Our resident Pagans

Hessian

Hessian

Well-Known Member
"Why does this even matter to you?"

Easy. A politician goes on public record, MANY times claiming to be a "Christian."

A Christian is known by their fruit.
Praising Abortion as "God's work" is equivalent to praising Baal for consuming newborns in the flames.
Golfing endlessly while the faithful have gathered for worship is the behavior of a pagan.
Saying the Call to prayer from the muezzin is the sweetest sound he ever heard...is sign of adherence to Islam,...not Christianity.
Being married & attending a church that preaches division, class hatred, and anti-government radicalism ...has nothing to do with Christ.
Misquoting, and pretending to claim things from scripture that does not exist indicates a lack of knowledge about content & context of scripture.

So....our Pagan-in-Chief continues to Lie to Christians, mock Christian values....and has fooled perhaps millions of shallow, disconnected "Christians" into believing he holds the same faith. Just another wolf in sheep's clothing.

That is why it matters to me.
 
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Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hessian said:
"Why does this even matter to you?"

Easy. A politician goes on public record, MANY times claiming to be a "Christian."

A Christian is known by their fruit.
Praising Abortion as "God's work" is equivalent to praising Baal for consuming newborns in the flames.
Golfing endlessly while the faithful have gathered for worship is the behavior of a pagan.
Saying the Call to prayer from the muezzin is the sweetest sound he ever heard...is sign of adherence to Islam,...not Christianity.
Being married & attending a church that preaches division, class hatred, and anti-government radicalism ...has nothing to do with Christ.
Misquoting, and pretending to claim things from scripture that does not exist indicates a lack of knowledge about content & context of scripture.

So....our Pagan-in-Chief continues to Lie to Christians, mock Christian values....and has fooled perhaps millions of shallow, disconnected "Christians" into believing he holds the same faith. Just another wolf in sheep's clothing.

That is why it matters to me.
Click to expand...

Ok, but, a lying, mocking politician isn't anything new in general, correct? He's just noteworthy because he became president, right? So, how did he get there? I've long argued that President Bush and his decisions, the results of his policy, are what handed the WH to Obama. I mean, Obama certainly thinks so. He ran against Dubbya, not Hillary, not McCain. He all but ignored them both. I really don't think that is arguable, meaning, Bush's policies, the results, are why Obama won so, presuming you agree, and presuming we agree that Bush was a good, honest Christian, we then do reduce the debate down to Bush's policies being the reason some lying, mocking politician whose only other qualifications were that, as his vice president put it, 'clean and articulate'.

How do you view, as a Christian, Med D, the TSA, DHS, Patriot Act, TARP and the losing of the wars? Do you think he did the right things, from a Christian view?
 
Hessian

Hessian

Well-Known Member
Larry Gude said:
Ok, but, a lying, mocking politician isn't anything new in general, correct? He's just noteworthy because he became president, right? So, how did he get there? I've long argued that President Bush and his decisions, the results of his policy, are what handed the WH to Obama. I mean, Obama certainly thinks so. He ran against Dubbya, not Hillary, not McCain. He all but ignored them both. I really don't think that is arguable, meaning, Bush's policies, the results, are why Obama won so, presuming you agree, and presuming we agree that Bush was a good, honest Christian, we then do reduce the debate down to Bush's policies being the reason some lying, mocking politician whose only other qualifications were that, as his vice president put it, 'clean and articulate'.

How do you view, as a Christian, Med D, the TSA, DHS, Patriot Act, TARP and the losing of the wars? Do you think he did the right things, from a Christian view?
Click to expand...

Larry,
The policies & agencies created were at the behest of congressmen,...written, committee approved & bears the approval of both houses. The presidential approval was not blithely created by a phone & a pen. Do these policies infringe on Liberties...absolutely. Do they connect directly to the character of George Bush? Uncertain if you can make that connection. Did GW Bush claim a Christian foundation,...then promote policies that directly contradict Biblical values? I can't claim any recollection of this. He came out against abortion but did not vigorously address a means to end it. Leftists would accuse him of hundreds of thousands of innocent killed in "His" wars. I'll let God rule from his throne if GWB is a mass murderer (compared to OT instructions,...he aligns with one who confronts a dangerous tyrant who threatens his neighbors & pledges destruction against the Jews)

GWB did claim Christian faith? Yes.
Did he mock scripture. No
Did he praise other religions on par with Christianity?...He certainly misjudged Islam,...characterizing it as peaceful,...um, NO.
Did he lose wars?,...Larry: which ones are you referring to? Did he order troops to their deaths needlessly? You may think so.
Did he have compassion on needy? Yes. (of all races)

My opinion: He was NOT hypocritical, approved laws that expanded bureaucracy (which would have horrified our founders),but are NOT directly contradicting scripture.
 
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Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hessian said:
Larry,
The policies & agencies created were at the behest of congressmen,...written, committee approved & bears the approval of both houses. The presidential approval was not blithely created by a phone & a pen. Do these policies infringe on Liberties...absolutely. Do they connect directly to the character of George Bush? Uncertain if you can make that connection. Did GW Bush claim a Christian foundation,...then promote policies that directly contradict Biblical values? I can't claim any recollection of this. He came out against abortion but did not vigorously address a means to end it. Leftists would accuse him of hundreds of thousands of innocent killed in "His" wars. I'll let God rule from his throne if GWB is a mass murderer (compared to OT instructions,...he aligns with one who confronts a dangerous tyrant who threatens his neighbors & pledges destruction against the Jews)

GWB did claim Christian faith? Yes.
Did he mock scripture. No
Did he praise other religions on par with Christianity?...He certainly misjudged Islam,...characterizing it as peaceful,...um, NO.
Did he lose wars?,...Larry: which ones are you referring to? Did he order troops to their deaths needlessly? You may think so.
Did he have no compassion on needy? Yes. (of all races)

My opinion: He was NOT hypocritical, approved laws that expanded bureaucracy (which would have horrified our founders),but are NOT directly contradicting scripture.
Click to expand...

Do I have compassion? Hell, yes. I think we need to WIN wars. Get it over with and impose our will. We couldn't talk Germany or Japan into democracy. So, we impose it and brought light to parts of the world. I THOUGHT we were going to do the same in the Middle East. If we're not going to win...I think there is something terrible in that especially when, for us, it's not a matter of luck or hope. It is a matter of will.

And you answered by question, that his leadership decisions were not the assault to your faith and sensibilities that Obama is. But, that leaves us stuck; in substance, their decisions are of a kind. Virtually identical really. Is it fair to say that what rubs you the wrong way then is not policy but, personal? I have no objections if that is so. My concern is results of policy and I claim no insight into whether Bush 43 made proper decisions in keeping with his faith. My problem is that they were not in keeping faith with his oath of office.

Thanks for your thoughts! I'd really like us to avoid another Bush and Obama, as I see it, going forward and, to that end, the more we all understand one another, the more we at least have some common ground. I can set aside faith in keeping with the founders intent of religious freedom so, my issues are purely constitutional. To me, the two are of a kind where it matters.
 
A

Amused_despair

New Member
Hessian said:
So....our Pagan-in-Chief continues to Lie to Christians, mock Christian values....
Click to expand...

But, do not all Americans mock Christian values with our devotion to capitalism and materialism? Do not all Americans mock Christian values with our desire for material wealth and valuing of material possessions instead of service to our fellow man? What would Jesus do if he came back and saw us Americans in all of our wealth while people in our own country are hungry and sick, not to mention the rest of the world? When we value our wealth more than we value following the teachings of Jesus do not all of us mock the values that Christ taught us? I will not hastily judge one when that judgement could easily be applied to myself.
 
Hessian

Hessian

Well-Known Member
Amused_despair said:
But, do not all Americans mock Christian values with our devotion to capitalism and materialism? Do not all Americans mock Christian values with our desire for material wealth and valuing of material possessions instead of service to our fellow man? What would Jesus do if he came back and saw us Americans in all of our wealth while people in our own country are hungry and sick, not to mention the rest of the world? When we value our wealth more than we value following the teachings of Jesus do not all of us mock the values that Christ taught us? I will not hastily judge one when that judgement could easily be applied to myself.
Click to expand...

Amused...are you throwing out some bait or do you honestly feel this way? You are obviously NOT an outsider throwing tangent anti-Christian accusations.

Christ tested the "rich young ruler" with the request to give away all his belongings. This "command" never became an orthodox practice of the church. The disciples were sent out in pairs to minister, but they were expected to return and report their results. When Paul & Barnabas went out,...they were sponsored by cells of believers who worked & collected tithes to support full time ministry. They attempted sharing all their possessions early in the book of Acts but that seems more like an answer to a refugee crisis. MUCH later it was lauded to take a vow of poverty but that solely applied to those in full Christian service.

SO...this brief overview supports the idea that full time Christian servants were expected to rely on the Lord's provision. All other Christians are expected to labor (as if under the Lord's supervision) and support the continued ministry of the church (missionaries, pastors, local needs).

Do we have Christian ministers living VERY comfortably,...relying on wealthy supporters in the church? Yes,...TOO MANY of them-of all races. Its disgraceful,...shaming the ministry.
But we also have many in Christian service who labor without regard to rewards...giving time & money faithfully.

Materialism HAS soaked into our church-undeniably,...but Christ's teaching certainly allows the workman to be worthy of their wages. BUT our true rewards are to be established in heaven,...where moth & rust do not destroy.
 
PsyOps

PsyOps

Pixelated
Hessian said:
"Why does this even matter to you?"

Easy. A politician goes on public record, MANY times claiming to be a "Christian."

A Christian is known by their fruit.
Praising Abortion as "God's work" is equivalent to praising Baal for consuming newborns in the flames.
Golfing endlessly while the faithful have gathered for worship is the behavior of a pagan.
Saying the Call to prayer from the muezzin is the sweetest sound he ever heard...is sign of adherence to Islam,...not Christianity.
Being married & attending a church that preaches division, class hatred, and anti-government radicalism ...has nothing to do with Christ.
Misquoting, and pretending to claim things from scripture that does not exist indicates a lack of knowledge about content & context of scripture.

So....our Pagan-in-Chief continues to Lie to Christians, mock Christian values....and has fooled perhaps millions of shallow, disconnected "Christians" into believing he holds the same faith. Just another wolf in sheep's clothing.

That is why it matters to me.
Click to expand...

Would you prefer he go to church every Sunday knowing full-well he is only doing it for appearances? Which lie do you prefer from this president? The people elected him TWICE and don’t care. Why blame Obama for these things? Blame voters.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
PsyOps said:
Would you prefer he go to church every Sunday knowing full-well he is only doing it for appearances? Which lie do you prefer from this president? The people elected him TWICE and don’t care. Why blame Obama for these things? Blame voters.
Click to expand...

Why blame voters? Christians didn't vote for him?
 
PrchJrkr

PrchJrkr

Long Haired Country Boy
Ad Free Experience
Patron
PsyOps said:
Would you prefer he go to church every Sunday knowing full-well he is only doing it for appearances?
Click to expand...

I only speak for myself, but I would feel a whole lot better about him if he did seek Christian Fellowship. You can't learn to swim standing on the shore.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
PrchJrkr said:
I only speak for myself, but I would feel a whole lot better about him if he did seek Christian Fellowship. You can't learn to swim standing on the shore.
Click to expand...

See and there is nothing wrong about that. it really should be a part of any presidents activities. Just like he /she would reach out to minority groups, unions, business groups, other nations.

Just be respectful of the faith.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Larry Gude said:
Not so? Many Christians did vote for him?
Click to expand...

I'll say many people who call themselves "Christians" did vote for him. However, I know lots of practicing Christians, that regularly attend Christian services, and believe, and live to the best of our abilities, what the Bible preaches, that did NOT vote for the obama either time. Here's a good piece and chart on how the "Christian" vote turned out:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/11/07/how-the-faithful-voted-2012-preliminary-exit-poll-analysis/

I and mine fall in the born again/evangelical column.
 
PsyOps

PsyOps

Pixelated
b23hqb said:
I'll say many people who call themselves "Christians" did vote for him. However, I know lots of practicing Christians, that regularly attend Christian services, and believe, and live to the best of our abilities, what the Bible preaches, that did NOT vote for the obama either time. Here's a good piece and chart on how the "Christian" vote turned out:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/11/07/how-the-faithful-voted-2012-preliminary-exit-poll-analysis/

I and mine fall in the born again/evangelical column.
Click to expand...

This discussion is really moot... This all hinges on who we believe is really Christian and who isn't. You can only go on what people say they are.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
PsyOps said:
You do realize the black community is by-and-large Christian? Hispanics?
Click to expand...

And the black 'community' is, what, 9% of the active electorate? 12% of the population? Barack Obama does not get elected because of Christians. Not even close. And that was the point.
 
PsyOps

PsyOps

Pixelated
Larry Gude said:
And the black 'community' is, what, 9% of the active electorate? 12% of the population? Barack Obama does not get elected because of Christians. Not even close. And that was the point.
Click to expand...

You asked if many Christians did vote for Obama and I stipulated that they did. :shrug:

FWIW:

Forty million Christians voted for Obama

It turns out Obama attracted about 40 million votes from Americans who are Protestant or Catholic. That’s one third of the nearly 120 million Americans who voted in the 2012 presidential race.
Click to expand...

Evangelicals put Obama over the top

Pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage Barack Obama lost among white evangelical Protestants and white Catholics. Nevertheless, more than 21 percent of the self-described “evangelicals” voted to re-elect this president, and that was enough to put Obama comfortably over the top.
Click to expand...
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Larry Gude said:
The question was whether or not Christians put him in office, ie, were the deciding factor and, clearly, they were not.
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Gotta agree with you there. Blacks make up about 14.2% of the population (about 45 million), probably about 10-11% of the voting public. Throw in the 90% of black christians that voted for obama against their religious teachings, and strictly on color, and the 20% of so called born again evangelicals (I know a few in our group, elderly, and have always voted (D) just because their parents did, but they won't admit it), and the around 50% of Catholics, they didn't necessarily put him over the top, but it was enough to edge out Romney.

Obama carried considerably less "christian" votes in 2012, but it was still enough to outpoll Romney

People have to learn that their votes do count, and christians have to understand they either believe what they say they are, or they don't.
 
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