Is Jesus a black man?

[This_person]

if its not important then why did god direct people to write it down?
seems it was important to him.

I didn't say what was written wasn't important, I said the details about what's NOT written are not important. That's why they're not written.

You missed my questions back, though. Why do you think we can't all be brothers and sisters in Christ even if we are potentially not all the same blood line?

i guess its equally not pertinent how someone interprets the gospels. (i.e. christ is or isn't god)

Well, that wouldn't interpretting what's written, that would be changing the actual words written to something else. So, yes, that would be wrong.

 

[This_person]

I think that T_P's reading of these passages makes it a contradiction. how can the same person be created on two different days?

The story doesn't say the same person is created on two different days. It says mankind was created on Day 6 when giving the broad strokes of creation, then goes into detail and talks about a single man being created on Day 2, with his wife being created on Day 6 and (potentially, theoretically, unimportantly to the story) the rest of mankind. Or, perhaps, mankind through Adam and Eve's expulsion from the Garden. Where is the contradiction? Lack of detail? Sure, but contradiction - not even close.

he says that his interpretation is that others were created. But he believes that in fact the bible describes two separate events. and that is where his interpretation gets its basis.

And, while people have disagreed, they have not supported anything with scripture. Gen 2:4+ describes Adam being created before plants and such. Show me how I'm misreading that, and I'll review that argument objectively and perhaps change my theory.

No theory one way or the other, though, is really important. Does is matter whether Monika's dress was blue or green to get that a sitting president boinked an intern and then he lied, he had her and others lie, and then he and his wife blamed the whole thing on a conspiracy against him? No, blue or green doesn't matter, and neither does this.

 

[tommyjones]

I didn't say what was written wasn't important, I said the details about what's NOT written are not important. That's why they're not written.

no you said

see how it's not pertinent) of how one "interprets" the first couple of chapters of Genesis.

all we have is interpretations, if they dont matter, neither does the story.

You missed my questions back, though. Why do you think we can't all be brothers and sisters in Christ even if we are potentially not all the same blood line?Well, that wouldn't interpretting what's written, that would be changing the actual words written to something else. So, yes, that would be wrong.

if you want to talk symbolically, then all the people that believe in christ can be, but what about all the others? according to the story, they are all our brothers and sisters as well. even in your noah analogy...... the jews, and others are our brothers and sisters, but not in christ, as they do not believe.

 

[tommyjones]

The story doesn't say the same person is created on two different days. It says mankind was created on Day 6 when giving the broad strokes of creation, then goes into detail and talks about a single man being created on Day 2, with his wife being created on Day 6 and (potentially, theoretically, unimportantly to the story) the rest of mankind. Or, perhaps, mankind through Adam and Eve's expulsion from the Garden. Where is the contradiction? Lack of detail? Sure, but contradiction - not even close.And, while people have disagreed, they have not supported anything with scripture. Gen 2:4+ describes Adam being created before plants and such. Show me how I'm misreading that, and I'll review that argument objectively and perhaps change my theory.

No theory one way or the other, though, is really important. Does is matter whether Monika's dress was blue or green to get that a sitting president boinked an intern and then he lied, he had her and others lie, and then he and his wife blamed the whole thing on a conspiracy against him? No, blue or green doesn't matter, and neither does this.

to the first part, apparently those who disagree with you would find your reading of what is written a contradiction.


the second is just stupid. why bother to write down the story of creation if you are going to leave out a major portion of who got created. your interpretaion aside there isn't anything that supports these other people being created. if you could show one name, or one act by one of these other people it might be different.

 

[HadEnough]

Jesus was not black thats silly

 

[tommyjones]

Jesus was not black thats silly

everybody knows jesus was transparent!!!

 

[This_person]

no you said

Okay, let's hit this so you get it

Tommy: and it obviously changes the pertinent information. either we are all from common ancestors (i.e. brothers and sisters as described by christianity) or we aren't. that seems pertinent to me.

Me: if it helps, we're all from Noah and his family, and Noah is a direct descendant of Adam and Eve (you know, the "she who is to become the mother of all living"), so we are all from the same common ancestors, regardless (see how it's not pertinent) of how one "interprets" the first couple of chapters of Genesis.

Now, when one uses parentheses, they are additions to a sentence. Remove the parentheses and you get: so we are all from the same common ancestors, regardless of how one "interprets" the first couple of chapters of Genesis.

Then, we can add the parenthetic line of (see how it's not pertinent), and see that what I was saying was the detail that's not there is not pertinent information - answering your statement that it is pertinent. You were saying it's pertinent because we're either all from Adam and Eve or we're not. I was showing that, whether you believe there were more than two humans created or not, that argument is not pertinent, because we're all descended from Noah, who was a direct descendant of Adam and Eve, thus we're all descended from Adam and Eve.

I just didn't think I'd have to follow the obvious logic all the way through, that's all.

all we have is interpretations, if they dont matter, neither does the story.

I guess that's true of any communication between two people. You can interpret anger, or happiness, or just about anything when reading words and not being there. Some things transcend the interpretation - the big picture meaning of the stories, for example.

if you want to talk symbolically, then all the people that believe in christ can be, but what about all the others? according to the story, they are all our brothers and sisters as well. even in your noah analogy...... the jews, and others are our brothers and sisters, but not in christ, as they do not believe.

And, as shown above, they are.

 

[This_person]

to the first part, apparently those who disagree with you would find your reading of what is written a contradiction.

I understand that. I asked for someone to show me something that makes it a contradiction. No need to reiterate you think it's a contradiction, tell me how it is.

the second is just stupid. why bother to write down the story of creation if you are going to leave out a major portion of who got created. your interpretaion aside there isn't anything that supports these other people being created. if you could show one name, or one act by one of these other people it might be different.

One act? Marrying Cain. Having Cain's baby. Making Cain worried that they'd kill him.

Wait, that's three. Pick just one that matters to you.

 

[ItalianScallion]

However you can't love everyone and kill them at the same time.
If the folklore is true. Why did he kill them all if he got the creation thing right the first time?

The word you missed is justice. If God doesn't use justice on bad people, then He's a liberal and we know better.

There is no excuse why a church would need prime real estate.
There is no excuse why a church should own priceless art.
And there sure is hell is no excuse why anyone should become wealthy preaching the word of God.
The goal of a church is to preserve the word of Christ, not see how wealthy it can become.
Preaching the word of Christ should never be a mans pay check.
Rich man, Camel, Eye of a Needle, Does this ring a bell.
Now show me a church that has no goal to become bigger to furnish the Pastor with a pay check and I'm there.

Obviously you haven't read the ENTIRE bible.
Church's DO need property.
Priceless art - I agree, not necessary.
Jesus says a man (preacher) is worth his pay (Matthew 10 v 10).
The church was ordered to BE the welfare system of the people in Acts 2 v 44 and Acts 4 v 32.
In God's eyes a rich man is bad if he uses his wealth for selfish reasons and doesn't use it to help those in need.
First Baptist church in Atlanta, Dr. Charles Stanley. Try it out.

I pick and choose what I want to believe in the Bible and I have no bones to pick with the New Testament. The Old Testament was a good tool for its day and it's OK for children in Bible studies.
However my opinion of Genesis and most of the OT is that it's nothing more than a genealogy of the Jew and their campfire tales of how they were created separately from the rest of man kind.
God chose them as his people.Please!
If were all from Adam and Eve aren't we all his people.
Here we go..Non perfect again.. How can a father choose some of his children over others?
There are too many of the same story with the names changed, dating before and around this time period not to be folklores.

You need to grow some faith. You can't pick & choose what you want to believe. It's all true but not all of the events of the Bible are approved by God. Some things in there are simply historical events/practices for us to read about. It doesn't mean that God approves of all of them.
Were NOT all God's people. Read John 1 v 12, Romans 8 v 14 & Galatians 3 v 26.
Does anyone else see how this happens everytime a "religious" topic is posted? The question gets answered and yet the posts always end up arguing over Bible credibility.

 

[ItalianScallion]

why bother to write down the story of creation if you are going to leave out a major portion of who got created.

Why? If all of Jesus sayings and miracles were included, the Bible would be too large for anyone to read. 33 years Jesus was on the earth and only about 4 small books of the Bible include SOME of what He said. What does that tell you? I think God gave us much more than we need for salvation and a good knowledge of Himself. Why should I or anyone care if ALL of Adam & Eve's children's names were included in Genesis?
And, as for inconsistencies TJ, just because YOU or I can't understand some of what's in the Bible, doesn't mean there are any contradictions or inconsistencies in it. You do not know more than it's author so get over it or accept it.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Yeah like Jehova Witnesses arent Christian

They preach a different Gospel and Paul said this in Galatians 1 v 6-8:
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"
Or use 2 Corinthians 11 v 4 where Paul is warning and chastizing the Corinthian church for following false teachers: "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough".
Substitute the words; Jehovah's Witness or Mormon or Muslim in for the words "some people" or "someone" and you MIGHT see why we Christians say that they are NOT Christians. Otherwise, we'd be happy to welcome them into Christianity.

 

[gumbo]

Well, that's not what I said at all. But isn't that an odd paradox, if it's a bunch of fables then the inconsistencies are acceptable, but we claim there is truth to it then the inconsistencies are unacceptable.

But you demand the Bible (the Word of God) be written according to rules you set. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't minimize the truth of it nor does it minimize who God is.

This is what I've been trying to say. It just comes out all sounding.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I will not go into this again with you Nucklesack other than to try this example: if you have two blue cars with white interiors, 4 tires and the same size engines but one is a Pontiac Grand Am and one is a Pontiac Grand Prix, DO YOU HAVE THE SAME CAR?? To have the REAL Jesus one has to have ALL the attributes of Jesus. THEIRS DOES NOT!
Give it up son, you'll NEVER see this unless you accept the real Jesus and ALL that He stands for. GEEEZZZZZZ!

 

[Marie]

I agree that is what i was taught and it is my understanding of the story....

I think that T_P's reading of these passages makes it a contradiction. how can the same person be created on two different days?

he says that his interpretation is that others were created. But he believes that in fact the bible describes two separate events. and that is where his interpretation gets its basis.

<DIR>Gen 3:20 The man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
</DIR>

 

[Marie]

Their website is full of praise for Jesus Christ (you know him right?), they use the King James bible to preach from (that is a Christian Bible right?), and they identify themselves as Christian, all of that isnt enough? :shrug:?

I can preach from a Bible but leave major pieces out or twist scripture by taking it out of context, much like the prosberity preachers do with old testament verses.
Also it is highly deciptive but the Mormon King James Bible the new testament has been changed and they dont mention it its not the same king James Version!

How are they different than Baptists, Protestants, Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, and all the other "Christian" beliefs?

• What does a Baptist believe/preach differently than other "Christians"? Are they Christian? Yes
• What does a Protestant believe/preach differently than other "Christians"? Are they Christian? Yes
• What does a Catholics believe/preach differently than other "Christians"? Are they Christian?Yes
• What does a Methodist believe/preach differently than other "Christians"? Are they Christian?Yes
• What does a Anglican believe/preach differently than other "Christians"? Are they Christian?Yes:

• and to answer what makes demonations differnt in what they preach its Non Essential doctrines like baptism, communion,traditions and littergy. Things that there is a done of debate on but nothing thats going to keep you from being saved!

If they embrace
Essential doctrines are particular doctrines that an orthodox Christian is expected to hold. Those who have recently come to trust in Christ are not expected to fully understand and articulate doctrines like the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, however, if they come to reject these "essential doctrines" they no longer fall within orthodox Christianity. Therefore it is important to note what doctrines are rejected by a person or group, as well as what doctrines are affirmed.
A common list of essential doctrines would be:

• The deity and humanity of Christ
• The doctrine of the Trinity (including the deity of the Holy Spirit)
• Virgin birth of Jesus
• The bodily resurrection of Christ
• Salvation by grace through faith
• The second coming of Christ
• The existence of Heaven and Hell
• the Resurrection of the dead
• Life everlasting

The most common lists of essential doctrines define orthodoxy such that it would include most Protestant denominations as well as Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Critical doctrines coming out of the Protestant Reformation, such as justification by faith alone (Sola Fide) and the sole authority of Scripture (Sola Scriptura) are often argued as "essential" by Protestants, but not so by the general academic community.
are particular doctrines that an orthodox Christian is expected to hold. Those who have recently come to trust in Christ are not expected to fully understand and articulate doctrines like the Trinity and the Deity of Christ, however, if they come to reject these "essential doctrines" they no longer fall within orthodox Christianity. Therefore it is important to note what doctrines are rejected by a person or group, as well as what doctrines are affirmed.

How is that different for a Morman or Jehovah Witness??

They dont believe in the same Essential doctrines, They dont believe in the same Jesus. As pointed out yesterday JW's believe Christ was a created creature Christianity does not. There are serious differences that strip God(Jesus) of his diety and you need to look closley to see them. For Example the Bible says its a closed book and you dont need any other yet the mormons have the book of mormon.
Yesterday I pointed out the JW's believe the earth will last forever tonight I found probably 20 verses Guessing that same just the opsite that it will be desteroyed and pass away and that there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

Seems all denominations could make the same claims about the other denominations.

But what would be the point. The whole perl of the Bible is the Gospel.
Its not about who's right or wrong, its about people understanding correctly that Jesus Christ is God, not a prophet, not an angel and the payment of sin on the cross. Only Christianity Provides a payment for your sins and provides assurance of salvation!

Maybe all of you have it wrong, and the belief is actually about Understanding Jesus was a man, nothing more, who preached God's word?

If that assumption was correct we lost nothing. If that assumption is wrong its a conciquence to be suffered for all eternity. is any of our sin that wonderfull that its worth hanging on to when it leads to death and only short term happiness.
For me No, Satan can keep his lies, and deception. I want nothing to do with him, but he already has us if we dont repented and but your trust and faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and that requires submitting to his will.

 

[tommyjones]

Why? If all of Jesus sayings and miracles were included, the Bible would be too large for anyone to read. 33 years Jesus was on the earth and only about 4 small books of the Bible include SOME of what He said. What does that tell you? I think God gave us much more than we need for salvation and a good knowledge of Himself. Why should I or anyone care if ALL of Adam & Eve's children's names were included in Genesis?
And, as for inconsistencies TJ, just because YOU or I can't understand some of what's in the Bible, doesn't mean there are any contradictions or inconsistencies in it. You do not know more than it's author so get over it or accept it.

This_person is asserting that god created numerous others in the land of nod at the same time as eves creation. those are the folks i am talking about not being named, and that it would have been important details considering the sotry is about creation and it goes into detail.

so the contradition is with TP's reading of the scripture......

 

[tommyjones]

I understand that. I asked for someone to show me something that makes it a contradiction. No need to reiterate you think it's a contradiction, tell me how it is.
One act? Marrying Cain. Having Cain's baby. Making Cain worried that they'd kill him.

Wait, that's three. Pick just one that matters to you.

nowhere does the bible say that cains wife was one of these people you claim were created at the same time as eve, but outside the garden. that is only what you infer

now back to ignore....

 

[PsyOps]

logic says that if it is indeed truth, then it can stand to a logical examination.....
if it is a fable, then it doesn't matter, its just a story.

And it can also be said that a truth stands the test of time. Billions (if not trillions) have become followers of this fable over 2 millennia. Just as science relies heavily on the evidence of math (an abstract definition), our beliefs rely on our faith and an historical path.

 

[This_person]

This_person is asserting that god created numerous others in the land of nod at the same time as eves creation. those are the folks i am talking about not being named, and that it would have been important details considering the sotry is about creation and it goes into detail.

so the contradition is with TP's reading of the scripture......

Would it help if they said his wife's name was Sheila? Would that make it clearer for you? Cain's kids from her were named. Clearly, Cain was afraid of someone other than Adam and Eve, for if it was just the three of them left after he killed his brother, there would be no need to mark Cain - God was on pretty good speaking terms with Adam and Eve.

So, I still don't see a contradiction, other than between what it says and what you're saying.

 

[PsyOps]

well the inconsistancy is that either god created adam and eve as the mother and father of all people, or he created another bunch of people he doesnt talk about in the book that are also our common ancestors.

which is it?

I don't subscribe to the "Adam and Eve" concept that they were the first originally created being and everyone is a result of that. I'm quite sure God doesn't talk about a lot of things, but do these things really put in question the validity of God? Does this really change the intent of the real message of the bible?

if its left up to "can be interpreted as" then it is no longer the word of god, its all about "how i feel when i read the book"

God does leave certain things for us to interpret in the bible. This, once again, does not minimize the overall message of salvation. I think that message is pretty cut and dry. And if my interpretation of the Adam and Eve story is wrong this certain wont determine whether I get saved or not. I think God would simply say I was wrong. The Word of God is still the word of God regardless of whether my interpretation is wrong or not. If ten people witness an accident on the highway, you might get ten different stories at to how it happened. Because 8 out of the 10 got it wrong doesn't mean the accident didn't happen.

But if these "inconsistencies put doubt in your mind then that is your interpretation of things and God certainly gave your the free will to make that decision.