not having a college degree seen as a negative thing

[itsbob]

its never happened before and it wont happen. Its a freaking hypothetical

It's never happened?

We know Obama went to College, we know (or do we just assume) that he graduated.

What else do we know?

Do we know his grades?

Where he ranked in his graduating class?

How he got admitted, what was the criteria that got him there in the first place?

Have we read any of his works? Any Thesis material? Any research?

So yeah, it's happened, we've elected somebody solely based on his "being educated".. and he's kind of black.

 

[vraiblonde]

so you are saying that if you knew nothing else about two candidates for president you would choose the less educated man over the more educated?

No. I am saying that formal education, or lack thereof, isn't a good indicator of presidential worth.

Although if someone held a gun to my teddybear's head and said, "Pick on of these two candidates based only on this limited information, or the bear gets it," I would most likely choose the "less" educated one. The reason? Because I would think that the guy with no college, who got to that stage in life anyway, had more on the ball.

 

[Roman]

No. I am saying that formal education, or lack thereof, isn't a good indicator of presidential worth.

Although if someone held a gun to my teddybear's head and said, "Pick on of these two candidates based only on this limited information, or the bear gets it," I would most likely choose the "less" educated one. The reason? Because I would think that the guy with no college, who got to that stage in life anyway, had more on the ball.

Love this!

 

[DipStick]

I think you have it backwards... Dean is claiming if you don't have a college degree you're not qualified to be president. THAT is an elitist POV. Those on the other side of this are not saying having a degree is elitist, they are saying it's nonsense to claim you must have a degree to be qualified to be POTUS.

And those demanding to see his transcripts are just doing what politicians do. It's very normal for those running for office to offer up their personal information (taxes, school transcripts, etc...) in the interest of transparency. Because Obama (this most transparent president in history ) has his sealed up gives people suspicion to believe he has something to hide. Mostly I don't care. Whether his degree is actually valid or not, he is grossly unqualified for the job he is holding.

Actually, it's not standard protocol to release college transcripts. Bush did not release his, they were leaked. Clinton actually demanded that his transcripts be sealed. Reagan didn't release his. So, it's not actually a thing politicians do. It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

Regardless, you see the irony, right? Right wing blogs suggested that he didn't actually attend college and, because he won't release transcripts, he might be lying. But now, someone not finishing college is a great thing and anyone who thinks it isn't is an elitist.

Honestly, Scott Walker is one semester shy of getting a degree. Not going back and finishing that semester does hint at a lack of commitment from someone running for President of the United States of America.

 

[Lurk]

Actually, it's not standard protocol to release college transcripts. Bush did not release his, they were leaked. Clinton actually demanded that his transcripts be sealed. Reagan didn't release his. So, it's not actually a thing politicians do. It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

Regardless, you see the irony, right? Right wing blogs suggested that he didn't actually attend college and, because he won't release transcripts, he might be lying. But now, someone not finishing college is a great thing and anyone who thinks it isn't is an elitist.

Honestly, Scott Walker is one semester shy of getting a degree. Not going back and finishing that semester does hint at a lack of commitment from someone running for President of the United States of America.

And how close were you to getting your Bachelors?

 

[PrchJrkr]

Actually, it's not standard protocol to release college transcripts. Bush did not release his, they were leaked. Clinton actually demanded that his transcripts be sealed. Reagan didn't release his. So, it's not actually a thing politicians do. It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

Regardless, you see the irony, right? Right wing blogs suggested that he didn't actually attend college and, because he won't release transcripts, he might be lying. But now, someone not finishing college is a great thing and anyone who thinks it isn't is an elitist.

Honestly, Scott Walker is one semester shy of getting a degree. Not going back and finishing that semester does hint at a lack of commitment from someone running for President of the United States of America.

...or maybe he was just feed up with the liberal ideals that the majority of college "professors" spew.

 

[vraiblonde]

It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

I'm sure someone already mentioned this, but the only reason anyone gives a damn about Obama's grades is because for YEARS! the lefties have been bawling about what a big dummy George Bush was, and casting aspersions on his academic record (even though he did indeed graduate Harvard Business with a C average). They didn't care to comment on Al Gore flunking out of two colleges, nor did they care when it came out that Bush actually had a higher GPA than John Kerry. Bush was a dummy and that's that.

Any interest in Obama's college transcripts is merely a response to the Left trying to pretend that their guys are more educated and smarter than the Right's guys, which is clearly and factually not true. And since Obama always acts like he's the smartest guy on the planet, I don't think it's out of line to ask him to enlighten us on why he feels that way, given what a ####ing moron he has been with regard to governing this nation.

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

...or maybe he was just feed up with the liberal ideals that the majority of college "professors" spew.

What are these "liberal ideals" that most college professors spew? Evolution? Big bang theory?

 

[vraiblonde]

What are these "liberal ideals" that most college professors spew? Evolution? Big bang theory?

In my very brief community college experience, I had two out of five professors who were blatant and self-described liberal Democrats. They spent much of the class time trying to indoctrinate their students, presenting their crackpot ideology as "fact" and not up for debate. Their rhetoric had absolutely nothing to do with the actual class or with anything we were studying. They would go off spontaneously about man-made global warming, evil big business and oil, and how Jews needed to back off the Palestinians, among other tirades. If any of us tried to engage them, we were immediately shut down and ridiculed from the bully pulpit.

The other three profs, I couldn't tell you what their political leanings were. But I had zero professors who touted a conservative agenda, or self-identified as Republican.

Just my personal experience.

 

[This_person]

I'm sure someone already mentioned this, but the only reason anyone gives a damn about Obama's grades is because for YEARS! the lefties have been bawling about what a big dummy George Bush was, and casting aspersions on his academic record (even though he did indeed graduate Harvard Business with a C average). They didn't care to comment on Al Gore flunking out of two colleges, nor did they care when it came out that Bush actually had a higher GPA than John Kerry. Bush was a dummy and that's that.

Any interest in Obama's college transcripts is merely a response to the Left trying to pretend that their guys are more educated and smarter than the Right's guys, which is clearly and factually not true. And since Obama always acts like he's the smartest guy on the planet, I don't think it's out of line to ask him to enlighten us on why he feels that way, given what a ####ing moron he has been with regard to governing this nation.

I did mention that, as you said:

Andy, you intentionally or unintentionally misunderstood or are misrepresenting.

People wanted to see his records for a multitude of reasons including - comparison with Bush, who was portrayed as a dolt by liberals for getting Bs and Cs in college; read his writings for even more evidence of his poor thinking; see how he registered; see how he paid; and, demonstrating that he is the exact opposite of transparent and open. The argument "he got all Ds in college" was meant to get people to say to themselves "that can't be true" and have them search, finding for themselves he clearly has something to hide.

Also, people aren't saying that having a degree is elitist. They're saying that those who feel NOT having a college degree is disqualifying for the presidency are elitist.

If you're going to disagree, then disagree with what's being said.

 

[Dakota]

Actually, it's not standard protocol to release college transcripts. Bush did not release his, they were leaked. Clinton actually demanded that his transcripts be sealed. Reagan didn't release his. So, it's not actually a thing politicians do. It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

Regardless, you see the irony, right? Right wing blogs suggested that he didn't actually attend college and, because he won't release transcripts, he might be lying. But now, someone not finishing college is a great thing and anyone who thinks it isn't is an elitist.

Honestly, Scott Walker is one semester shy of getting a degree. Not going back and finishing that semester does hint at a lack of commitment from someone running for President of the United States of America.

College records for the highest position in the land should be released, in fact, we should see his resume and transcripts. As far as I am concerned, his college records are important because instead of working he was a full-time college student. That becomes part of his experience. If you don't have the experience, education can be a substitute and vice versa. It isn't so much about the degree itself as it is accounting for that time.

 

[GURPS]

We've hired people without a college degree whose only experience seemed to be playing video games. Those usually far exceeded expectations because video gamers understand 360 degree thinking that the 4.0 student may not.

I filled seasonal IT Slots in my office [I was the dept. manager] with Gamers ....
.... people that knew how install software, ins and outs of networking - ie how to get their own game server on line so there friends could play along ...
... fixing something when it broke and most of all, when to ask questions when they did not have the answer

on guy was the Go To Guy for his pool of friends on friday nights when the played LOL or Dota LAN Parties ... he hooked it all up

 

[GURPS]

US Presidents who were not college educated

SPOILER: Two of them are on Mount Rushmore.

Our most (formally) educated president was/is Dr. Woodrow Wilson, who campaigned for his second term with the slogan, "He kept us out of war," and upon his re-election promptly launched us into WWI. And that was only one of his pockmarks on this country that we are feeling the ramifications of to this day.

Wilson could not handle the pressures of school dropped out and had to finish up his studies at home

 

[LibertyBeacon]

In my very brief community college experience, I had two out of five professors who were blatant and self-described liberal Democrats. They spent much of the class time trying to indoctrinate their students, presenting their crackpot ideology as "fact" and not up for debate. Their rhetoric had absolutely nothing to do with the actual class or with anything we were studying. They would go off spontaneously about man-made global warming, evil big business and oil, and how Jews needed to back off the Palestinians, among other tirades. If any of us tried to engage them, we were immediately shut down and ridiculed from the bully pulpit.

The other three profs, I couldn't tell you what their political leanings were. But I had zero professors who touted a conservative agenda, or self-identified as Republican.

Just my personal experience.

The problem here is "community college" aka the 13th grade. You don't tend to have these problems in private universities.

 

[PsyOps]

Actually, it's not standard protocol to release college transcripts. Bush did not release his, they were leaked. Clinton actually demanded that his transcripts be sealed. Reagan didn't release his. So, it's not actually a thing politicians do. It's a new thing that righties demanded of President Obama.

Regardless, you see the irony, right? Right wing blogs suggested that he didn't actually attend college and, because he won't release transcripts, he might be lying. But now, someone not finishing college is a great thing and anyone who thinks it isn't is an elitist.

Honestly, Scott Walker is one semester shy of getting a degree. Not going back and finishing that semester does hint at a lack of commitment from someone running for President of the United States of America.

Actually, you can’t really find anything other than forums on the subject. I was going on memory and my memory tells me at least going back to Reagan (which is about as far back as my memory goes for presidents) they were demanded to release their tax and college records. Some did and some didn't. I could be wrong about this, and don’t really care. It’s really an insignificant issue anyway for me. What the right wingnuts don’t do is tell folks in a snobbish, elitist fashion that you’re not qualified to be POTUS if you don’t have that worthless piece of paper saying you have a degree. Dean is proof with that very point that having a degree means nothing in terms of having one lick of common sense and intelligence. I don’t give a damn about Obama’s education. One of the most ‘educated’ people in this country - he has proven he is unqualified for that job; proving all that so-called ‘education’ is worthless.

And now you’re going to question Walker’s commitment because he didn’t finish his degree. You lefties will stick your elitist noses up at anyone you disagree with, and dredge up the most inane information on someone for the sole purpose of personal attacks. Walker is a very successful governor and is actually posing a threat for POTUS, and it’s obviously making you nervous. It’s your standard MO when someone on the right becomes threat – you launch frivolous attacks against that person.

 

[vraiblonde]

The problem here is "community college" aka the 13th grade. You don't tend to have these problems in private universities.

I will submit that there are probably *more* liberal activist professors in "real" colleges and universities. They make the news frequently, and a number of them are public figures who have public histories that we are familiar with.

 

[GURPS]

Mike Rowe Was Asked If a College Degree Should Be Required for Elected Office. His Educated Response Is a Breath of Fresh Air.


Which brought Rowe to Dean’s comments: “I don’t agree with Howard Dean — not at all.”

“Look at how we hire help — it’s no so different than how we elect leaders,” Rowe continued. “We search for work ethic on resumes. We look for intelligence in test scores. We search for character in references. And of course, we look at a four-year diploma as though it might actually tell us something about common-sense and leadership.”

Rowe then discussed the importance and merit of jobs that don’t require a university education, noting that “a trillion dollars of student loans and a massive skills gap are precisely what happens to a society that actively promotes one form of education as the best course for the most people.”

Walker himself hit back at criticism over his lack of a college degree, telling Fox News’ Megyn Kelly on Tuesday that it’s an “elitist, government-knows-best, top-down approach from Washington we’ve heard for years” and that the “Ivy League-trained lawyer” in the White House now has done a “pretty lousy job leading this country.”

For Rowe, there was no question about his stance, as he emphasized that “making elected office contingent on a college degree is maybe the worst idea I’ve ever heard.”

part of Mike R's response:

Here’s what I didn’t understand 25 years ago. QVC had a serious recruiting problem. Qualified candidates were applying in droves, but failing miserably on the air. Polished salespeople with proven track records were awkward on TV. Professional actors with extensive credits couldn’t be themselves on camera. And seasoned hosts who understood live television had no experience hawking products. So eventually, QVC hit the reset button. They stopped looking for “qualified” people, and started looking for anyone who could talk about a pencil for eight minutes.

QVC had confused qualifications with competency.
Perhaps America has done something similar?

Look at how we hire help – it’s no so different than how we elect leaders. We search for work ethic on resumes. We look for intelligence in test scores. We search for character in references. And of course, we look at a four-year diploma as though it might actually tell us something about common-sense and leadership.

Obviously, we need a bit more from our elected officials than the instincts of a home shopping host, but the business of determining what those “qualifications” are is completely up to us. We get to decide what matters most. We get to decide if a college degree or military service is somehow determinative. We get to decide if Howard Dean is correct.​

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

You lefties will stick your elitist noses up at anyone you disagree with, and dredge up the most inane information on someone for the sole purpose of personal attacks.

A conservative would NEVER dredge up inane information for the sole purpose of personal attacks! Insane information, yes, but never inane.

 

[LibertyBeacon]

I will submit that there are probably *more* liberal activist professors in "real" colleges and universities. They make the news frequently, and a number of them are public figures who have public histories that we are familiar with.

You're probably thinking of government run universities. On balance, you don't find that to be the case in private universities. Of course, there are exceptions that prove the rule, so there's no need to digging just so you can have a "neener, neener, neener" moment.

I find it enigmatic when people complain about government educations as if there aren't other options. You get what you pay for.

 

[LibertyBeacon]

part of Mike R's response:

Here’s what I didn’t understand 25 years ago. QVC had a serious recruiting problem. Qualified candidates were applying in droves, but failing miserably on the air. Polished salespeople with proven track records were awkward on TV. Professional actors with extensive credits couldn’t be themselves on camera. And seasoned hosts who understood live television had no experience hawking products. So eventually, QVC hit the reset button. They stopped looking for “qualified” people, and started looking for anyone who could talk about a pencil for eight minutes.

QVC had confused qualifications with competency.
Perhaps America has done something similar?

Look at how we hire help – it’s no so different than how we elect leaders. We search for work ethic on resumes. We look for intelligence in test scores. We search for character in references. And of course, we look at a four-year diploma as though it might actually tell us something about common-sense and leadership.

Obviously, we need a bit more from our elected officials than the instincts of a home shopping host, but the business of determining what those “qualifications” are is completely up to us. We get to decide what matters most. We get to decide if a college degree or military service is somehow determinative. We get to decide if Howard Dean is correct.​

Who is Mike Rowe?