Should Non-Christians celebrate Christmas?

Beta84

They're out to get us
Thanks for the nice compliments! I love how you (and others) come in here and speak against what God says the truth is. YOU of all people, since we almost believe in the same God.
How do "WE KNOW that "the earth is older than what has been said"? Any proof? Were you there from the beginning? "I think" doesn't make it according to mAlice, Bob, Irish Eyes, etc., they need scientific proof...you know, MAN'S word over God's words. (btw, the Christmas thread has died so being :offtopic: shouldn't matter).
And believing or not believing in those other beings that you mentioned (Santa, tooth fairy, etc) will not make a hill of beans difference in anyone's eternal life. The only one that we need to believe in, that is of any importance and can save us from an eternity of sadness, is the One that most here argue against. The Bible said it would happen at the end; Imagine that, Bob...

First, just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean I believe in almost the same God as you. You believe in some holy trinity with a divine person walking around on earth who was, as Bob put it, a rebel in his day. Regardless, your interpretation of the old Testament is definitely different than mine. Do I believe everything written is as good as gold? No. I think some of it, such as the time references, are open for interpretation. You choose to believe in every word of the Bible as it has been translated to you in some hardcore way like a blind sheep and it's just a little sad. I seriously doubt anyone has a 100% accurate translation of the Bible, but I doubt even more that the most accurate interpretation magically materialized at the time of Jesus and wasn't observed by those who came before him. Trust me, they didn't believe in a holy trinity, so each time you claim the Holy Spirit was present during Creation you're only kidding yourself.

So back to the time reference...6000 years. There have been dinosaurs and human beings that have been discovered that date back far beyond 6000 years, among other fossils. So that, right there, suggests the world is older than the 6000 years religion gives it. Why? Because I think the time references aren't accurate to our current day. I have a feeling that either things were misinterpreted or days/years were calculated differently, especially in the Genesis era.

And again, you want to blindly believe that not believing in Jesus means going to hell. Why? Because the Bible says so. There is no offering that Jesus is divine and that you must believe in him or you'll go to hell. If Jesus showed everyone that we should believe in him then I bet you everyone would. I'm talking turn a lake into wine and walk on it kind of stuff. So if he's not doing stuff like that, how can he demand everyone else to believe in him or go to hell?

That's not only ridiculous, but that's an ####### of a religion that I would never want to be a part of. I'm not going to condemn anyone to hell just because they don't believe the same way I do. I can only hope that people use religion (or no religion) to make their lives as good as they can, while treating others with love and respect and trying to make the world a better place. The point of religion is to strike fear into people and force them to behave as better individuals, because humanity is regrettably somewhat savage and most won't behave unless necessary. If you're already using religion to do good then the rest of the beliefs aren't as important. It's just pathetic if a religion truly believes that if two people have equally behaved without sin, one person is an atheist and does a ton of stuff to help his community while the other does nothing but simply believes in Jesus, but that one person goes to hell while the other goes to heaven.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
First, just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean I believe in almost the same God as you. You believe in some holy trinity with a divine person walking around on earth who was, as Bob put it, a rebel in his day. Regardless, your interpretation of the old Testament is definitely different than mine. Do I believe everything written is as good as gold? No. I think some of it, such as the time references, are open for interpretation. You choose to believe in every word of the Bible as it has been translated to you in some hardcore way like a blind sheep and it's just a little sad. I seriously doubt anyone has a 100% accurate translation of the Bible, but I doubt even more that the most accurate interpretation magically materialized at the time of Jesus and wasn't observed by those who came before him. Trust me, they didn't believe in a holy trinity, so each time you claim the Holy Spirit was present during Creation you're only kidding yourself.
You don't believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob????
You don't believe that God can preserve His Word over the centuries???
And I definitely differ with your last comment. The Torah speaks of the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) many times. Right off the bat in Genesis 1 v 2 actually.
The angel of the Lord is another that you should do research on and the hundreds of prophesies about Jesus; "God with us" according to Isaiah.
Beta84 said:
So back to the time reference...6000 years. There have been dinosaurs and human beings that have been discovered that date back far beyond 6000 years, among other fossils. So that, right there, suggests the world is older than the 6000 years religion gives it. Why? Because I think the time references aren't accurate to our current day. I have a feeling that either things were misinterpreted or days/years were calculated differently, especially in the Genesis era.
You're putting "dating" by man before God. I don't see any reason to think that a day back then was any different from a present 24 hour day. It's the same earth, same sun and the same solar system that we're in.
Beta84 said:
And again, you want to blindly believe that not believing in Jesus means going to hell. Why? Because the Bible says so. There is no offering that Jesus is divine and that you must believe in him or you'll go to hell. If Jesus showed everyone that we should believe in him then I bet you everyone would. I'm talking turn a lake into wine and walk on it kind of stuff. So if he's not doing stuff like that, how can he demand everyone else to believe in him or go to hell?
You just won't accept the fact that the words of the Bible will be the judge of everyone who ever lived, will you?
About His divinity, you're badly mistaken. There is plenty of proof of His divinity. You and others just refuse to believe it. Just like the rich man and Lazarus story. Jesus did the walking on water and the people of His time STILL didn't believe in who He was, so your request has already been done.
Jesus told the Jews: "...they have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them". But they replied: "No, Father Abraham, if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent". Jesus said: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." (Luke 16 v 27-31). Got anything else?
Beta84 said:
That's not only ridiculous, but that's an ####### of a religion that I would never want to be a part of. I'm not going to condemn anyone to hell just because they don't believe the same way I do. I can only hope that people use religion (or no religion) to make their lives as good as they can, while treating others with love and respect and trying to make the world a better place. The point of religion is to strike fear into people and force them to behave as better individuals, because humanity is regrettably somewhat savage and most won't behave unless necessary. If you're already using religion to do good then the rest of the beliefs aren't as important. It's just pathetic if a religion truly believes that if two people have equally behaved without sin, one person is an atheist and does a ton of stuff to help his community while the other does nothing but simply believes in Jesus, but that one person goes to hell while the other goes to heaven.
You won't condemn them but God will. He has to. He can't go against His own laws.
And yes, the point of religion is to strike fear into people so they will follow the correct God. This is why the OT sounds very harsh at times.
Your last example is a truth that you disagree with but you're not the one who makes the rules so I guess you'll just have to not like it. It DOES matter who you know. A Christian would (should) not: "do nothing but believe in Jesus" to get to Heaven. Some inadvertantly do when they are saved on their death bed though. (The thief crucified next to Jesus).
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
No. I may be a good guy overall, but I never put words in people's mouths just to argue against the words I put there.

I use people's words against them, making them constantly have to change their story because what they say in the first place isn't really what they mean, until they justifiably look like they have no idea what they're talking about - all from their own words.


Again, sounds just like you.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
It's good that the way I describe my postings sounds like me...........

I really have nothing else to discuss with you. You're one of those FOS people who will twist a persons words, or make it sound like something completely different than it is, or read something into it that isn't there...oh, don't let me leave out "manipulative".

You may have the last word. Have a nice day.
 

Beta84

They're out to get us
Wow...after reading ItallianScallions response to me, I've decided he's brainwashed and possibly insane. No use arguing with that anymore because there's no convincing someone like that. :crazy:
 

thatguy

New Member
I really have nothing else to discuss with you. You're one of those FOS people who will twist a persons words, or make it sound like something completely different than it is, or read something into it that isn't there...oh, don't let me leave out "manipulative".

You may have the last word. Have a nice day.

thats exactly why i "this person" is the only one who has ever made my ignore list.
He makes shiat up and claims it is your argument, and then expects you to provide facts to back up the argument he claims you are making. All the while he lives in an alternate realitiy where his believes are somehow equivelent to scientific theroys and data from experimentation.
but it has been fun watching yuo and bob keep him dodging and weaving....
 
B

Bean

Guest
I haven't read the comments but my opinion is as follows. It is silly for Non Christians to celebrate Christmas. Contradictory is putting it mildly.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
thats exactly why i "this person" is the only one who has ever made my ignore list.
He makes shiat up and claims it is your argument, and then expects you to provide facts to back up the argument he claims you are making. All the while he lives in an alternate realitiy where his believes are somehow equivelent to scientific theroys and data from experimentation.
but it has been fun watching yuo and bob keep him dodging and weaving....


He likes to have the last word, too. It makes him feel like he's right.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
I haven't read the comments but my opinion is as follows. It is silly for Non Christians to celebrate Christmas. Contradictory is putting it mildly.


I find it contradictory that christians celebrate christmas, since it's roots and traditions are pagan. There is no scriptural or secular evidence that early christians commemorated the birth Jesus. In fact, in keeping with early Jewish law and tradition, it is likely that birthdays were not commemorated at all.
 

thatguy

New Member
I find it contradictory that christians celebrate christmas, since it's roots and traditions are pagan. There is no scriptural or secular evidence that early christians commemorated the birth Jesus. In fact, in keeping with early Jewish law and tradition, it is likely that birthdays were not commemorated at all.

when i was at christmas mass with the little lady this year i found it refreshing when the catholic priest acknowleged christians were "taking this pagan holiday for our own" as he pointed to all the christmas trees decorating the church. he continued on to say that he encouraged people to say "merry christmas" for the obvious reasons but also wanted to ensure that as christians, his congregation accepted all of those who choose to celebrate christmas, much like the early chuch intended when it arranged to have christmas coincide with the pagan holiday not the actual birth of jesus, which is more likely to have occured in the summer
 

Beta84

They're out to get us
I haven't read the comments but my opinion is as follows. It is silly for Non Christians to celebrate Christmas. Contradictory is putting it mildly.

Christians celebrating a Pagan holiday is quite odd as well, don't you think?
 
T

toppick08

Guest
when i was at christmas mass with the little lady this year i found it refreshing when the catholic priest acknowleged christians were "taking this pagan holiday for our own" as he pointed to all the christmas trees decorating the church. he continued on to say that he encouraged people to say "merry christmas" for the obvious reasons but also wanted to ensure that as christians, his congregation accepted all of those who choose to celebrate christmas, much like the early chuch intended when it arranged to have christmas coincide with the pagan holiday not the actual birth of jesus, which is more likely to have occured in the summer

was Holy Communion offered to all ?
 

thatguy

New Member
was Holy Communion offered to all ?

there was no stipulation this year, and i didn't see anyone refused. in the past the priest has suggested non-catholics not take it but instead approach with there arms crossed to be blessed and to show solidarity.....
 
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