Osteen as heretic?

[Kain99]

Still didn't answer the questions. Simple yes or no will do. Has nothing to do with Old Testament law. Of course Jesus said:

My education is not failing me. Nor, have I ever bashed anyone over the head with the Bible!

My goal here is to lead.... To Christ.

What was your goal again?

If you were half the Christian you proclaim to be, you would NEVER take the chance of leading one away.

Soak up my words 2A and pray again.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The Hebrew word sheol is translated as "hell" in the Old Testament. It's meaning is "the common grave of mankind" and has nothing to do with the current definition of "hell", i.e., a place of "fire and brimstone" where the evil are punished throughout eternity. That definition of "hell" comes mostly from the writings of the poet Dante and his book, Inferno.

P.S. Your Holy Book was translated 1827 times before it fell into your hands.

That is why I primarily use the phrase lake of fire or destruction.

Ah, so you don't believe in the Bible. OK. Enough said.

 

[Kain99]

That is why I primarily use the phrase lake of fire or destruction.

Ah, so you don't believe in the Bible. OK. Enough said.

Go back to school new Christian.... You have completely missed the boat!

 

[2ndAmendment]

My education is not failing me. Nor, have I ever bashed anyone over the head with the Bible!

My goal here is to lead.... To Christ.

What was your goal again?

If you were half the Christian you proclaim to be, you would NEVER take the chance of leading one away.

Soak up my words 2A and pray again.

I have not tried to attack you personally in any way but you have done nothing but attack. That is OK. But as for you leading anyone to Christ, I have never seen you post much of anything except criticism of those that actually are trying to present scripture whether it is me, IS, Starman3000, or others.

Why should I soak you your words? That is rhetorical; I really have no interest in your answer. I pray often. I certainly will pray again.

 

[Kain99]

I have not tried to attack you personally in any way but you have done nothing but attack. That is OK. But as for you leading anyone to Christ, I have never seen you post much of anything except criticism of those that actually are trying to present scripture whether it is me, IS, Starman3000, or others.

Why should I soak you your words? That is rhetorical; I really have no interest in your answer. I pray often. I certainly will pray again.

Go back 2A... How many people have you seen recoil from your words?

Enough said.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You did not answer the questions. Do you believe in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? The flood of Noah? Job? The persecution of the Jews by Egypt? The wars where Israel was defeated and led into captivity?

The answers to those questions will reveal much.

It is correct that this is Old Testiment crud that 2A is unjustly trying to force into the New Testiment of Christ.

The Bible tells that Sodom and Gomorrah and the flood of Noah were done because the people there were terrible sinners and the places were destroyed out of pity (mercy killing) and not out of violent hatred as 2A is mis-representing it.

When the USA beat Hitler's Germany we can see that the USA was justified in the same way - but that justification is not given to God when Sodom & G and Noah's world were like Germany and probably far worse.

And in the New Testiment Jesus said those people would see better treatment on Judgement Day link HERE.

And the Old Testiment of Israel being persecuted in Egypt says God heard their cries and rescued His people, and God did the same under Nazi Germany but God saved then through the US lead allied invation of Germany and not by controlling Hitler in Hitler's atrocities.

 

[Kain99]

It is correct that this is Old Testiment crud that 2A is unjustly trying to force into the New Testiment of Christ.

The Bible tells that Sodom and Gomorrah and the flood of Noah were done because the people there were terrible sinners and the places were destroyed out of pity (mercy killing) and not out of violent hatred as 2A is mis-representing it.

When the USA beat Hitler's Germany we can see that the USA was justified in the same way - but that justification is not given to God when Sodom & G and Noah's world were like Germany and probably far worse.

And in the New Testiment Jesus said those people would see better treatment on Judgement Day link HERE.

And the Old Testiment of Israel being persecuted in Egypt says God heard their cries and rescued His people, and God did the same under Nazi Germany but God saved then through the US lead allied invation of Germany and not by controlling Hitler in Hitler's atrocities.

He's not listening JPC... Pray for his conviction.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Go back to school new Christian.... You have completely missed the boat!

It is attack 2A season again to see if you can get me angry. Nope.

The Bible is the word of God. God came as Jesus and we celebrate His birth today whether it happened on this date or not. God cames as Jesus to be the Savior of all mankind. He loves all His creation. We must repent of our sins and accept the gift of Salvation to have it.

Not everyone is saved. And no boat will help those thrown into the lake of fire. If you don't like it, it is not my problem.

Now I leave you to your tirades of meaningless rhetoric.

 

[Kain99]

It is attack 2A season again to see if you can get me angry. Nope.

The Bible is the word of God. God came as Jesus and we celebrate His birth today whether it happened on this date or not. God cames as Jesus to be the Savior of all mankind. He loves all His creation. We must repent of our sins and accept the gift of Salvation to have it.

Not everyone is saved. And no boat will help those thrown into the lake of fire. If you don't like it, it is not my problem.

Now I leave you to your tirades of meaningless rhetoric.

No Bubba... I don't want you angry. I want you to change up! Everyone who accepts Christ is saved. Everyone.

You are not the Savior.

 

[2ndAmendment]

No Bubba... I don't want you angry. I want you to change up! Everyone who accepts Christ is saved. Everyone.

You are not the Savior.

I am certainly not the Savior. There is but one and that One is Y'shua.

Have you read what JPC has posted? He does not say that everyone that accepts Jesus as Savior and Lord is saved. He says the EVERYONE, no matter what they do, whether they accept Jesus or not, is saved including satan.

Is that what you believe? It is what he believes.

 

[Kain99]

I am certainly not the Savior. There is but one and that One is Y'shua.

Have you read what JPC has posted? He does not say that everyone that accepts Jesus as Savior and Lord is saved. He says the EVERYONE, no matter what they do, whether they accept Jesus or not, is saved including satan.

Is that what you believe? It is what he believes.

JPC is a baby... Clay...

Our job, to hold him and carry him all the way to God.

Our job to Love him.

 

[2ndAmendment]

JPC is a baby... Clay...

Our job, to hold him and carry him all the way to God.

Our job to Love him.

I tried that. I have been trying that for about two years. I and others have witnessed to him and it was done in accordance with the way Jesus said it should be done.

Matthew 18:15-17

15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

I told him via PM that his belief was in error and showed him the passages where Jesus said not everyone is saved and where satan and those not in the Book of Life are thrown into the lake of fire.

Matthew 7:20-23

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

and the passage from Revelation I posted earlier.

He replied by PM and said that I was wrong and the Bible was not the truth.

He used to come to the church I attended. I showed the pastor some of JPC's posts. The pastor and I went to JPC in private and the pastor told him that his beliefs are wrong. JPC told the pastor he did not believe that and that the Bible was not right.

JPC continued to post the heresy of satan and everyone, no matter what, being saved. The pastor called JPC by name and told him from the alter during church service that he was teaching lies.

JPC continued to post the same heresy. The second pastor of the church called JPC by name and told him from the alter during church service that he was teaching lies.

Everything was done out of love trying to get JPC to change and quit preaching lies. Jesus prescribed the recourse. I am just following it refuting the lies JPC tells every time he tells them.

If he were to stop the lies and refute them himself, then he would be accepted with open arms.

 

[Kain99]

Reading you closely.

What harm do you see being done by JPC, saying God would do no harm.

I'm trying to catch up with you.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Reading you closely.

What harm do you see being done by JPC, saying God would do no harm.

I'm trying to catch up with you.

JPC posts that everyone, no matter who and no matter what you believe whether you repent and accept Jesus as Savior and Lord or not and satan are all saved. That is not true. It is not what the Bible says.

The harm is, like you have been posting, some non-believer or new Christian might actually believe what he posts and be led to sin without repentance or asking for forgiveness. The Nicolaitans were a group of "Christians" that taught that since Jesus had died for all, you could do anything you wanted because you would still go to heaven when you die. They actually encourage fornication and adultery and other sins because it didn't matter because they were already saved. Jesus said He hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans. JPC hasn't gone that far. Matter of fact he is very much against adultery, but he still persists in the lie that everyone, no matter what, goes to heaven.

All I and others have been trying to do is make sure people don't fall for the lie.

Yes, without a doubt God is a loving Father. But as a loving Father, He has posted the rules. Christians walk in faith and do not sin on purpose because we love God trying to follow the rules out of love for God. I and other have been trying to post the truth from the Bible as opposition to the lies posted by JPC. It is done out of love for others including non-believers and newbies. It would be terrible to not refute the lies and let someone believe them and lose their soul.

 

[Kain99]

JPC posts that everyone, no matter who and no matter what you believe whether you repent and accept Jesus as Savior and Lord or not and satan are all saved. That is not true. It is not what the Bible says.

The harm is, like you have been posting, some non-believer or new Christian might actually believe what he posts and be led to sin without repentance or asking for forgiveness. The Nicolaitans were a group of "Christians" that taught that since Jesus had died for all, you could do anything you wanted because you would still go to heaven when you die. They actually encourage fornication and adultery and other sins because it didn't matter because they were already saved. Jesus said He hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans.

All I and other have been trying to do is make sure people don't fall for the lie.

Yes, without a doubt God is a loving Father. But as a loving Father, He has posted the rules. Christians walk in faith and do not sin on purpose because we love God trying to follow the rules out of love for God. I and other have been trying to post the truth from the Bible as opposition to the lies posted by JPC. It is done out of love for others including non-believers and newbies. It would be terrible to not refute the lies and let someone believe them and lose their sole.

I see your heart 2A... I'm just thinking, a softer gentler approach is in order.

Without you knowing it... People see you as the bad guy. While that is not fair, the perception needs to be addressed.

How about laying it all on the line and saying, you know what? The only thing that matters is that Jesus loves you. He feels your pain and knows your heart. He cries when you cry and he loves when you love!

Curl up in his arms and sleep tonight. He misses you.

 

[Marie]

It is correct that this is Old Testiment crud that 2A is unjustly trying to force into the New Testiment of Christ.

The Bible tells that Sodom and Gomorrah and the flood of Noah were done because the people there were terrible sinners and the places were destroyed out of pity (mercy killing) and not out of violent hatred as 2A is mis-representing it.

<DIR>Gen 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
</DIR>
<DIR>Deu 5:28 "And the LORD heard your words, when you spoke to me. And the LORD said to me, 'I have heard the words of this people, which they have spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken.
Deu 5:29 Oh that they had such a mind as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their descendants forever!
</DIR>God purpously destroyed man kind at the flood and God does want to be feared!
My friend its been to long since you last read your Bible. I would strongly suggest taking a look at it with a fresh pair of eyes!

 

[Kain99]

<DIR>Gen 6:11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
</DIR>
<DIR>Deu 5:28 "And the LORD heard your words, when you spoke to me. And the LORD said to me, 'I have heard the words of this people, which they have spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken.
Deu 5:29 Oh that they had such a mind as this always, to fear me and to keep all my commandments, that it might go well with them and with their descendants forever!
</DIR>God purpously destroyed man kind at the flood and God does want to be feared!

Show me something in the New Testament and I'll be impressed.

 

[Kain99]

P.S. God does not need to be feared.

Friggin Humans!

 

[2ndAmendment]

I see your heart 2A... I'm just thinking, a softer gentler approach is in order.

Without you knowing it... People see you as the bad guy. While that is not fair, the perception needs to be addressed.

How about laying it all on the line and saying, you know what? The only thing that matters is that Jesus loves you. He feels your pain and knows your heart. He cries when you cry and he loves when you love!

Curl up in his arms and sleep tonight. He misses you.

That is a great message, but it not the entire message. Half the truth is not the truth. I know you know that.

I certainly do not want to drive anyone away. I also do not want to lull anyone into a false sense of security. The total Bible is the truth; it is all for our instruction.

Not everything Jesus said was nicey nice; brood of vipers, thieves, etc. What did Jesus do at the well? He told the woman that she had had five husbands and the man she was living with was not her husband. He said is like it is. That is all I want to do. Much of what Paul wrote is chastisement; there is encouragement, but the admonishment is there, too. Balance.

God is love. God loves all His creation including you (proverbial you). He wants you to love Him. He came as Jesus to die for your sins. Jesus rose from the dead as a promise of eternal life for you (proverbial you). Today is the day of Salvation. The choice is yours. There is an alternative. You won't like it. Isn't it better to love and be loved? God loves you. He wants you to love Him. He is reaching for you. All you have to do is take His hand. Repent. Accept. Love and be loved. Live your life like you love God. That is my message in as much as possible. I am giving what I have been given. That is what I am instructed to do.

 

[Marie]

Show me something in the New Testament and I'll be impressed.

<DIR>Luk 17:26 `And, as it came to pass in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of Man;
Luk 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were given in marriage, till the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the deluge came, and destroyed all;
Luk 17:28 in like manner also, as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luk 17:29 and on the day Lot went forth from Sodom, He rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed all.
Luk 17:30 `According to these things it shall be, in the day the Son of Man is revealed;
<DIR>Mat 24:37 and as the days of Noah--so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man;
Mat 24:38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man.
</DIR>

</DIR>

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, having been divinely warned concerning the things not yet seen, having feared, did prepare an ark to the salvation of his house, through which he did condemn the world, and of the righteousness according to faith he became heir.