Misquoting Jesus

[2ndAmendment]

The point remains that persons like 2A and Christian orthodoxy are telling us all what God's way is and they are wrong.

They might be honestly wrong but wrong they are.

He is saying to have a personal relationship with God on God's terms but 2A and Orthodoxy are claiming that they only know God's terms and not the rest of us.

Like 2A and Orthodoxy has the narrow way blocked and we all have to go through them and we do not.

A "personal relationship" really means to be our own personal way. When others tell us how to do it then it is their way and when others tell us how to do it then it is their relationship, so a "personal relationship" means "I" or "me" personally and not me and God with 2A as that would be a three-some and three is one too many.

The first point of this thread is that people are misquoting and misrepresenting Jesus and God and that is still very true here.

Again, you get it wrong. I have never said I have the only way. I have repeatedly said the correct way is in the Bible for all to read.

A personal relationship with God must be done on God's terms which He specified in the Bible. You are not free to make up the terms of the relationship.

You are one that says the Bible is false. You are the one following myths. I trust that someday, you will see the Truth.

 

[MMDad]

Again, you get it wrong. I have never said I have the only way. I have repeatedly said the correct way is in the Bible for all to read.

A personal relationship with God must be done on God's terms which He specified in the Bible. You are not free to make up the terms of the relationship.

You are one that says the Bible is false. You are the one following myths. I trust that someday, you will see the Truth.

You do realize that he is only doing this to stir you up, don't you? He thrives on people telling him how wrong he is. If we ignore him, he will stop.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You do realize that he is only doing this to stir you up, don't you? He thrives on people telling him how wrong he is. If we ignore him, he will stop.

I am trusting in God to remove the scales from his eyes.

I totally ignore him in every other forum.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Are you really willing to trust in your own ideas, your own image of God, the idol that you created in your own mind to comfort yourself? When it comes to eternity?

That is in fact the way that it needs to be done.

That is what a personal (one to one) relationship with God means.

A group relationship is not a personal one.

Consider any other book discussion and each person that read the book will tell their own perspective and how they personally feel about what the book said and how it talked to them personally.

But in a Bible group there is a leader telling the others what the Bible says and the leaders tell the students what to believe and so the people must keep their own feelings and opinions silent or else the teacher will correct them.

That is what orthodoxy does to its sheep.

 

[PsyOps]

That is in fact the way that it needs to be done.

That is what a personal (one to one) relationship with God means.

A group relationship is not a personal one.

Then why did Jesus feel the need to have so many disciples? Fact is, Jesus knew we needed fellowship with other believers in order to support each other and confirm our love for Christ, and correct each other when we get off track.

Jesus said:

"Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."… Mathew 18:19-20​

This explains why you continuously miss the point; you decide to go it alone.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Then why did Jesus feel the need to have so many disciples?

Well I hate to keep contradicting but the fact is that Jesus only had 12 disciples and that is not very many considering who He was.

Then later after Christ crucified and the disciples were together for Pentecost there was only 120 persons link HERE and that is not very many either considering that was the beginning of Christianity.

Now I am not criticizing as I like the few in number because the multitudes are naturally ignorant and only the few lead the many sheep, but it was only a few.

Fact is, Jesus knew we needed fellowship with other believers in order to support each other and confirm our love for Christ, and correct each other when we get off track.

The fellowship does not mean we give away our personal power and or our personal authority to others.

Churches and people that expect us all to believe the exact same thing are abusing the sheep.

This explains why you continuously miss the point; you decide to go it alone.

The saying of take up thy cross means all alone.

We are born alone, and we convert alone, and we die alone.

It is fine to have friends and bretheren and fellowship but we must make our own personal stand.

 

[PsyOps]

Well I hate to keep contradicting but the fact is that Jesus only had 12 disciples and that is not very many considering who He was.

No you don’t. That’s is your lot in life. Only 12? Thousands followed Jesus around. Of course I’m sure that’s one of the lies in the Bible right?

Then later after Christ crucified and the disciples were together for Pentecost there was only 120 persons link HERE and that is not very many either considering that was the beginning of Christianity.

Only 120? So tell me, what is a valid number to constitute a group of followers? How many do you see in a typical church today? 50? 120? 200? Do all these people have it wrong and only you JPC has it right?

Now I am not criticizing as I like the few in number because the multitudes are naturally ignorant and only the few lead the many sheep, but it was only a few.

I would rather be ignorant in large numbers than ignorant alone. I can at least confirm my faults with others and be corrected. You remain ignorant because you only rely on your own counsel.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Jesus never claimed to be God. He said he was the "son of man" and became the "son of God" but Jesus said to pray to "our Father in Heaven" and not to himself.

JOHN 8 V 56-58. He claims to be the "I AM", a title reserved for God alone.
JOHN 10 v 30. The Greek word "one" is neuter meaning, not one person but one entity or essence (thing). The Father & the Holy Spirit did not become flesh, only Jesus did, so the 3 in the Godhead are one in essence, but 3 separate beings.
JOHN 2 v 19 along with Acts 2 v 24. How can a dead man raise a dead man from the dead? Acts says God will raise Jesus and John says that Jesus will raise Himself from the dead. A contradiction? NO.! A claim to Deity. Only a cultist claims that Jesus is NOT God!

When Jesus said that seeing him we see the Father means we see God through Christ but they are separate beings.

I actually agree with you on this one point. Jesus is the ONLY one who can be equal with God and yet be separate from Him. Jesus DID NOT pray to Himself. When He prayed to God He was speaking as a man would (His human side). The Father & The Holy Spirit did not become flesh as Jesus did. It's very simple JPC. even a child can understand. It's when we look too deep into it or aren't saved, that we misunderstand it.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

No you don’t. That’s is your lot in life. Only 12? Thousands followed Jesus around. Of course I’m sure that’s one of the lies in the Bible right?

I agree that thousands followed Him but He only had 12 disciples.

Only 120? So tell me, what is a valid number to constitute a group of followers? How many do you see in a typical church today? 50? 120? 200? Do all these people have it wrong and only you JPC has it right?

I have no objection to there being 120 at Pentecost,

but before there were thousands and then 120.

It does appear that I am the only one that has it right about everyone being saved - kind of a personal blessing I say.

I would rather be ignorant in large numbers than ignorant alone. I can at least confirm my faults with others and be corrected. You remain ignorant because you only rely on your own counsel.

You say I am ignorant but I feel fine about my own inteligence.

If you want to be ignorant in a group instead of ignorant alone then surprise - you got both.

 

[libby]

Are you all familiar with Psalm 22? It begins with the very words Jesus uttered from the Cross. "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?" It goes on to speak of the great power of God in the face of so many evils. It ends in great praise of God's ultimate power and that the psalmist will praise God forever.
IMO, and I think many of you, too, would acknowledge that the Jews of the period were quite well versed in Scripture. I imagine almost all of it was memorized by all Jews. I think many of those who listened to Jesus' words would have recognized the psalm right away, and the ultimate triumph that is told within it. It seems to me that it was, contrary to the idea of a cry of despair, instead a way of reminding all those who were heartbroken to trust in God's Love, Wisdom and Infinite Goodness. Reminding them that God would NOT have abandoned Jesus at that time.

 

[libby]

My I interject here? Jesus had only 12 Apostles, and many, many disciples. My Bible is not handy, but if memory serves, the Apostles only were the ones He breathed on in the Upper Room. It was here that He said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" and "Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, etc. etc." Significant because the only other time God breathed (I think) on man was when He breathed life into Adam. This has profound implications that would take this thread way off topic.
Anyway, again, Apostles being different from the disciples, no matter what the number. It was the disciples on whom the Holy Spirit descended as tongues of fire at Pentecost.
We are all disciples.

 

[PsyOps]

I agree that thousands followed Him but He only had 12 disciples. I have no objection to there being 120 at Pentecost,

but before there were thousands and then 120.

And since there has been billions, perhaps in the trillions. What's your point? Are you saying the billions in history are wrong and you JPC alone are right? OMG... could it be? Are we talking to Him right here in the forum?

For crying out loud...........................

It does appear that I am the only one that has it right about everyone being saved - kind of a personal blessing I say.

Go back to drinking your or whatever it is that's in that cup.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

And since there has been billions, perhaps in the trillions. What's your point? Are you saying the billions in history are wrong and you JPC alone are right? OMG... could it be? Are we talking to Him right here in the forum?

For crying out loud...........................





Go back to drinking your or whatever it is that's in that cup.

The fact that I am correct and billions or even trillions of other people are wrong is very perfect since everyone everywhere for all times do get saved no matter what,

so the fact that others are wrong and I am correct is just that I found the secret surprise hidden from others.

Other people anywhere could have learned that truth too as it is available if anyone would honestly seek it out as I had to do.

Even now the truth is here available to SoMd Forum and so if ye believe then so be it - or not.

 

[PsyOps]

The fact that I am correct and billions or even trillions of other people are wrong is very perfect since everyone everywhere for all times do get saved no matter what,

so the fact that others are wrong and I am correct is just that I found the secret surprise hidden from others.

Other people anywhere could have learned that truth too as it is available if anyone would honestly seek it out as I had to do.

Even now the truth is here available to SoMd Forum and so if ye believe then so be it - or not.

Doesn't get much more arrogant or delusional than this folks.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferrari

Doesn't get much more arrogant or delusional than this folks.

It is called confidence.

You must believe that the majority makes right like if millions of people believe one thing then it must be true.

Or that there is safety in numbers so you can get lost in the croud and never venture out.

All I do is read the scriptures and then I trust my own eyes and I believe my own interpretation.

It is not a blessing to be a sheep that follows the herd.

 

[Giantone]

The fact that I am correct and billions or even trillions of other people are wrong is very perfect since everyone everywhere for all times do get saved no matter what,

so the fact that others are wrong and I am correct is just that I found the secret surprise hidden from others.

If this isn't the most egotistical BS I have ever read in my life ,you are a moronic imbecile that has no right to post or to speak as far as I'm concerned .After what you did to your own family you should be in Jail and the fact that you promot the neglect and abuse of children that come from divorced homes you should be in jail for the rest of your life with your son.
Hell does exsist and you put your son and wife in it and I hope you spen eternity it it yourself!

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
It does appear that I am the only one that has it right about everyone being saved - kind of a personal blessing I say. You say I am ignorant but I feel fine about my own inteligence.
...

Or it is your wishful ignorance on the subject and you are totally incorrect. Your view is contrary to the Bible therefore it is wrong.

I am trusting the scales will fall from your eyes.

 

[2ndAmendment]

My I interject here? Jesus had only 12 Apostles, and many, many disciples. My Bible is not handy, but if memory serves, the Apostles only were the ones He breathed on in the Upper Room. It was here that He said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" and "Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven, etc. etc." Significant because the only other time God breathed (I think) on man was when He breathed life into Adam. This has profound implications that would take this thread way off topic.
Anyway, again, Apostles being different from the disciples, no matter what the number. It was the disciples on whom the Holy Spirit descended as tongues of fire at Pentecost.
We are all disciples.

I just read Matthew 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, and John 14 which are the accounts of the Lord's supper or the last supper in the upper room and and also Acts 1 & 2 which is the account of the gathering in the upper room and the day of Pentecost and it is no account of Jesus breathing on the or commanding them to receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus does say in John 14:16-31 that when He goes to the Father that He will ask the the Father will send the Helper, the Holy Spirit.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The fact that I am correct and billions or even trillions of other people are wrong is very perfect since everyone everywhere for all times do get saved no matter what,

so the fact that others are wrong and I am correct is just that I found the secret surprise hidden from others.

Other people anywhere could have learned that truth too as it is available if anyone would honestly seek it out as I had to do.

Even now the truth is here available to SoMd Forum and so if ye believe then so be it - or not.

This is the truth according to you, but not the Truth according to the Bible therefore your truth is not truth at all but a lie.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It is called confidence.

You must believe that the majority makes right like if millions of people believe one thing then it must be true.

Or that there is safety in numbers so you can get lost in the croud and never venture out.

All I do is read the scriptures and then I trust my own eyes and I believe my own interpretation.

It is not a blessing to be a sheep that follows the herd.

The majority of the people of the earth do not believe the Bible. Christians, not mealy mouth want to bes, but those that would give up their lives for their faith in Jesus are being made fun of, persecuted, even put to death right now. There is no safety in numbers in Christianity.

Keeping your own council is dangerous for it is through reading the scripture, the gathering of believers, and the council of others that we are to learn. Only believing ones own council is very dangerous indeed.

Everyone is not saved. The Bible says so. Jesus says so. Who should I believe? Hmmm? JPC or Jesus and God's word. Is that a choice? Not even. The Bible is the absolute word of God and Jesus is God revealed as man. I'll believe Jesus and the Bible.

Why is it Jesus called His followers His sheep? Because sheep do follow the shepherd and recognize His voice.

Wake up JPC. Your believe and are teaching a very dangerous lie.