Men don't have the right to choice!

[K_Jo]

Are you saying Boy is not an extension of me?

I've never seen this ugly side of her. :sad:

 

[Pete]

...and may I say you ALL look very, very fine today, like the fruit jiuce, only sweeter!


Can I get an AMEN?

I bet that line never got you bang bang bang.

 

[Pete]

He carries your genes, but he was never attached to your body and formed from your life blood, nutrients and tissue.

Hair splitting, I would say that a 9 month physiological condition does not automatically equate to the female having a larger percentage of parental love, nurturing, rights or responsibility.

Men have taken the backseat on parental issues for a long time because of social paradigms and because they allow it, either through ambevelance or their own desire. IE: Many dudes don't want to be saddled with a kid because they are self centered goobers woried because a kid will seriously cut down on their fun time and diapers are nasty.

 

[Pete]

He carries your genes, but he was never attached to your body and formed from your life blood, nutrients and tissue.

So what you are saying is if someone were to hurt Boy my reaction/emotion would be less intense than his mothers because he was in her womb for 9 months about 8 years ago?

 

[kwillia]

Hair splitting, I would say that a 9 month physiological condition does not automatically equate to the female having a larger percentage of parental love, nurturing, rights or responsibility.

I never said it did. I said that the woman is the one that lives the 9 month physiological condition and bares the brunt of all risks and reactions to that physiological change.

I also stated that it's been my observation that quite a few women who did not wish to become pregnant actually carried their fetus to full term.... some of them keeping it, some of them letting the father raise the child. Just because abortion is a choice doesn't make it the popular one.

 

[Vixen]

Many men WOULD like custody but social norms don't allot for it, so they give up and just accept the back seat, giving up on the fight, nevertheless this thread is about abortion and not after the fact parental issues.

 

[kwillia]

So what you are saying is if someone were to hurt Boy my reaction/emotion would be less intense than his mothers because he was in her womb for 9 months about 8 years ago?

I said no such thing. I am talking of the parasitic fetus who relies soley on the well being of it's host body.. a body that is very much affected by the condition of pregnancy. This thread is not about the moment of birth and beyond, Pete. That's a whole other topic.

 

[kwillia]

Many men WOULD like custody but social norms don't allot for it, so they give up and just accept the back seat, giving up on the fight,

Bullhockey. There are plenty of men who did want custody and did fight for it, and they are doing just fine in society.

 

[Pete]

I never said it did. I said that the woman is the one that lives the 9 month physiological condition and bares the brunt of all risks and reactions to that physiological change.

I also stated that it's been my observation that quite a few women who did not wish to become pregnant actually carried their fetus to full term.... some of them keeping it, some of them letting the father raise the child. Just because abortion is a choice doesn't make it the popular one.

I disagree with the whole "I carried the baby for 9 months, I had swollen ankles and water weight gain and discomfort and pain of delivery so I have more rights and a larger more intense bond and more say so than the father." deal.

I do NOT believe that the father of a child should have authority to demand an abortion, however, I do believe that he should have veto power over a woman having one. It is a life, his child too and if he wants to raise the child in leiu of having it vaccumed out he should have that option.

Granted the woman is the one who carries the child but If the shoe were on the other foot and you had no say, it was the fathers call to abort or not, how would you feel not having any say in the matter and having your child terminated?

 

[Vixen]

Bullhockey. There are plenty of men who did want custody and did fight for it, and they are doing just fine in society.

You are right. Let me rephrase my earlier statement

Many men WOULD like custody but think social norms or the courts don't allot for it, so they give up and just accept the back seat, giving up on the fight,

Today, you do see more men fighting and gaining custody.

 

[Pete]

I said no such thing. I am talking of the parasitic fetus who relies soley on the well being of it's host body.. a body that is very much affected by the condition of pregnancy. This thread is not about the moment of birth and beyond, Pete. That's a whole other topic.

You based your argument primarily on the fact the woman hosts the child during pregnancy.

The fetus is an extention of her, not the man... therefore, it is up to her.

and here

He carries your genes, but he was never attached to your body and formed from your life blood, nutrients and tissue.

 

[Oz]

Your rights leave with the sperm.

It's a gift!

 

[kwillia]

I disagree with the whole "I carried the baby for 9 months, I had swollen ankles and water weight gain and discomfort and pain of delivery so I have more rights and a larger more intense bond and more say so than the father." deal.

If that's all you think is involved with being pregnant, than there is no use in discussing this with you any further.

I understand your emotions, but emotions do not change the physical facts of pregnancy.

 

[kwillia]

You based your argument primarily on the fact the woman hosts the child during pregnancy.



and here

I have no idea what you are getting at, both examples you posted are about pregancy, not birth and beyond.

 

[Pete]

Bullhockey. There are plenty of men who did want custody and did fight for it, and they are doing just fine in society.

It is typically very dificult for a man to wrest custody from a female unless she is clearly not a wise choice in the view of the court "acting as a wise and concerned parent". In affect not only does a "tie goes to the mother", near ties and cases where grave danger is not demonstrated go to the mother as well.

It has gotten much better for men who want custody. But in talking to more and more male custodial parents who's beebee momma just didn't want the kid, I wonder if maternal instinct is a dying thing.

 

[Oz]

I disagree with the whole "I carried the baby for 9 months, I had swollen ankles and water weight gain and discomfort and pain of delivery so I have more rights and a larger more intense bond and more say so than the father." deal.

The chicks can have that 9 months... I just want to go to concerts and sporting events!

 

[kwillia]

It is typically very dificult for a man to wrest custody from a female unless she is clearly not a wise choice in the view of the court "acting as a wise and concerned parent". In affect not only does a "tie goes to the mother", near ties and cases where grave danger is not demonstrated go to the mother as well.

It has gotten much better for men who want custody. But in talking to more and more male custodial parents who's beebee momma just didn't want the kid, I wonder if maternal instinct is a dying thing.

Custody issued after birth are a different topic altogether.

 

[vraiblonde]

Granted the woman is the one who carries the child but If the shoe were on the other foot and you had no say, it was the fathers call to abort or not, how would you feel not having any say in the matter and having your child terminated?

Write your Congressman. At this point in time abortion is legal, the woman carries the child and she gives the birth.

It's completely impractical for a man to insist that a woman bear a child if she doesn't want to. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's the way it is. You could get a judge to say that, yes, she must have the child, then give it up to you. But how will you ensure that she doesn't do something to harm it? "Take that, you bastard - how's a little fetal alcohol syndrome grab ya? Have some heroin, baby!"

Blame biology. You can't give birth - women can. It's just the way it is.

 

[Pete]

If that's all you think is involved with being pregnant, than there is no use in discussing this with you any further.

I understand your emotions, but emotions do not change the physical facts of pregnancy.

I get what you are saying, that because the physiological condition exists for the woman she has total authority.

I am thinking more of the broader subject. An abortion is just a "medical procedure", not the object of the discussion, the object from my viewpoint is the terminating of a baby that is the result of a contribution of the mother and father.

A boob job is a "medical procedure" on a boob that has no bearing anyone, just you, whereas an abortion is a "medical procedure" on a child that is genetically, emotionally and biologically 50% someone else too.

I view your boobs as "standard equipment" a fetus is not.

 

[kwillia]

It is typically very dificult for a man to wrest custody from a female unless she is clearly not a wise choice in the view of the court "acting as a wise and concerned parent". In affect not only does a "tie goes to the mother", near ties and cases where grave danger is not demonstrated go to the mother as well.

It has gotten much better for men who want custody. But in talking to more and more male custodial parents who's beebee momma just didn't want the kid, I wonder if maternal instinct is a dying thing.

Woah, you are talking double speak now. Are you saying that just because a woman is willing to let the father have primary custody, she loves her child less? How can you expect to overcome the stereotypes when you want to immediately assume she is doing it because she doesn't care, thus reinforcing stereotypes of your own?