Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormon Religion

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fredcaudle

New Member
Nucklesack said:
But that is how you live your life now. There are concepts in your book that are archaic, barbaric and would cause you to spend time in the poke. (to be fair those same concepts are found in other religions books too).

The reason your not fullfilling the tenants of those concepts is because Society doesnt allow you.
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I'm sorry... I am asking you... I don't care how I live my life, I want to know your answers... don't take it back to archaic religion, just answer the question is all I'm seeking here
 
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fredcaudle

New Member
Nucklesack said:
But you've recieved that answer, you cant accept it because it would take understanding of the thought of no controlling entity or authority
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So we are not under control of anything? This is what I am seeking. Does this mean we don't listen to any authority... and if we do, why? Who gives them authority?
 
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fredcaudle

New Member
Nucklesack said:
We look to Society as an authority because we seek to maintain a link with society.
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Okay, I understand this part. But (and I really want to know) how do we decide they are an authority? Doesn't Society change constantly. American society is changing right now before our eyes... so how do we view authority when it changes?
 
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fredcaudle

New Member
Nucklesack said:
.. i dont know that its something you "decide". We evolve along with society, if society changes in a way or manner you dont agree, then its up to you to evolve with it, or go against society.

In a simplistic manner, you could argue that those that dont maintain societies standards are the law breakers and those in the loony bin.
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Thank you for your answer. I really was trying to keep it non-religious. We often argue the religious points to death and I never get to hear a non-religious answer.

Appreciate your time.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Nucklesack said:
But i dont need to prove it to you, the Bible has already admitted to it (you are Christian?)

Since the Bible is the "Truth" and being thats its God's word, thereby infallable. You already know that we have a conscience, which is not God talking to you (see above) because your Book tells ya.

:lmao:
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If I can't use the bible to prove anything, neither can you.
 
Starman3000m

Starman3000m

New Member
This_person said:
And, here's what they believe:

...At the end of the Book of Mormon is a challenge for all those that read the Book of Mormon. It states, "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." 4

If the Book of Mormon is a true book then the other aspects of the Mormon religion that many find hard to believe must be true as well. Namely that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. That he truly did see God the Father and His son Jesus Christ in a vision. That he was instrumental in restoring Christ's true church upon the earth today.

One must also believe that a prophet leads the Mormon Church today. But the Mormon religion does not want blind followers. The Church teaches men and women to pray and know for themselves whether: the Book of Mormon is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet, the Church is led by a prophet today, and the principles taught by the Church are true. Thus members of the Mormon religion must gain a testimony for themselves of the truthfulness of the restored gospel of Christ.
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As stated in an earlier response, I was studying to become a "Mormon" when I was searching for the Truth about God during a time of crisis in my life.
Herein is my experience of how I accepted the "challenge" to pray to God and see whether the Mormon faith was in-fact true as claimed:

First: Some of you may have already read my posted testimony at
Testimony of Mike Ramirez
of how my wife and I became born again believers through accepting Y'shua ha Mashiach (New Testament Jesus)

It was prior to our conversion when I was searching for God that I almost fell for the deceptive claim that the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" was the "true church".

I had a little bit of Biblical knowledge at that time but the missionaries appeared to know everything about the "Bible" and about living right for God. Boy, that's what I wanted and was eager to learn.

Long story short... The first meetings were cordial and more like a "warm-up" to prepare my wife and me for their teaching. After a few week night meetings with the missionaries they shared about how "God, the Father and Jesus, The Son," both appeared to Joseph Smith. The missionaries then told me that God said to Joseph Smith, "This is my beloved Son, here ye Him." Then they talked about how the angel Moroni revealed "truth" and guided Joseph Smith to "golden tablets" that only he could read through special glasses. They also talked about ancient tribes on the American continent and "spirit babies" that were waiting to be born in order to come into this world.

My wife, was an Atheist and quit attending the meetings after two sessions. She wanted nothing to do with any religion. I was still curious and wanting to learn. Here is the real kicker: The Mormon missionaries were so sure that I was ready to become a Mormon that they challenged me to "pray about it" and to ask God to show me how Mormonism was the "true religion." I now realize this is a psychological tactic used by liars who can be so bold in a statement that no one would challenge it and accept that what they are claiming must be true.

I agreed that I would pray about the LDS Church being the "true church" and then the Mormon missionaries left for the evening. As I mentioned, I was desperately searching for God and wanted to know which church to join.
Through the week I prayed in earnest about what the Mormon missionaries had told me - about Joseph Smith being a prophet of God, LDS being the "true church", etc.

Then, within my thoughts, I was reminded of a scripture that I had once read:
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

My discernment was that while Joseph Smith could have seen the resurrected Lord Jesus, Smith could not have possibly seen the "personage" of God, the Father appearing as a second figure of a man. The New Testament makes it clear that we would be able to see Jesus in his resurrected body but does not state that man would personally see God, except through Jesus alone.

When the Mormon missionaries came back the following Monday night, the lead elder looked at me with a smile and said, "Well, did you pray about our church?" I replied, yes, I prayed about it. The missionary asked, "Good, what did God tell you?" I matter-of factly said, "God showed me that your church is NOT the true church."

Boy did that take them back in a startled surprise! The junior missionary was speechless and literally had a look of horror on his face. The elder was also speechless for a moment, gathered his composure and said, "Well, why don't you think we are the true church?" I then explained about my earnest prayer to God and how God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son could not both appear as two individual "personages" in human form because God was a Spirit and Jesus only could appear in His resurrected body.

They tried to make explanations but I stopped them at that point and said, no thanks, I think we need to stop our meetings at this time and confidently but courteously said that I no longer wished to meet with them.

Again, remember that at this time I had not yet been born-again but I was sincerely searching for Truth and God was Faithful. Praise Almighty God for His Love and Patience with a wretch like me. Amen.
 
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camily

camily

Peace
fredcaudle said:
That's the rules.. I'm not trying to zap anyone here. We argue religion all the time and never hear the answers from a non-religious approach... the answers go long and hard on religion.
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Word. Or should that be "The Word"? :lol::killingme:lmao:


Ok, that was lame..............
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
Starman3000m said:
It was prior to our conversion when I was searching for God that I almost fell for the deceptive claim that the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" was the "true church".
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ah, so its you who gets to decide what the 'true church' is?


if thats that case, then isn't every church the 'true chruch' for its parisoners?

i mean if the answer lies within the man, then the mans choice is no less correct than yours. you used your interpretation of the bible, and so did everyone else.
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
camily said:
Um, yeah. Doesn't everyone get to decide what is true? Didn't you decide nothing is? Why can you decide but no one else can?
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i defy you to find where i have told anyone that their chice of church is the wrong one.
But Star and others here who have made the choice for themselves ARE intent on saying that other religions and even other sects of chritianity are WRONG.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
tommyjones said:
i defy you to find where i have told anyone that their chice of church is the wrong one.
But Star and others here who have made the choice for themselves ARE intent on saying that other religions and even other sects of chritianity are WRONG.
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Wrong for them.

I agree with your concept, I think, here. You have your right to choose what you choose, as I do for me, and Camily, and Star. We all believe the other is wrong, at least in part, but we each need to respect the other's right to believe as they believe until it inflicts itself on our right to believe.

However, calling other peolpe's beliefs fiction, etc., probably doesn't really demonstrate respect for other people's beliefs.
 
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tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
This_person said:
Wrong for them.

I agree with your concept, I think, here. You have your right to choose what you choose, as I do for me, and Camily, and Star. We all believe the other is wrong, at least in part, but we each need to respect the other's right to believe as they believe until it inflicts itself on our right to believe.
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I dont believe the others are wrong, just not for me.

kind of like gayness or interracial marrige. I have no problem, nor do i make a moral judgement about either, but they are not for me.

the whole thing is, if we choose it for a feeling in our heart, how can that be any more right than the feeling someone else has? its just right to me, and your right to you may be different, not less right.
 
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This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
tommyjones said:
I dont believe the others are wrong, just not for me.

kind of like gayness or interracial marrige. I have no problem, nor do i make a moral judgement about either, but they are not for me.

the whole thing is, if we choose it for a feeling in our heart, how can that be any more right than the feeling someone else has? its just right to be, and your right to you may be different, not less right.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment - it's very respectful to other's beliefs.
 
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