going to church without showering
Eating rare meat
Having sex with a woman who is on her period.

Again, some of these fall under God Sanctifying the world and no longer being unclean(avoiding menstrating women). Circumcision is also covered in the NT.

People didn't go to church in the OT nor did they have showers, so I'm curious as to the verse on that one.

Want me to continue?

Why continue, let's deal with these. Verses please. ONe by one we will deal with them

 

[MDSupremacist]

TO YOU.

Those sins are worse TO YOU. The bible does not call them out to be worse.

To anyone. And the Bible does say they are worse. If you honestly think raping a child is the same as stealing a candy bar then you are a sociopath. Seriously, you need help.

 

[rmorse]

Back to the OT again? You act as if someone has to pick between one or the other without there being a seemless transition. YOU are the one making that false dichotomy. Not me.
Again, some of these fall under God Sanctifying the world and no longer being unclean(avoiding menstrating women). Circumcision is also covered in the NT.

People didn't go to church in the OT nor did they have showers, so I'm curious as to the verse on that one.


Why continue, let's deal with these. Verses please. ONe by one we will deal with them

Sorry, maybe you don't do this, but generally when I have these conversations with people, you get the whole "OT is outdated, that's why we have the NT" argument.

 

[rmorse]

To anyone. And the Bible does say they are worse. If you honestly think raping a child is the same as stealing a candy bar then you are a sociopath. Seriously, you need help.

Lol. Right. Attack me instead of what I'm saying.

I never said that raping a child is the same as stealing a candy bar. Ever. I don't need the bible to back it up, and I can say that that is my personal opinion. Granted, it is an opinion that is shared with the vast majority of the population. That being said, I REALLY don't appreciated you suggesting that my moral compass is so out of whack that I would rape a child.


Now, let's examine this moral compass idea.....I have developed my own moral compass, as have you. You (I'm assuming) think you have developed this moral compass through the use of the bible. I am fascinated by people who are so up-in-arms against homosexuality, and attempt to use the bible to defend their beliefs. That is what this whole discussion was about....The bible does not say that they are worse. So why use the bible to defend your moral compass?

I have posted many examples of sins that are punishable by death. Please post the verses where that you claim rank which sins are worse than others. Because, as far as I see it, all sins are pretty darn bad and "we" should be repenting and striving towards living sin-free. Which means no raping of children or stealing candy bars. It doesn't say "Oh, if you steal a candy bar, that's ok. But if you rape a child, that's bad." It does, however, say "Thou shalt not steal."

 

[rmorse]

People didn't go to church in the OT nor did they have showers, so I'm curious as to the verse on that one.


Why continue, let's deal with these. Verses please. ONe by one we will deal with them

Actions punishable by death in the Old Testament - RationalWiki

 

[rmorse]

Not all people. Al sexual immorality is wrong. But again, some is still worse than others. Fornicating is wrong, rape is worse. Adultry is wrong, sodomy is worse.
You don't have to pick and choose. They can all be wrong with sins against nature being more offensive.

Here. This is where we parted ways....

You post that rape is worse than fornicating. Please post where in the bible it states that. Otherwise, it is your personal opinion (and one shared by the vast majority of the population. There is nothing wrong with that; just don't confuse yourself into thinking you're following the word of god.)

You post that sodomy is worse than adultry; why? Back it up.

 

[hotcoffee]

That's not what you were talking about. If you want the conversation to turn to that, I'm good with it. But no, you (and others) were talking about how homosexuality is a worse sin than others.

I'm trying to point out the possibility that some sins are harder to confess....

I'm trying to point out that some people consider their own sins so horrible that they can't possibly find salvation...While others might be addicted to that dark rush they feel when sinning.

That's where I was going in the beginning.... that's where I remain in my posts....

The Bible does seem to point out some sins as detestable.... while not so much others.... It's all sin... I think we all agree on sin is sin is sin....

Some sins are harder FOR US to allow ourselves to be forgiven. That's where I'VE been headed all through this thread.... The man on the Eastern Shore claimed to be saved.... It's not always that easy sometimes.... THAT'S where I was going with my comments. Sometimes WE hinder our own salvation.

 

[MDSupremacist]

Here. This is where we parted ways....

You post that rape is worse than fornicating. Please post where in the bible it states that. Otherwise, it is your personal opinion (and one shared by the vast majority of the population. There is nothing wrong with that; just don't confuse yourself into thinking you're following the word of god.)

You post that sodomy is worse than adultry; why? Back it up.

I didn't state the Bible said that. That was a specific example I gave. What I said is, the Bible clearly states that some sin is worse than others and that sins against nature are some of the worst. The Bible also doesn't state that something must be in the Bible to be the Word of God. It is Sacred Tradition.

Please read and comprehend. Scripture says some sin is worse than others, it doesn't give a chart rating each sin, it shows that sins against nature are worse than many other sins, I gave one from column A and compared it to column B. Understand?

 

[rmorse]

I didn't state the Bible said that. That was a specific example I gave. What I said is, the Bible clearly states that some sin is worse than others and that sins against nature are some of the worst. The Bible also doesn't state that something must be in the Bible to be the Word of God. It is Sacred Tradition.

Please read and comprehend. Scripture says some sin is worse than others, it doesn't give a chart rating each sin, it shows that sins against nature are worse than many other sins, I gave one from column A and compared it to column B. Understand?

I do understand that. Please understand that the scripture is full of contradictions, and clearly states capital punishment for sins that are committed on a daily basis in this country. Hence why some people (like me) are annoyed when others tote that they know what god REALLY meant (i.e., this rule applies but this rule doesn't.) All that nonsense is, is just a way for people to justify how they live their lives, instead of people trying to follow the word of god.


In other words - if you don't like it, ignore it or twist it! That is one of the few things that the church (and followers of god) have done consistently since the beginning.

 

[rmorse]

I'm trying to point out the possibility that some sins are harder to confess....

I'm trying to point out that some people consider their own sins so horrible that they can't possibly find salvation...While others might be addicted to that dark rush they feel when sinning.

That's where I was going in the beginning.... that's where I remain in my posts....

The Bible does seem to point out some sins as detestable.... while not so much others.... It's all sin... I think we all agree on sin is sin is sin....

Some sins are harder FOR US to allow ourselves to be forgiven. That's where I'VE been headed all through this thread.... The man on the Eastern Shore claimed to be saved.... It's not always that easy sometimes.... THAT'S where I was going with my comments. Sometimes WE hinder our own salvation.

Oh please. Your very first post was asking whether or not gays can get into heaven, not "do you think some sins are harder to confess than others."

 

[MMM_donuts]

Whatever happened to the seven deadly sins? That's a bible thing, right? Not just a movie? How come that hasn't been brought up here? Or has it and I just don't understand the context?

 

[PsyOps]

To anyone. And the Bible does say they are worse. If you honestly think raping a child is the same as stealing a candy bar then you are a sociopath. Seriously, you need help.

From our standpoint they are starkly different. The point is, from the standpoint of forgiveness no sin is worse than any other; all are forgiven (except one of course - blasphemy). We have our justice system here on earth; God has His.

 

[rmorse]

From our standpoint they are starkly different. The point is, from the standpoint of forgiveness no sin is worse than any other; all are forgiven (except one of course - blasphemy). We have our justice system here on earth; God has His.

That's new to me....

 

[PsyOps]

That's kinda how I was thinking. It doesn't seem "right." Just focus on fixing your sins (all of them), and everything else will come out in the wash. No point in ranking your sins or trying to get others to stop their sinning.

Christians are charged with doing what they can to correct other Christians. However, you can't fix someone else's house if your own is not in order. And Christians need to do things in with God in mind first, not the law. Certainly we do things to not get in trouble with the law, but Christians need to do things right in the eyes of God; because it's the right thing to do. Man set certain standards for doing the right thing (don't break the law). God set the standards for the moral reasons for doing the right thing: because it's the right thing to do. When Christians can look at things from that angle, they will realize all sins are equally wrong.