Come on. We are discussing the Savior of mankind.
And the Bible says to fear God.
And there are lots of others in the New Testament, too.
Osteen as heretic?
- Thread starter Larry Gude
- Start date
Come on. We are discussing the Savior of mankind.
And the Bible says to fear God.
Thanks Marie. Take up the cause. I have to go to bed; work tomorrow.
God bless you all. May God grant all of His messengers the wisdom to witness as HE wishes us to and give us that guidance all the time in every circumstance.
Good night and Merry Christmas.
God bless you all. May God grant all of His messengers the wisdom to witness as HE wishes us to and give us that guidance all the time in every circumstance.
Good night and Merry Christmas.
Those are his words, from his book!
<DIR><DIR>Pro 1:7 Fear of Jehovah is a beginning of knowledge, Wisdom and instruction fools have despised!
<DIR>2Co 5:11 having known, therefore, the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, and to God we are manifested, and I hope also in your consciences to have been manifested;
</DIR>Psa 19:9 The fear of Jehovah is clean, standing to the age, The judgments of Jehovah are true, They have been righteous--together.
Psa 19:10 They are more desirable than gold, Yea, than much fine gold; and sweeter than honey, Even liquid honey of the comb.
<DIR>Mat 10:28 `And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna. (Jesus Words)
Fear of God is good!
</DIR></DIR></DIR>
High EGT
Gort! Klaatu barada nikto
Fear God?
(Primer) Can you love and fear a parent at the same time?
As with my own father growing up, I feared the consequences if I didn’t obey and as with scripture the intent was to enlighten the believer that the consequences of not obeying God’s law was to be feared and not God itself.
(Primer) Can you love and fear a parent at the same time?
As with my own father growing up, I feared the consequences if I didn’t obey and as with scripture the intent was to enlighten the believer that the consequences of not obeying God’s law was to be feared and not God itself.
No. Osteen does not say that you will have material prosperity. He is talking about prosperity in your soul. And anyone CAN have that.
So are you saying that, if folks don't come to Christ in a specific way, it doesn't count?
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And Osteen doesn't say anything that is against the Bible, unless you're an OT type who thinks God is like some wrathful and destructive child. For every Job there's a Prodigal Son.
Maybe you should give it a shot. Osteen doesn't treat religion like a private club. He has no animosity against other religions. He is neither Democrat nor Republican. His message is that the love of God is open to all.
I fail to see how that can be a bad message to send.
JPC sr
James P. Cusick Sr.
The big pic.
It is like a person that steals some thing and then afraid of being found out and cought.
The sinners are afraid of justice, and rightly so.
ONLY unrepentant sinners fear God because their sins make them afraid.
Their sins make them cling to fearing God and the sinners are afraid of their idea of Hell because the sinner does not fathom what forgiveness and unconditional love means.
The sinner does not fear God - the sinners fear punishment and it blinds them from the truths.
It is not a sound belief in Hell or Godly punishment - that is a false reflection from the sinner's fear.
Those say they accept Jesus but they do not accept the "forgiveness" and they do not understand "unconditional love" or "loving thy enemies" or that we all are "children of God" and no one will get lost or left out.
The sinner does not forgive their fellow people, the sinner does not have mercy, and the unrepentant sinner lives in fear.
It is the unrepentant sinners that are afraid of God and their sins make them blind and deaf to the truths.
It is like a person that steals some thing and then afraid of being found out and cought.The sinners are afraid of justice, and rightly so.
ONLY unrepentant sinners fear God because their sins make them afraid.
Their sins make them cling to fearing God and the sinners are afraid of their idea of Hell because the sinner does not fathom what forgiveness and unconditional love means.
The sinner does not fear God - the sinners fear punishment and it blinds them from the truths.
It is not a sound belief in Hell or Godly punishment - that is a false reflection from the sinner's fear.
Those say they accept Jesus but they do not accept the "forgiveness" and they do not understand "unconditional love" or "loving thy enemies" or that we all are "children of God" and no one will get lost or left out.
The sinner does not forgive their fellow people, the sinner does not have mercy, and the unrepentant sinner lives in fear.
It is the unrepentant sinners that are afraid of God and their sins make them blind and deaf to the truths.
I can not accept that the loving God "allows" evil and pain because that is a violent concept and God is not violent.
Eve ate the apple, so it is all her fault.
Yes, and that is how I've always viewed it. It was the fear of my father that kept me from doing a great number of things other teens were doing, and hopefully that same fear will keep my children from doing things. We will see. :shrug:
Xaquin44
New Member
Eve ate the apple, so it is all her fault.
well so did Adam and getting down to it, god made it in the first place .... he made the serpent too.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
As I told Larry, if Joel's words bring you to Christ, great, just make sure you know that Christianity is not always a bed of roses. When it gets bad, then what about Joel's "feel good" promises? It's like telling your kids that life is all good and wonderful. Just ignore the bad because it isn't real. That's not how life is, and Jesus never taught like Joel. Jesus taught love, compassion & forgiveness BUT He also taught wrath, eternal punishment and sickness because of our sins. I've spoken to and listened to many folks who bought into the "prosperity gospel" and they told me they almost lost their faith in God for good when things didn't come their way as they were told that it would.
You don't need to know anything about hell to be saved but, after you are saved, you need to learn about it and accept it's reality.
That is a BLIND statement JPC. No one in heaven would ever want to join his fellow sinners in Hell, no matter what Billy Joel says.JPC said:
You can be a Christian and ignore Hell all you want. If you're truly saved it shouldn't concern you. I don't think about Hell much because I ain't going anywhere near it. Someone once told me that "if you're saved, this earth is the only Hell you'll see BUT, if you're not, this is the only Heaven you'll see". Makes you think, doesn't it?JPC said:
God didn't "control" Hitler. He worked around his circumstances to make them turn out for OTHER people's good. That's what 2A is saying. God didn't use Hitler like a puppeteer. God knew what Hitler would do and orchestrated other's circumstances for good from that.
Your lack of Bible knowledge is irritating JPC. Stop! God's wrath is nothing but violent. It is His justice for evil people in the world and there's no way around that fact. He DOES allow evil or He would have wiped out ALL of mankind by now as He did once in the flood.
You may have read the Bible but you didn't understand it. God is NOT powerless in any way. It is HIS allowing things that causes some to think He is sleeping or uncaring, both of which are not happening.JPC said:
Kain, Jesus' words drove MANY people away from Him. Look at John 8 and see how he chastized the Jews for their unbelief. Look at what He called them. Look hard and you'll see that Jesus was mad at their unbelief. THEY actually drove themselves away from Jesus. When we speak what Jesus said, it WILL drive many away because of their refusal to believe and accept what they will see as the truth one day soon.
Beating of wives??? Where is that? Although we don't follow the entire OT to the letter today, it doesn't mean that we can disregard it completely. Many OT laws are still valid today and, if they were still followed, the world would be much better off. Like the food laws. Although we can eat whatever we want, God showed us that not everything we eat is good for us.
Dearest Vrai, Let me show you his words in his book (Your best life now) that you might have read and I'll give you the page numbers. You tell me if he meant only "prosperity in your soul":
He mentions financial gain many times in the book as a result of positive thinking and faith in God for it.
"An old adage purports that if you want to be successful, you must follow your dreams. While I'd never suggest that anyone should abandon his or her dreams, the truth is, your life will follow your expectations. What you expect is what you will get". (p. 13)
"I can guarantee you that your difficult situation will never improve as long as you stay in a negative frame of mind. But if you'll develop an attitude of faith and expect events to change positively, then at the right time, that situation will turn around". (p. 16)
Speaking on finances he says: "Make room in your thinking for the great things God wants to do. Your best days are ahead of you. God wants to do more than you can even ask or think, but remember, it's according to the power that works in you. (p. 27-28)
"Remember, if you obey God and are willing to trust Him, you will have the best this life has to offer - and more"! (Last page)
"God wants to increase you financially, by giving you promotions, fresh ideas, and creativity". (p. 5)
"Many times, we pray almost as though we are inconveniencing God. We say, God, would You please give me a bit bigger apartment? I don't want to bother You too much. No, God wants to give you your own house. God has a big dream for your life". (p. 35)
There is so much more but people won't see the error of his teachings because the want to feel good and hear what THEY want to hear. I wish you all would stop thinking that we're antagonists here when we point out the false teachings of others. Anyone can misinterpret the Bible's teachings but, when you read it in "context", it really explains itself. If you only look at the "feel good" verses, it seems great! When you look at only the bad, it seems like it's not for me. When you look at it all, it's real life stuff, just as our lives are. All we're saying is that many TV preachers are using God's Word for financial gain instead of soul gain. They are deceiving many with their crafty methods and sooo many of you are falling for it. Very few come to and stay with Christ in the end and that is the thing we're trying to make you see. Not hatred, bigotry or narrow mindedness, just genuine concern for you. If you get saved and learn under GOOD teachers, you'll see this clearly. I did and I want you to see it too, that's why I do what I do.
JPC sr
James P. Cusick Sr.
That is a BLIND statement JPC. No one in heaven would ever want to join his fellow sinners in Hell,
I believe every person would jump in before serving a tyrant God.Self sacrifice is the most human thing any person can do.
Well, forget it, then. My life is a bed of roses right now as an atheist. If it's going to suck being a Christian, what is my motivation? And don't say "everlasting life" because you've already said it's no bed of roses, so who wants to spend eternity like that?
Really, a bed roses?
Pretty much. My nose is a little stuffy, maybe getting a bit of a cold. But that's about it.
:tissue:? Blow Baby get rid of it!
So here's my question for the Christians:
Do you think you have to be miserable in your earthly life to get to Heaven? I'm thinking about Osteen's book "Your Best Life Now" and how Scallion seems to think it's bad to be happy and prosperous before you die. He made some quotes from the book, implying that it was bad to expect good things and think positively.
So I'm curious if you all think that's the way to salvation: being unhappy on earth? And do you think God wants you to be unhappy on earth?
Do you think you have to be miserable in your earthly life to get to Heaven? I'm thinking about Osteen's book "Your Best Life Now" and how Scallion seems to think it's bad to be happy and prosperous before you die. He made some quotes from the book, implying that it was bad to expect good things and think positively.
So I'm curious if you all think that's the way to salvation: being unhappy on earth? And do you think God wants you to be unhappy on earth?
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Aw come on Vrai. I said it isn't ALWAYS a bed of roses and I'm talking about life on earth. There are many great times. We go through the same things that non believers go through, we're still human, just forgiven and looking forward to a perfect life after death. I have lost friends and put up with a lot of abuse from people but I expect it because Jesus said to.
Side note: My furnace fan quit working about 7pm and I have no heat tonight. Should I get mad at God for this? Doesn't Joel teach that this shouldn't happen to Christians if they think positively? I oiled this fan every 5 years and I was thinking about how well it has been working, but it still quit on me. Tonight my life will not be a bed of roses but it will make me think of those who sleep without heat regularly.
There was a lot to discuss in your post, but I'll start with this because I think it's most interesting.
What is your idea of a perfect life? Muslims want virgins and what-have-you - what do Christians want? And you, in particular? Describe your reward.
That's a serious question, btw, and I'm not being flip.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That's just...
...silly. I'm curious if the detractors of Osteen have ever actually watched or listened to him. His message isn't "Think happy thoughts and you'll be rich and your furnace will never break down."
He offers hope to people with money problems, drug and alcohol problems, problems with stress and home life and clearly, to me, is saying to folks that faith is a way to regain control, to stop doing wrong and start doing right and if that is the work of a heretic, it seems very much like arguing one must run marathons from day one as opposed to building up to it and unless you are running marathons from day you are not only not welcome but wrong.
...silly. I'm curious if the detractors of Osteen have ever actually watched or listened to him. His message isn't "Think happy thoughts and you'll be rich and your furnace will never break down."
He offers hope to people with money problems, drug and alcohol problems, problems with stress and home life and clearly, to me, is saying to folks that faith is a way to regain control, to stop doing wrong and start doing right and if that is the work of a heretic, it seems very much like arguing one must run marathons from day one as opposed to building up to it and unless you are running marathons from day you are not only not welcome but wrong.