Price of Gasoline.

[MMDad]

Years ago I use to drive big trucks and tractor trailer too, and one of the first things I was tought from my coworker that first trained me was that if the truck is very heavy loaded and the light changes red while the truck is moving too close to stop safely then lay on the horn and flash the head lights and it is better to then drive through the red light and piss off the other drivers and maybe get a tickit rather then dragging the brakes and loosing control of the truck and or the load.

Therefore, in some cases a person must think independently of the rules and the laws and do what is right and deemed safest at any given time and not just accept the dictionary definition that a red light means one has got to stop.

When you self educated yourself in english, did you give yourself a B+?

 

[Dutch6]

Years ago I use to drive big trucks and tractor trailer too, and one of the first things I was tought from my coworker that first trained me was that if the truck is very heavy loaded and the light changes red while the truck is moving too close to stop safely then lay on the horn and flash the head lights and it is better to then drive through the red light and piss off the other drivers and maybe get a tickit rather then dragging the brakes and loosing control of the truck and or the load.

Therefore, in some cases a person must think independently of the rules and the laws and do what is right and deemed safest at any given time and not just accept the dictionary definition that a red light means one has got to stop.

Tractor trailer drivers are professionals and professionals do not put themselves in a situation where they “MUST” run a red light. If you did this you had no business driving in the first place.

 

[Ken King]

When you self educated yourself in english, did you give yourself a B+?

The state bought him books, said he could school himself, and what does he do, he eats the teacher.

 

[JPC, Sr.]

Faith Without Works is Dead.

anyone ever tell you that you look like the guy from slingblade :shrug:

Yes, actually "slingblade" became one of my many nicknames because it was thought that I looked like him.

I have never seen the movie and once I saw a picture of the character and I just figure that many of us from Irish roots look some what alike.

 

[dck4shrt]

...about energy; what off coal to gas conversion? Know anything about the downside?

I think the conversion plants are pretty expensive to build. And I think that scaling up from plants that have been 'tinkered with' to really big industrial sized plants might come with a few potential hiccups.

Onshore oil production is pretty cheap, something like $5 per barrel. I think the coal->gas and oil sands->gas scenarios are both upwards of $20-$30 right now, as they require significant energy inputs to extract or process. So you lose a lot of potential profit to whoever is going to be building/running/owning these conversion plants.

From an environmental perspective, I think most of the impurities are taken out before emitting into the atmosphere/water.

The major player in this arena is a South African company called Sasol (NYSE symbol: SSL).

 

[Bruzilla]

If we wanted to protect ourselves from global oil prices, the government would have to take over the oil industry and set prices. This would all be under the assumption that we actually had enough oil under our own feet to sustain ourselves for some amount of time, which we don't.

Now you're thinking!!! I agree 100%! If it works for water and electric, it'll work for gasoline.

 

[dck4shrt]

And along with the expensive conversion plants you have the same issues with refineries and the "Not in my backyard syndrome".

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes...

Now you're thinking!!! I agree 100%! If it works for water and electric, it'll work for gasoline.

...because we've had SO much trouble with stability and pricing importing water and electricity...until the feds took over and made it all better...

 

[dck4shrt]

Now you're thinking!!! I agree 100%! If it works for water and electric, it'll work for gasoline.

This would all be under the assumption that we actually had enough oil under our own feet to sustain ourselves for some amount of time, which we don't.

 

[JPC, Sr.]

Faith Without Works is Dead.

Tractor trailer drivers are professionals and professionals do not put themselves in a situation where they “MUST” run a red light. If you did this you had no business driving in the first place.

Actually it is the red light that puts all drivers in the situation of having orders to stop. The situation could happen to any driver in a car or truck or bus or bike or etc. It adds to the slogan of being "dead right" in that one might be right that the red light means stop but if the situation calls for it as I explained in the truck post then it is better to survive or avoid an accident then to follow the orders of a stop light, in some cases only.

 

[SmallTown]

GREENVILLE, S.C. -- An Upstate gas station has sued, saying that a competitor's lower per gallon prices at the pump have caused them to lose profits.

Pantry Inc. owns a gas station in Gaffney. It sued in Cherokee County, alleging that Petro Express had kept prices at two of its Gaffney stations below cost.

Pantry's suit said its competitor violated South Carolina's Unfair Trade Practices Act. Under the law, motor fuel companies cannot sell below cost with intent or effect of impairing competition.

Pantry said it has lost $165,000 and is seeking three times the amount it lost

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

I think the conversion plants are pretty expensive to build. And I think that scaling up from plants that have been 'tinkered with' to really big industrial sized plants might come with a few potential hiccups.

Onshore oil production is pretty cheap, something like $5 per barrel. I think the coal->gas and oil sands->gas scenarios are both upwards of $20-$30 right now, as they require significant energy inputs to extract or process. So you lose a lot of potential profit to whoever is going to be building/running/owning these conversion plants.

From an environmental perspective, I think most of the impurities are taken out before emitting into the atmosphere/water.

The major player in this arena is a South African company called Sasol (NYSE symbol: SSL).

...but with oil looking to stick around $60 a barrel or more and using 20,000,000 barrels a day you're looking at some $70 billion dollars A YEAR that could be used to cover the start up costs if coal earns an extra $10 a barrel over oil and all I can find is that coal to gas is equal to $30 a barrel oil.

It looks to me like the money, the supply and the technology are all in place to ELIMINATE improrting foreign oil.

People get all upset about speculators, hell, just START getting coal on line and, in a year or two, oil is going to be under $30, easy, and THAT is where I see the problem; as the market forces kick in, coal could suddenly become, as it was not too long ago, to not competitve.

 

[Larry Gude]

Radio Jock Glen Beck had an interesting idea yesterday...

...gas stations that list their sales price on one side of the sign and right next to it, the tax per gallon.

Gas: $2.25 plus tax .75

That'll shut them in DC right up about blaming the whole damn thing on corporations.

 

[MMDad]

...gas stations that list their sales price on one side of the sign and right next to it, the tax per gallon.

Gas: $2.25 plus tax .75

That'll shut them in DC right up about blaming the whole damn thing on corporations.

This is allowed under Maryland law:

(c) Size of price and tax listings.-

(1) A sign or other means on the premises and approaches to a retail outlet that advertises the retail price of motor fuel:
(i) may list the price and each tax separately if the listing of the total of the price and all taxes is the same size as the separate listing of the price; but
(ii) shall list the total of the price and all taxes by numerals of uniform size.

but it would mean doubling the size of the signs because the total must still be shown. Try to get that through zoning.

 

[dck4shrt]

...but with oil looking to stick around $60 a barrel or more and using 20,000,000 barrels a day you're looking at some $70 billion dollars A YEAR that could be used to cover the start up costs if coal earns an extra $10 a barrel over oil and all I can find is that coal to gas is equal to $30 a barrel oil.

It looks to me like the money, the supply and the technology are all in place to ELIMINATE improrting foreign oil.

People get all upset about speculators, hell, just START getting coal on line and, in a year or two, oil is going to be under $30, easy, and THAT is where I see the problem; as the market forces kick in, coal could suddenly become, as it was not too long ago, to not competitve.

At some price point it becomes very worthwhile. At some point later on, oil prices could fall, as demand drops, and the cost of coal->gas will become too expensive again. This is all part of the risk/reward that has to be figured when trying to build coal conversion plants at 3 billion dollars a pop. The market will find the equilibrium point. Sasol already makes coal->gas, other companies turn all kinds of stuff into petroleum products, including cow crap...it's all part of the total 'petroleum' output in terms of supply vs. demand at the end of the day.

Right now, at $70, oil out of the ground has about 2x as much profit potential than coal->gas.

 

[Larry Gude]

How about...

This is allowed under Maryland law:

but it would mean doubling the size of the signs because the total must still be shown. Try to get that through zoning.

...smaller numbers?

 

[kom526]

Yeah, he can help, but he doesn't set or control the price. The one thing that he has just done is suspend the EPA rule for the switch to the cleaner burning fuels. This is what the oil companies have wanted and they delayed long enough to make it look like the only quick fix solution.

Nice little quote from Lock Wills, chairman of SMO regarding the addition of ethanol,"This fuel is an act of congress, they caved in to the farm lobby and agri business." Sounds to me like he is pizzed because congress didn't cave to big oil for once. In the end big oil did get what they wanted, a suspension of the requirement for ethanol blended fuel.

 

[Larry Gude]

Time out...

at 3 billion dollars a pop.

Right now, at $70, oil out of the ground has about 2x as much profit potential than coal->gas.

#1. $3 bill is less than a 10% tax on Exxons earnings last year. There's gotta be a school of thought within the company that sasy 'now is the time to start getting in position to take advantege..."

And...

#2. $70 a barrel is the price Exxon may be getting but their cost, unless it's their hole in the ground is far higher, right? They only netted 10% remember.

Also, with coal > gas breaking even at $30 a barrel, comparable, then the profit potential for coal >gas is clearly higher, yes? I mean. no one is gonna care if gas made from coal settles in at $2.50-$3.00 a gallon at the pump IF IT STAYS there due the the predictability and stability of a domestic supply.

 

[Larry Gude]

Read this...

Nice little quote from Lock Wills, chairman of SMO regarding the addition of ethanol,"This fuel is an act of congress, they caved in to the farm lobby and agri business." Sounds to me like he is pizzed because congress didn't cave to big oil for once. In the end big oil did get what they wanted, a suspension of the requirement for ethanol blended fuel.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060425-113101-6960r_page2.htm


Bashing big oil
"Few things are less becoming in a political party than desperation, as Republicans are now demonstrating as they panic over rising oil and gas prices. If blaming private industry for Congress' own energy mistakes is the best the GOP can do, no wonder its voters may sit out the November election," the Wall Street Journal says in an editorial.
"Oil prices hit $75 a barrel last week, while gas has reached a national average of about $2.85 a gallon. The Republican response has been to put on Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi fright wigs and shout about corporate greed and market manipulation. House Speaker Denny Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist fired off a letter to President Bush [Monday] demanding the Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department investigate 'price fixing' and 'gouging.' Sen. Arlen Specter wants to go further and impose stricter 'antitrust' laws for oil companies, as well as a 'windfall profits' tax. Mr. Hastert also delighted the class warriors in the press corps by lambasting recently retired Exxon CEO Lee Raymond's pay [as] 'unconscionable,' " the newspaper said.
"There's been unconscionable behavior all right, most of it on Capitol Hill. A decent portion of the latest run-up in gas prices -- and the entire cause of recent spot shortages -- is the direct result of the energy bill Congress passed last summer. That self-serving legislation handed Congress' friends in the ethanol lobby a mandate that forces drivers to use 7.5 billion gallons annually of that oxygenate by 2012.

"At the same time, Congress refused to provide liability protection to the makers of MTBE, a rival oxygenate getting hit with lawsuits. So MTBE makers are leaving the market in a rush, while overstretched ethanol producers (despite their promises) are in no way equipped to compensate for the loss of MTBE in the fuel supply. Ethanol is also difficult to ship and store outside of the Midwest, which is causing supply headaches and spot gas shortages along the East Coast and Texas.

"These columns warned Republicans this would happen. As recently as last year, ethanol was selling for $1.45 a gallon. By December it had reached $2 and is now going for $2.77. So refiners are now having to buy both oil and ethanol at sky-high prices. In short, the only market manipulation has been by politicians."

 

[dck4shrt]

#1. $3 bill is less than a 10% tax on Exxons earnings last year. There's gotta be a school of thought within the company that sasy 'now is the time to start getting in position to take advantege..."

And...

#2. $70 a barrel is the price Exxon may be getting but their cost, unless it's their hole in the ground is far higher, right? They only netted 10% remember.

Also, with coal > gas breaking even at $30 a barrel, comparable, then the profit potential for coal >gas is clearly higher, yes? I mean. no one is gonna care if gas made from coal settles in at $2.50-$3.00 a gallon at the pump IF IT STAYS there due the the predictability and stability of a domestic supply.

$3 billion per plant. I don't know how many plants we'd need, but if they are anything like refineries that are in the range of 200-400k barrels per day, we'll need quite a few to make a difference.

Exxon only netted 10% because they invested $110 billion into new exploration, new technology, new equipment, increased dividends to shareholders, payed off loans that were required during lean times, interest on those loans, and a huge retirement package for Lee Raymond...

I don't follow why the profit potential for coal is higher? At $70-$30 cost there is $40 to go around. Oil out of land based rigs costs like $5 to pump, you have $65 to line the pockets of the oil men and the Saudis and the refiners and the tankers and everyone else. You could say that there would be less hands to feed using domestic coal, but if there is profit potential, you can bet as many hands as possible will be trying to get involved. That's the way the market works.

The money speaks, people would be happy with a stabile domestic supply if its cheaper than the alternatives for peace of mind, but the fact remains that if we were to produce a cheaper alternative to crude foreign markets would be on it. We have to increase global supply of petroleum products faster than demand, so the price will subside, or we have to cut demand.

We could produce a lot of these plants and have a plentiful supply of gas, but the cost to the pump could still be substantial, and you know the market will only build as many plants as is needed to keep the supply (reasonably) down.