Now more than ever...

B

Bruzilla

Guest
rr, folks like you just have no clue what you are talking about. Not because you are stupid, but because you just have no idea of the logistics that are required to mount an effort like this.

First, there's no way that any competent leader is going to pre-position his/her assets at the point of devastation in order to get aid in quicker. If your trucks, busses, and other equipment are destroyed they won't do anyone much good. So you have to get them out of the impact area to protect them, which means time lost in getting them to the affected area.

Second, you only have so much "stuff" to work with, especially things like trucks and trailers, so there's no point in loading them up until you know what you need. There would be no point in loading up your trucks with tents for the homeless only to find out there's no place to set the tents up due to flooding and what you really need are inflatable boats. There's no point loading up on food, which people can live without for weeks or months, only to find out what you really need is water. Yes, you can rush off with the wrong "stuff" and be timely, or you can first assess the situation and use your limited assets to bring what you need. And that takes time too.

Third, you have to acquire a lot of manpower to make all this happen. You need to get the authority, which happens quickly, but then you need to get all of the people you need to get everything going, from truck drivers, to loaders, to fuelers, to food preparers, and on and on, and that just takes time to organize.

Fourth, once you get all the equipment and people ready to roll, then you have to actually get them into position. So all of this takes a heck of a lot more time than taking a van, stopping at Wal Mart and loading it up, and driving it into town with a couple of buddies. And outfits like Wal Mart have turned product distribution/delivery into a science because that's their life blood, so of course they can get things done quicker than the support groups for a mechanized national guard battalion and it's really unfair to try to compare the two.

I also think that while there's all this blamestorming going on, there's two groups that are working hard to fly below the radar. The first is the media. They've been overdramatizing every storm that's shown up for years. They make every smaller hurricane out to be the next Andrew, and every tropical storm out to be another time to panic. It's the same as how every snowstorm back in Maryland was touted as the new potential BLIZZARD OF THE CENTURY!!! All this over-hyping of storms has caused people to become desensitized to the warnings.

And speaking of the people, I think there's also lots of blame to be cast on the fine residents of New Orleans. I've seen plenty of video of floods and storm disasters in my day, and until now I've always seen neighbors helping neighbors. They're out there by the hundreds filling sandbags, shoring up properties, helping on SAR efforts. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of that in New Orleans where it seemed like most of the people, who really were the "first boots on the ground" were running about either looting or waiting for someone to come and tell them where to go or what to do. I've never heard the later being an issue in a disaster before, yet I heard the media types yacking that line over and over again. These poor people don't know where to go or what to do, and they're sitting around waiting for someone to tell them. Gee... if it's wet where you're standing... go to where it's dry! duh! If nothing else, follow the crowds... they're all going somewhere.

The big complaint I heard from the refugees at the Superdome is that they were being "treated like animals." Well, they've been treated like animals for decades, but since they were getting their welfare and support checks they were happy. So much for Johnson's "Great Society."
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Bruz...

...it is helpful to lay out the logistical facts.

It reinforces peoples natural feeling that you just can't make a problem, a disaster, go away over night.

Having said that, the standard being applied by the blamestormers (nice word)
is a simple catch-22;

If ANYONE suffers, not enough was done.

If things were astoundingly better in 7 days then it must have be done in 6 days.

6? then 5.

5? then 4 and so on up to the point that the Nanny State prevented any suffering at all.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
This is the same thing that happens when some kid falls off his bike - 6 million whiners converge on lawmakers and demand that "we DO something" so that things like this NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!

They do this any time ANYONE gets hurt or killed.

Kid dies on the Mission: Space ride - nevermind that millions of people have ridden it without incident - and suddenly they "must DO something" because "it may be only one death but it's one death too many!!"

:rolleyes:
 

ylexot

Super Genius
:yeahthat:

Same thing with gun trigger locks. Some stupid kid plays with a gun and kills himself or someone else and suddenly I have to have a trigger lock on my gun so that my non-existent kid doesn't hurt him/herself. :dork:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
There is the DUMBEST...

ylexot said:
:yeahthat:

Same thing with gun trigger locks. Some stupid kid plays with a gun and kills himself or someone else and suddenly I have to have a trigger lock on my gun so that my non-existent kid doesn't hurt him/herself. :dork:


...thing on the planet.

If one chooses to keep a firearm ready for home defense, it logically should be kept ready. Not locked up and lockep away, READY.

If you are scared of the kids getting ahold of it then don't have one, at all.
Kids I mean.

Imagine a fire extinguisher sitting there as the home burns to the ground because no one could get the lock off. Or it was up in a closet somewhere in a safe.
 

Jambalaya

SpicyHot
2ndAmendment said:
I think there is one more group to lay some fault on, the folks that stayed despite the evacuation order. If they could walk out after the storm, they could have walked out before the storm.

I agree they should have left. But walk where? N.O. is surrounded by lakes rivers and swamps for miles. Baton Rouge is 60 miles away, even for conditioned walkers thats 3 days. The evac order would have had to come a whole lot sooner.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Jambalaya said:
I agree they should have left. But walk where? N.O. is surrounded by lakes rivers and swamps for miles. Baton Rouge is 60 miles away, even for conditioned walkers thats 3 days. The evac order would have had to come a whole lot sooner.
and not knowing the EXACT path, some would have walked from a safe zone, right into the path of a Cat IV hurricane..
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Larry Gude said:
...thing on the planet.

If one chooses to keep a firearm ready for home defense, it logically should be kept ready. Not locked up and lockep away, READY.

If you are scared of the kids getting ahold of it then don't have one, at all.
Kids I mean.

Imagine a fire extinguisher sitting there as the home burns to the ground because no one could get the lock off. Or it was up in a closet somewhere in a safe.
Granted you're not going to take an infant or a toddler to a range to teach them how to shoot, but if you chose to have guns in the house, you better train them on how to use them, and gun safety..

When a study was done with kids from anti gun parents, and gun parents.. the anti kids picked up a gun on a playgorund, pointed it at their friends, pulled the trigger.. etc.. the gun kids actually left it alone, and got an adult, parent, or some even called 911..

As is usual, education was the key, and usually works better then a locked cabinet or a locked drawer..
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
Bruz, good post.
Bruzilla said:
All this over-hyping of storms has caused people to become desensitized to the warnings.
Here comes another catch-22: if the media/government don't post warnings then they'll be chastised for letting people die.

When Katrina crossed the tip of FL the warnings were waved. Most people ignored them... and about 10 died. Nobody to blame, except the individuals.

If you know the natural hazards of a given geographic area and you choose to remain there you are signing an unwritten contract to deal with what may come. If the thought of evacuating due to an approaching hurricane, for example, is distasteful to you then you should not be living within 30 miles of the east coast (NC south). And when the inevitable does happen you shouldn't simply suck your thumb and cry... you deal with it.

Bruzilla said:
These poor people don't know where to go or what to do, and they're sitting around waiting for someone to tell them. Gee... if it's wet where you're standing... go to where it's dry! duh! If nothing else, follow the crowds... they're all going somewhere.
:lol: Great advice -- until you're several miles down I-10, out of N.O., and realize a portion has been blown apart.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
This Is Not The Business...

Jambalaya said:
I agree they should have left. But walk where? N.O. is surrounded by lakes rivers and swamps for miles. Baton Rouge is 60 miles away, even for conditioned walkers thats 3 days. The evac order would have had to come a whole lot sooner.


...of the federal government. Or the fault.

New Orleans, both the people and the local representatives, being the ones in immediate danger, being 10 feet below sea level and surrounded by dikes and living with the common knowledge of the 'big one' being a matter of time, had an obligation to have a plan.

You WILL die if you don't move.

Figure it out. Move or don't.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Jambalaya said:
But walk where? N.O. is surrounded by lakes rivers and swamps for miles.
Oh what the hell, since no one else beat me to it:

If these people can't even walk out of danger, how do they expect the feds to bring in trucks and buses for them?

Dur.
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
vraiblonde said:
If these people can't even walk out of danger, how do they expect the feds to bring in trucks and buses for them?
They don't expect... the Feds are supposed to be thinking for them.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Jambalaya said:
I agree they should have left. But walk where? N.O. is surrounded by lakes rivers and swamps for miles. Baton Rouge is 60 miles away, even for conditioned walkers thats 3 days. The evac order would have had to come a whole lot sooner.
60 miles/3 days? Average walking spead on good terrain is just about 2.7 miles an hour. Seems with a storm pushing them they could have made it to Baton Rouge in about 22 hours on average. Find a bicycle and you can really knock down the time.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Bicycle????

Ken King said:
60 miles/3 days? Average walking spead on good terrain is just about 2.7 miles an hour. Seems with a storm pushing them they could have made it to Baton Rouge in about 22 hours on average. Find a bicycle and you can really knock down the time.


BICYCLE!?!!!?!?!?

Oh yeah, sure. YOU can afford a $20 used bike but not everyone can! What next? Bicycle built for two? Mo Peds? Hitch hiking? Rent a trailer with SUV neighbors and get out together?

You don't understand; these people were TRAPPED by the policies of their government and ONLY the government can save them! Why, you keep up that kind of talk, motivated walking, bicycles, and, well, what next? I guess you expect people to MOVE where the jobs are, hmm? Not live in swamps? Brush their tooth before bed? Eat right?

My word, man. What of the beauracracies we won't need anymore??? What will Hostess do?

HHHMMM????
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
BICYCLE!?!!!?!?!?

Oh yeah, sure. YOU can afford a $20 used bike but not everyone can! What next? Bicycle built for two? Mo Peds? Hitch hiking? Rent a trailer with SUV neighbors and get out together?

You don't understand; these people were TRAPPED by the policies of their government and ONLY the government can save them! Why, you keep up that kind of talk, motivated walking, bicycles, and, well, what next? I guess you expect people to MOVE where the jobs are, hmm? Not live in swamps? Brush their tooth before bed? Eat right?

My word, man. What of the beauracracies we won't need anymore??? What will Hostess do?

HHHMMM????
With the wind that they had a few shopping carts, sticks, and sheets and they could have sailed out to Baton Rouge in less then 30 minutes. :biggrin:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Here we sit all safe and sound...

Ken King said:
With the wind that they had a few shopping carts, sticks, and sheets and they could have sailed out to Baton Rouge in less then 30 minutes. :biggrin:


...and WE know what to do to get out. There they sat NEEDING to do something and...and...no plan. Not even one on the fly; just sit, just die.
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
And now that the blame Bush game hasn't worked for others, the Governor has turned on the Mayor. I wonder if Bush capitalized on Landrieu's and others screams for an investigation and pre-empted with the call for an oversight committee because he really knew which side would be hung in the end (the State Democrats and their Senator). Nah! He is that non-super genius evil super genius. :lmao:
 
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