Misquoting Jesus

[libby]

I just read Matthew 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, and John 14 which are the accounts of the Lord's supper or the last supper in the upper room and and also Acts 1 & 2 which is the account of the gathering in the upper room and the day of Pentecost and it is no account of Jesus breathing on the or commanding them to receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus does say in John 14:16-31 that when He goes to the Father that He will ask the the Father will send the Helper, the Holy Spirit.

Okay, so you made me go back and get my Bible. Here it is in John 20:22. "...He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit..."
My Bible uses the word "disciples" here, but I believe it was only the disciples who were the Apostles based on vs. 24 where it is said that Thomas was not with them when Jesus came.
Anyway, as I said, this has profound implications in that it is only the second time that God "breathed" on man.
BTW- I know it was a bit of a tangent, but did you find Psalm 22 as I think it is quite an eye opener in your discussion with JPC earlier in the thread?

 

[PsyOps]

It is called confidence.

You must believe that the majority makes right like if millions of people believe one thing then it must be true.

Or that there is safety in numbers so you can get lost in the croud and never venture out.

All I do is read the scriptures and then I trust my own eyes and I believe my own interpretation.

It is not a blessing to be a sheep that follows the herd.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Okay, so you made me go back and get my Bible. Here it is in John 20:22. "...He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit..."
My Bible uses the word "disciples" here, but I believe it was only the disciples who were the Apostles based on vs. 24 where it is said that Thomas was not with them when Jesus came.
Anyway, as I said, this has profound implications in that it is only the second time that God "breathed" on man.
BTW- I know it was a bit of a tangent, but did you find Psalm 22 as I think it is quite an eye opener in your discussion with JPC earlier in the thread?

Got it. As many times as I have read John, that verse did not stand out to me. Thank you.

Psalm 22 flies in the face of JPC's "We are on our own." doctrine as does many places in the Bible. Psalm 22 is all about being in despair and feeling like having been deserted by God and then calling on God to help and He comes to sustain and lift up. The book of Job is also a prime example of being down trodden and God restoring.

 

[libby]

Got it. As many times as I have read John, that verse did not stand out to me. Thank you.

Psalm 22 flies in the face of JPC's "We are on our own." doctrine as does many places in the Bible. Psalm 22 is all about being in despair and feeling like having been deserted by God and then calling on God to help and He comes to sustain and lift up. The book of Job is also a prime example of being down trodden and God restoring.

Those words of Jesus from the Cross have confounded many people in my experience, so I don't blame JPC and others for wondering what this could mean.
It was a huge revelation to me when I learned He was quoting the psalm and assuring His followers of the ultimate triumph.
I don't know anything about JPC's theology, but I do think everyone here seems to jump all over him no matter what he says.
I've read bits and pieces on the forums accusing him of this and that, and how much truth there is to it, I don't know. However, I find it very thought provoking that with all the accusations about whatever it is he did/has done, he has not once (again, that I've seen) tried to defend himself.
Do you all know that he has not repented to God for whatever sins you say he has committed?

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

Psalm 22 flies in the face of JPC's "We are on our own." doctrine as does many places in the Bible. Psalm 22 is all about being in despair and feeling like having been deserted by God and then calling on God to help and He comes to sustain and lift up. The book of Job is also a prime example of being down trodden and God restoring.

I never said we are on our own.

I accept that God is alive and active in this world and I am glad of it.

What I said is that we must take action, we must do our part, we might lean on God but not climb onto His back.

God will help and point and even push people but it is finally up to us each to do our part.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

Do you all know that he has not repented to God for whatever sins you say he has committed?

Of course I have repented of it all.

Otherwise I could never preach as I do if I were a true hypocrite.

 

[libby]

Of course I have repented of it all.

Otherwise I could never preach as I do if I were a true hypocrite.

I'm not asking you to answer to me. Personally, I don't think this is any of my business. I'm just concerned about people assuming....

 

[PsyOps]

Of course I have repented of it all.

Otherwise I could never preach as I do if I were a true hypocrite.

But if we are all saved anyway why would there be a need to repent?

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

But if we are all saved anyway why would there be a need to repent?

Because we must live now in this world and in the present time.

After death is all provided for and no need to be concerned with after life at all. No reason to fear death.

But in this life now we have pain and suffering and sorrows because of the sins and debaucheries and those can be stopped and repaired through repentance.

We need salvation now in this world by being saved from addictions, saved from injustices, saved from cruelties and from violence, we need saved from family breakdowns, social degradations, saved from ignorance and more.

This world and the people here-in do not need to keep living in pain and suffering and sorrows and the way to end it all is by repentance because true repentance can repair anything.

Salvation in this world and from this world comes through repentance.

This is true for personal individual people or for a group or a big Country too.

The USA needs to repent and make ammends for our national wrongdoings like the war mongering and torture of prisoners and beligerant threats to other Countries and make peace with the Muslims and stop being an infidel Country and our world problems would decrease and probably end any big problems completely, and such repentance would probably make the USA safe (salvation) for another 200 years.

But without repentance then we are not saved nor safe and we will reap what we sow.

The same is true for individual persons as we all must make ammends (repent) to those we have offended and then the blessings of God will be ours.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I never said we are on our own.

I accept that God is alive and active in this world and I am glad of it.

What I said is that we must take action, we must do our part, we might lean on God but not climb onto His back.

God will help and point and even push people but it is finally up to us each to do our part.

Yes you did. Right here.

...

My understanding of the God of the Bible is that He expects us to do it and He has already done His part till Judgement Day.

He gave us commandments and principles and directions for us people to do it all.

...

These two posts by you are in conflict. So which is it? Did God do His part and expects us to do it until Judgment day, or is God alive and well and active in this world?

You seem to be very confused about what you believe, and it is certain that much of what you profess is in conflict with the Bible and therefor wrong.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Because we must live now in this world and in the present time.

After death is all provided for and no need to be concerned with after life at all. No reason to fear death.

But in this life now we have pain and suffering and sorrows because of the sins and debaucheries and those can be stopped and repaired through repentance.

We need salvation now in this world by being saved from addictions, saved from injustices, saved from cruelties and from violence, we need saved from family breakdowns, social degradations, saved from ignorance and more.

This world and the people here-in do not need to keep living in pain and suffering and sorrows and the way to end it all is by repentance because true repentance can repair anything.

Salvation in this world and from this world comes through repentance.

This is true for personal individual people or for a group or a big Country too.

The USA needs to repent and make ammends for our national wrongdoings like the war mongering and torture of prisoners and beligerant threats to other Countries and make peace with the Muslims and stop being an infidel Country and our world problems would decrease and probably end any big problems completely, and such repentance would probably make the USA safe (salvation) for another 200 years.

But without repentance then we are not saved nor safe and we will reap what we sow.

The same is true for individual persons as we all must make ammends (repent) to those we have offended and then the blessings of God will be ours.

You are so totally confused.

The only time you can repent is while you are alive. The only way to salvation is repentance of sin and claiming Jesus as Savior while alive. After a person dies, it is too late to claim forgiveness. A person can claim forgiveness up to the moment of death but not after according to scripture. That is the point of Jesus' parable of the landowner and the workers in the field.

The Bible clearly states that not everyone is saved. Even the scripture you link to when taken in context refutes that idea. You might believe that everyone gets saved, but you are wrong.

 

[PsyOps]

Because we must live now in this world and in the present time.

After death is all provided for and no need to be concerned with after life at all. No reason to fear death.

But in this life now we have pain and suffering and sorrows because of the sins and debaucheries and those can be stopped and repaired through repentance.

We need salvation now in this world by being saved from addictions, saved from injustices, saved from cruelties and from violence, we need saved from family breakdowns, social degradations, saved from ignorance and more.

This world and the people here-in do not need to keep living in pain and suffering and sorrows and the way to end it all is by repentance because true repentance can repair anything.

Salvation in this world and from this world comes through repentance.

This is true for personal individual people or for a group or a big Country too.

The USA needs to repent and make ammends for our national wrongdoings like the war mongering and torture of prisoners and beligerant threats to other Countries and make peace with the Muslims and stop being an infidel Country and our world problems would decrease and probably end any big problems completely, and such repentance would probably make the USA safe (salvation) for another 200 years.

But without repentance then we are not saved nor safe and we will reap what we sow.

The same is true for individual persons as we all must make ammends (repent) to those we have offended and then the blessings of God will be ours.

Yeah, yeah, yeah… we’ve heard all this already. I’m just trying to figure out why we would need to repent if we are automatically saved? I mean what real purpose does repent serve, really? What real incentive do I have to stay the straight and narrow? Why do I need salvation in this world if I am guaranteed a place in heaven regardless of what I do? I mean you’ve just given me a green light to live it up in debauchery and gluttony. And what pain and suffering are you talking about? If we all go to heaven anyway what difference does it make about pain and suffering? Why should I care if anyone else suffers? I’m going to heaven and that’s all that matters to me. I mean you’ve just simplified things dramatically for all of us. If we are going to heaven anyway then what is the wrongdoing you are talking about? How can I possibly be doing anything wrong if I will still obtain the ultimate gift from God; and that’s a place in paradise? I mean, by your own assertion, there are no rules to live by. The word sin is all a lie. There are no consequences for our sins; we get the greatest gift anyway.

And it’s all a lie JPC…

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”… Romans 6:23

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
The USA needs to repent and make ammends for our national wrongdoings like the war mongering and torture of prisoners and beligerant threats to other Countries and make peace with the Muslims and stop being an infidel Country and our world problems would decrease and probably end any big problems completely, and such repentance would probably make the USA safe (salvation) for another 200 years. ...

Forgot to address this. The only way the U.S.A. can stop being an infidel country is for all citizens of the U.S. to become Muslims. Somehow you keep missing that. No true Christian would become a Muslim. No true Jew would become a Muslim. I doubt many atheists would become Muslims although when faced with a convert or die decision, they might.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

Yes you did. Right here.

These two posts by you are in conflict. So which is it? Did God do His part and expects us to do it until Judgment day, or is God alive and well and active in this world?

You seem to be very confused about what you believe, and it is certain that much of what you profess is in conflict with the Bible and therefor wrong.

There is no contradiction and it does fit the Bible well as I already showed.

God has done His part and we wait for Judgement Day, but God is still alive and active in this world because that is part of His part.

It is like a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

The world is the way it is and we each and all reap whatever we sow link HERE.

The only contradiction is from that twisted Orthodox perspective that God has not done His part and we still need to try to be saved and so the Orthodox are mis-working on the wrong direction.

People need saved today from the evils of this world, and not saved from some mystical hell in the after-life.

 

[2ndAmendment]

There is no contradiction and it does fit the Bible well as I already showed.

God has done His part and we wait for Judgement Day, but God is still alive and active in this world because that is part of His part.

It is like a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

The world is the way it is and we each and all reap whatever we sow link HERE.

The only contradiction is from that twisted Orthodox perspective that God has not done His part and we still need to try to be saved and so the Orthodox are mis-working on the wrong direction.

People need saved today from the evils of this world, and not saved from some mystical hell in the after-life.

You are so confused you need a map for your mind. You don't even know what you think.

Your two posts absolutely refute each other and you contradict yourself in this last post. God is either done or active; not both.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

I’m just trying to figure out why we would need to repent if we are automatically saved?
I mean what real purpose does repent serve, really?

It is not required and people do not have to repent but we need to repent in order to get closer to the truth and to reality - closer to God.

Repentance is the key that opens the door.

Many people do not do it and so the world is in deterioration and unnecessary hardships are everywhere.

What real incentive do I have to stay the straight and narrow? Why do I need salvation in this world if I am guaranteed a place in heaven regardless of what I do?

The self righteous do not want it but those of us that do want better then repentance is the way that gives better.

If you or others are content with this wicked society then you will not repent.

The message of Christ is for those of us in need, and for us sinners, link HERE.

I mean you’ve just given me a green light to live it up in debauchery and gluttony.

God gives us all that option to live in wickedness,

but the gov and our neighbors say not, and we each will reap whatever we sow, like going to jail or getting AIDS or beat up in some back alley.

To "live by the sword then perish by the sword" includes any wrong so if one lives doing wrong then expect a painful end.

And what pain and suffering are you talking about? If we all go to heaven anyway what difference does it make about pain and suffering? Why should I care if anyone else suffers? I’m going to heaven and that’s all that matters to me.

I would certainly say that you or anyone would first have to care about the pain and suffering of others or else repentance will remain meaningless to that kind of cold and unloving person.

If your concern is to save yourself in Heaven and to Hell with the others then you are an Orthodox Christian indeed.

I mean you’ve just simplified things dramatically for all of us. If we are going to heaven anyway then what is the wrongdoing you are talking about? How can I possibly be doing anything wrong if I will still obtain the ultimate gift from God; and that’s a place in paradise? I mean, by your own assertion, there are no rules to live by. The word sin is all a lie. There are no consequences for our sins; we get the greatest gift anyway.

It is true that everyone gets saved but sin and debaulchery are still a horrible condition and problem for us all now in the present.

We reap what we sow and that is why our society is morally deprived now, link HERE.

And it’s all a lie JPC…

My beliefs are my own and I stand by all that I say.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

Forgot to address this. The only way the U.S.A. can stop being an infidel country is for all citizens of the U.S. to become Muslims. Somehow you keep missing that. No true Christian would become a Muslim. No true Jew would become a Muslim. I doubt many atheists would become Muslims although when faced with a convert or die decision, they might.

That is not correct.

The Muslims want us to be faithful Christians and Jews and not to give away our own religions.

The term infidel means committing infidelity to one's own faith.

The Muslims would love others to convert to Islam I am sure, but that is not the demand against the American infidelity.

They are telling Americans to act like Christians and Jews to act like Jews instead of being infidels.

The term "Islam" only means submission to God, not submission to Muslims.

The term "infidel" is also found in the King James Bible link HERE and link HERE.

So "infidel" has Christian infidelity applications too just as the Muslims use it.

 

[PsyOps]

My beliefs are my own and I stand by all that I say.

Well, you certainly got that part right.

 

[2ndAmendment]

That is not correct.

The Muslims want us to be faithful Christians and Jews and not to give away our own religions.

The term infidel means committing infidelity to one's own faith.

The Muslims would love others to convert to Islam I am sure, but that is not the demand against the American infidelity.

They are telling Americans to act like Christians and Jews to act like Jews instead of being infidels.

The term "Islam" only means submission to God, not submission to Muslims.

The term "infidel" is also found in the King James Bible link HERE and link HERE.

So "infidel" has Christian infidelity applications too just as the Muslims use it.

You are beyond belief in your lack of knowledge and arrogance.

The Muslims want to kill you. Yes you. They want to kill anyone who is not a Muslim.

 

[PsyOps]

It could be worse, he could have claimed he was an atheist

ok that would be worse for me

Well, actually it wouldn't be worse for me. I can understand a non-believers hold such misunderstood views of the Bible and God. But for someone to claim they are a believer and espouse themselves to his kind of radical thinking is, at most, bothersome.