Plane Crash into Potomac

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
Just sharing knowledge. Spent a number of years with NORAD and we regularly trained for events like that (including monthly written tests to maintain qualifications).
I get it, and you are correct. I was just firing off a post, and I have no real knowledge of it, just commenting on what I heard at that moment. It's very disconcerting.


Yep, heard that too. Also heard it was also a NVG (night vision goggles) training mission too. And that is somewhat concerning, at least to me, as NVG reduces one's peripheral vision significantly (something on the order of 140 degrees down to 40 degrees). And given that the H-60 crew only had three members onboard their ability to maintain situational awareness was diminished.

You would be surprised/shocked at the magnitude of "near misses" that occur on a daily basis. And going by what is being said that the ATC controller was performing double duty (approach control and helicopter ops) it makes the issue more dangerous.
I don't disagree with any of your points, at all! I understand that there are lots of things we don't actually ever get to know. (nor should we or would we want to know!)

My father was in the US Navy, and retired as an ADR1. Airplane Mech - so when he flew commercial (rarely!) he knew and observed things no one else knew or even had an inkling of. He could even HEAR things that would put him on alert. :lol: Don't ask me to quote or list them, because my eyes glaze over with details like that, even though I heard them for the first 50 years of my life! *

*ADR = reciprocating engines - my dad worked on prop engines, not jet engines.
My brother, my Ex and my ex-BIL were all AD's on Jet engines. Brother and Ex were exclusively on Power Plants on the F14 Tomcats. (and various models / years whatever you call them!)
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
My father was in the US Navy, and retired as an ADR1. Airplane Mech - so when he flew commercial (rarely!) he knew and observed things no one else knew or even had an inkling of. He could even HEAR things that would put him on alert. :lol: Don't ask me to quote or list them, because my eyes glaze over with details like that, even though I heard them for the first 50 years of my life! *

*ADR = reciprocating engines - my dad worked on prop engines, not jet engines.
Small world, my Dad retired as an ADR-1.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I know I am wholly unqualified to speak on such things but if there is a training mission using night vision equipment that shut down the peripheral vision to 40 degrees wouldn't it make sense if the instructor pilot did not wear the night vision equipment so that one of them could see?
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
Small world, my Dad retired as an ADR-1.
And I am quite sure you could talk about things that I would understand - but would have no way of recalling on my own!! :killingme:

Mostly, our family gatherings were filled with a LOT of aviation :blahblah:

Not that I didn't find it interesting, for conversational purposes, because I did. I just never had the desire to learn mechanical stuff on any level above basic knowledge.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

CNN Pundit DELETES Post BLAMING TRUMP For DC Plane Crash As Trump EXPOSES BOMBSHELL FAA Lawsuit!​


 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
✈️ Information promptly provided by Trump officials (information that we’d have never gotten from Biden’s FAA) shows, so far, multiple points of potential failure.

image 4.png

For an as-yet unknown reason, the helicopter flew outside its approved flight path along the Potomac, twice as high as it should have, and hundreds of yards from its assigned path, far too close to the runways. The American Airlines pilots, adjusting to a last-minute re-route onto a super-short runway, were laser-focused on landing as they made the final, fatal turn toward the runway, and probably never even saw the blacked-out helicopter closing into their flight path.

The tower was the locus of lamentable tragedy. A harried air traffic controller, juggling two jobs at the same time, noticed the looming disaster — but inexplicably failed to direct the helicopter and the plane to separate, offering instead something sounding more like an unhurried suggestion. The controller was handling both helicopters and planes —normally separate jobs— because their supervisor unaccountably let another controller go home early.

The F.A.A.’s preliminary report found tower staffing was “not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic.” Presumably, the FAA meant the tower was understaffed, since who would complain about overstaffing?

In the background of these instantaneous errors lies a fractured FAA having a slow-motion existential crisis. A class-action lawsuit continues grinding away in discovery, exposing the agency’s tragic 2014 decision to scrap merit-based testing when hiring air traffic controllers. Instead the FAA relied on a “biographical statement” that scored, you guessed it, totally irrelevant factors like skin color and ethnic background.

Reams of headlines over the last couple years have reported growing numbers of close calls at airports and an expanding crisis over staffing levels — a manpower crisis that festered even while the agency essentially refused to hire better-qualified white applicants, holding those jobs open for less-qualified minority applicants.

As bad as that sounds, it gets worse. The FAA’s critical staffing issues started —I am not making this up— with its mass layoffs in 2021 of controllers who refused to take the jabs. The agency has never recovered from that horrible mistake. It remains currently 3,000 controllers under normal staffing levels.

Thus, it is unsurprising that in its last survey in 2023, Pete Buttigieg’s DOT reported that 77% of critical air traffic control facilities were understaffed. The truth is probably closer to all of them.

In the same year, the New York Times reported that near-misses on airport runways (“incursions”) had climbed to an all-time high, and that overworked, burnt-out air traffic controllers were falling asleep on the job and getting drunk at work. To put a number on it, the FAA self-reported 1,750 runway incursions for each of the past three years. By comparison, in 2014, the year the FAA changed its testing standards, the agency reported only 1,278 incursions.

Finally, I am aware of widespread rumors on X that one of the three military pilots was a transgender ‘woman’ (biological male), and was possibly suicidal. Since I cannot confirm that rumor, I won’t further develop it, not until the DOD releases the crew’s names. If the rumor is true, then Trump knows it and the media doesn’t. Their ridiculous fact-checking might blow up in their faces.



 

herb749

Well-Known Member
✈️ Information promptly provided by Trump officials (information that we’d have never gotten from Biden’s FAA) shows, so far, multiple points of potential failure.

image 4.png
For an as-yet unknown reason, the helicopter flew outside its approved flight path along the Potomac, twice as high as it should have, and hundreds of yards from its assigned path, far too close to the runways. The American Airlines pilots, adjusting to a last-minute re-route onto a super-short runway, were laser-focused on landing as they made the final, fatal turn toward the runway, and probably never even saw the blacked-out helicopter closing into their flight path.

The tower was the locus of lamentable tragedy. A harried air traffic controller, juggling two jobs at the same time, noticed the looming disaster — but inexplicably failed to direct the helicopter and the plane to separate, offering instead something sounding more like an unhurried suggestion. The controller was handling both helicopters and planes —normally separate jobs— because their supervisor unaccountably let another controller go home early.

The F.A.A.’s preliminary report found tower staffing was “not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic.” Presumably, the FAA meant the tower was understaffed, since who would complain about overstaffing?

In the background of these instantaneous errors lies a fractured FAA having a slow-motion existential crisis. A class-action lawsuit continues grinding away in discovery, exposing the agency’s tragic 2014 decision to scrap merit-based testing when hiring air traffic controllers. Instead the FAA relied on a “biographical statement” that scored, you guessed it, totally irrelevant factors like skin color and ethnic background.

Reams of headlines over the last couple years have reported growing numbers of close calls at airports and an expanding crisis over staffing levels — a manpower crisis that festered even while the agency essentially refused to hire better-qualified white applicants, holding those jobs open for less-qualified minority applicants.

As bad as that sounds, it gets worse. The FAA’s critical staffing issues started —I am not making this up— with its mass layoffs in 2021 of controllers who refused to take the jabs. The agency has never recovered from that horrible mistake. It remains currently 3,000 controllers under normal staffing levels.

Thus, it is unsurprising that in its last survey in 2023, Pete Buttigieg’s DOT reported that 77% of critical air traffic control facilities were understaffed. The truth is probably closer to all of them.

In the same year, the New York Times reported that near-misses on airport runways (“incursions”) had climbed to an all-time high, and that overworked, burnt-out air traffic controllers were falling asleep on the job and getting drunk at work. To put a number on it, the FAA self-reported 1,750 runway incursions for each of the past three years. By comparison, in 2014, the year the FAA changed its testing standards, the agency reported only 1,278 incursions.

Finally, I am aware of widespread rumors on X that one of the three military pilots was a transgender ‘woman’ (biological male), and was possibly suicidal. Since I cannot confirm that rumor, I won’t further develop it, not until the DOD releases the crew’s names. If the rumor is true, then Trump knows it and the media doesn’t. Their ridiculous fact-checking might blow up in their faces.





It was Obama BS.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
One of the Blackhawk crew members was from Great Mills - that might have been reported elswhere on the forums, I didn't search. :lol:

One crewmember's family does not wish their name to be released (at this time, it said)

I wonder why? I DO understand not wanting to have the entire world and media possibly descend on their lives right now. BUT, our taxes do pay military members, and we have a right to this information and any circumstances pertaining to it. 🤷
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
One of the Blackhawk crew members was from Great Mills - that might have been reported elswhere on the forums, I didn't search. :lol:

One crewmember's family does not wish their name to be released (at this time, it said)

I wonder why? I DO understand not wanting to have the entire world and media possibly descend on their lives right now. BUT, our taxes do pay military members, and we have a right to this information and any circumstances pertaining to it. 🤷
The woman pilot then. One of the pilots was identified was CWO2 Andrew Eaves. The crew chief was already identified as Ryan O'Hara from Georgia.
 
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