Price of Gasoline.

dck4shrt

New Member
Bruzilla said:
You're exactly right, and that plan is great for OPEC but sucks for US consumers. That wouldn't be such a big deal except for the fact that in pretty much every other market segment in America it is the consumer that drives prices, not the producer. Even Coca-Cola, the most consumed manufactured beverage on the planet, has to routinely put its products on sale to revive consumer interest. So, if we won't tolerate this from soda, shoe, clothes, or bread makers, why should we tolerate it from foreign oil producers, escpecially when we have the means to compete with them domestically?

I think that rather than waiting for some eggheads to finally come up with cheap-affordable-clean ways to drive cars on water or coal-derived gasoline, our government's best move is to give OPEC the equivalent of Americans telling Coke that we're switching to Pepsi en masse by saying we're going to start drilling for oil the same way that you guys do, i.e., anywhere we want, and you can sit on your oil for 40-50 years and go broke while you wait for the Chinese demand to get even remotely close to the current US demand. And if you want us back buying your oil and filling your pcokets again, you'll need to get oil back to a price point where it's no longer profitable to drill in the US... say $37/barrel.

The problem is our economy can't run on Coca-Cola.

Drilling at home isn't going to solve much of the problem. If we have a crude oil based economy it'll have to be imported. I again, repeat the arguments that oil is a globally demanded product, and we can't insulate ourselves from those market forces while still doing things like buying cheap products from China, etc, etc.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Bruz...

This is where I can see your government run oil company or some variation come into play;

You're exactly right, and that plan is great for OPEC but sucks for US consumers. That wouldn't be such a big deal except for the fact that in pretty much every other marker segment in America it is the consumer that drives prices, not the producer.

...for precisely the reason you and Dick ascribe;the ability of foreign entities to take advantage of supply and demand functions to their benefit and our detriment. That would seem to me to be the definition of a national interest.

I have a tough time, however, seeing how your solution would come about;

saying we're going to start drilling for oil the same way that you guys do, i.e., anywhere we want,

But, on the other hand, I also see a tough row to hoe for the 'eggheads' to come up with good alternatives absent market forces which, while in place now with high oil, would, exactly as you and Dick ascribe, be manipulated by our international competitors and suppliers the moment they felt the pinch from us going another direction.

It's simple to see alternatives come on line once oil is truly running low. It's not so easy for me to see absent the realities of supply and demand relations.

So, a national highway system type plan for energy? Companies sprung up to build roads that the market didn't want simply because a customer, the feds, were willing to pay for it anyway.

Thus, what if we used a federal promise of buying 'egghead' fuel in a ramped up fashion over, say 10 years, culminating in a volume actually equal to real consumption, at a set price, in annually adjusted dollars, of, say $2.00 a gallon to be delivered to stations by private enterprise, pumped to you and I at stations owned by private enterprise who get a dollar a gallon to provide the service and we get it...for free (seeings how we already paid for it in taxes).

We each apply for gallon per year allotments of some form.

Oil will get cheaper as this happens, obviously, but we will reach the next level of energy type without the volatile, panicked rush that actual oil depletion will cause.

Call it enforced energy policy.

It makes my skin crawl thinking about it but we must consider the implications of removing the market from our fundamental needs, such as gasoline. This is anathema to me BUT I am very interested in energy stability and independence.
 
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dems4me

Guest
I have a question, and quite honestly, I've been really busy at work and havn't been able to follow this much (the forum take on it all) but my question is... if its a supply and demand problem... then what about other countries? Wouldn't they be going through the same crap we are going through :shrug: How come we haven't seen any news footage of them protesting, etc... :confused: I know they already pay much more than we do for gas and oil but wouldn't theirs be just as drastically going up as the price per barrel of oil goes up? Where's thei outrage - is this a global outrage?
 

dck4shrt

New Member
dems4me said:
I have a question, and quite honestly, I've been really busy at work and havn't been able to follow this much (the forum take on it all) but my question is... if its a supply and demand problem... then what about other countries? Wouldn't they be going through the same crap we are going through :shrug: How come we haven't seen any news footage of them protesting, etc... :confused: I know they already pay much more than we do for gas and oil but wouldn't theirs be just as drastically going up as the price per barrel of oil goes up? Where's thei outrage - is this a global outrage?

They are complaining about it in Europe. But their economies aren't as linked to crude as ours is. They take mass transit and they drive fuel efficient cars...Sure they use oil, but not like us.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
I was just watching a rerun of The Daily Show on Comedy Central, and Stewart had a "oil expert" from the WSJ on. She was voicing the arguments you always hear from oil companies, but one thing she said really caught my interest. She was talking about how these recent price hikes were just a result of supply and demand issues, and Stewart said that it wasn't like over the past month we all got together and said "we want more oil", and she said that demand was up because "we are in the vacation season and people are driving more on their vacations." Remember back in the 1980s when we would see a spike of gasoline prices over the 4th of July weekend because that's when everyone was driving? Then we were told to expect spikes during June and July because that's when eveyone's driving. Then it became June, July, and August that we should come to expect these hikes. Now it's only friggin April and last month was March, and the oil pundits are saying that demand is up because the vacation season now stretches from March to August???? When's the :bs: flag going to get tossed on this argument? When we're supposedly all taking vacations year round? Granted there are some people taking vacations now, but enough to effect gas prices nationwide? Get real!
 
J

JPC, Sr.

Guest
Faith Without Works is Dead.

Toxick said:
Apparently your version of "correct" also differs from the conventional usage.

Your usage of the word 'codependent' to mean what you think it means, only works by the most extreme stretch of of a deluded imagination.

But it's ok. I now call cats, dogs; I call flapjacks, bagels; and I call computers, books.

Further bullets as evictions warmest.
:wench: What I am really trying to tell you is the the concept and treatment of codependency is a very powerful tool and it is perhaps the greatest advancement in psychology ever.

:yay: Virtually all the greatest people in the field of psychology have written books about their own findings so all one has to do is read the info available to learn from the experts. I highly reccommend it too.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
dems4me said:
I have a question, and quite honestly, I've been really busy at work and havn't been able to follow this much (the forum take on it all) but my question is... if its a supply and demand problem... then what about other countries? Wouldn't they be going through the same crap we are going through :shrug: How come we haven't seen any news footage of them protesting, etc... :confused: I know they already pay much more than we do for gas and oil but wouldn't theirs be just as drastically going up as the price per barrel of oil goes up? Where's thei outrage - is this a global outrage?

You bring up a good point in referencing foreign countries. They pay the equivalent of $5-$6 bucks or so a gallon in Japan, Korea, and most of Europe. On the plus side, for the most part they drive the most fuel efficient cars on Earth, so changes in the price of a liter of gas don't have the impact that they do on us. What's interesting here is that while this fact says a lot for conservation efforts, it also shows that vehicle fuel efficiency does not drive prices down, for if it did these countries would have the lowest gas prices rather than the highest, even with all the taxes put on them. As for why they're not up in arms, I would guess that it's because they are not as reliant on gasoline as we are, but that's just a guess.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
dck4shrt said:
Falling crude prices have nothing to do with Bush. The market goes up and down. [\QUOTE]

So... we've had demand going up for the past month (although not much), and we've had the leader of Iran spouting his most antagonistic rubbish the past two weeks, and yet oil prices.... after weeks of increases... drop after Bush gets public on oil prices and starts talking about taking action. Was that a mere coincidence? Did Iran appologize for threatening the Jews and no one in the media heard about it? What else happened this week that would have reversed months of increases?
 

dck4shrt

New Member
Bruzilla said:
You bring up a good point in referencing foreign countries. They pay the equivalent of $5-$6 bucks or so a gallon in Japan, Korea, and most of Europe. On the plus side, for the most part they drive the most fuel efficient cars on Earth, so changes in the price of a liter of gas don't have the impact that they do on us. What's interesting here is that while this fact says a lot for conservation efforts, it also shows that vehicle fuel efficiency does not drive prices down, for if it did these countries would have the lowest gas prices rather than the highest, even with all the taxes put on them. As for why they're not up in arms, I would guess that it's because they are not as reliant on gasoline as we are, but that's just a guess.

Just because they drive fuel efficient vehicles it's not going to drive prices down for them. The market for oil in Japan is the same as it is here (less the difference in taxes, refining differences, transportation differences, etc). A whole lot of us around the world who don't current conserve, will actually have to conserve to make a difference. The mentalities of those in Europe and developed part of Asia are to conserve energy. These concepts are built into the consumption models going forward. The big variables in the model are our (US's) ability to conserve, Asia's rising demand, and of course supply issues.
 

dck4shrt

New Member
Bruzilla said:
dck4shrt said:
Falling crude prices have nothing to do with Bush. The market goes up and down. [\QUOTE]

So... we've had demand going up for the past month (although not much), and we've had the leader of Iran spouting his most antagonistic rubbish the past two weeks, and yet oil prices.... after weeks of increases... drop after Bush gets public on oil prices and starts talking about taking action. Was that a mere coincidence? Did Iran appologize for threatening the Jews and no one in the media heard about it? What else happened this week that would have reversed months of increases?

There weren't any attacks on any Nigerian oil platforms this week, and they've been able to bring some of their oh-so-sweet crude back on line.
 
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aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
Just use less gas.
I want to see you all commuting on motorcycles and scooters next week.
a 250cc scooter with an automatic transmission and will probably get about 60mpg and run at highway speeds.
We have a lady in our riding club that has a 400cc Suzuki Burgman scooter, no problem running at 80-90 mph and gets great milage when driven a little more consertavitly.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I don't sell gas but...

Bruzilla said:
that demand is up because the vacation season now stretches from March to August???? When's the :bs: flag going to get tossed on this argument? When we're supposedly all taking vacations year round? Granted there are some people taking vacations now, but enough to effect gas prices nationwide? Get real!


...I would think that as the weather warms, starting in Arpil, people are natrually going out more in the evenings after work instead of staying home during the cold and the same for weekends. What percent increase is this? No clue.

If I was the oil rep I'd say 'Well, John, it's the warm weather season and people naturally go out more after work and on the weekends and..."

Then, in the winter, I'd say "Well, John, people eat more ice cream in February than any other month of the year and, of course, that ice cream isn't going to drive itself to your house, chuckle, chuckle..."
 

LexiGirl75

100% Goapele Head!
aps45819 said:
I get over 50mpg highway on my bike

I heard a guy on the news this morning said he filled up for about $5.00 and that it would last him 10 days. As fast as bikes go I would think they would burn gas faster.

I'm scared to ride a motorcycle but I have considered it but I have too many bags and like to stop off grocery shopping sometimes. Plus I am scared.

Right now I am paying about $360 a month and heard through the gv that by the summer prices could be near $5 a gallon. I really can't afford to pay close to $800 a month to go to work. Motorcycles are looking better and better to me though. Did I mention I was scared to ride one. :bawl:
 

dck4shrt

New Member
What about this brilliant new idea of giving everyone $100. What a novel idea! We burn millions of barrels of gas and can't conserve, so lets give everyone money so that they can burn more! All in exchange for opening up ANWR...

What happens if times get really tough?
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
Larry Gude said:
...I would think that as the weather warms, starting in Arpil, people are natrually going out more in the evenings after work instead of staying home during the cold and the same for weekends. What percent increase is this? No clue.
Shouldn't that be "As the weather warms and everyone turns off their oil furnace, petroleum prices drop."
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
Larry Gude said:
...I would think that as the weather warms, starting in Arpil, people are natrually going out more in the evenings after work instead of staying home during the cold and the same for weekends. What percent increase is this? No clue.

If I was the oil rep I'd say 'Well, John, it's the warm weather season and people naturally go out more after work and on the weekends and..."

Then, in the winter, I'd say "Well, John, people eat more ice cream in February than any other month of the year and, of course, that ice cream isn't going to drive itself to your house, chuckle, chuckle..."

Yeah... and I guess that people getting out in the warmer weather is a phenomenom that just started happening over the past couple of years. :lmao: I can't wait to hear them say that demand is peaking in February now because that's the most boring month and people have recently decided to take long road trips.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
dck4shrt said:
What about this brilliant new idea of giving everyone $100. What a novel idea! We burn millions of barrels of gas and can't conserve, so lets give everyone money so that they can burn more! All in exchange for opening up ANWR...

What happens if times get really tough?

I agree that the $100 deal is lunacy, but can you name me one country where conservation has resulted in lower gas prices? I've been to most of the World's countries on behalf of our Navy and I haven't seen one yet.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Bruzilla said:
I agree that the $100 deal is lunacy, but can you name me one country where conservation has resulted in lower gas prices? I've been to most of the World's countries on behalf of our Navy and I haven't seen one yet.
I would think that the reason a country's fuel conservation efforts doesn't have an effect on their gas prices is due to the fact that oil is a global commodity. Therefore, it takes a global reduction in usage to result in price reductions. :shrug:
 
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