Smokers Unite!

[Bustem' Down]

The problem is, the air was not filled with that smoke until that one person introduced it. The condition of our air is naturally free of cigarette smoke in any one place.

Again I will use my soda argument... If I am drinking a soda and don't want anymore, can I dump the rest out right at your feet?

Actually yes you can, so that's a bad analogy.

 

[PsyOps]

No, but we do not trust "studies" that do not coincide with what we have personally experienced and know first-hand. We also do not buy into media hysteria (see the global warming debates).

Not that you're going to read this, but here you go:

http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Editorials/Vol-1/e1-4.htm

His references are easily checked (god bless Al Gore's internet!).

To be perfectly honest (and I thought I already agreed with you on this) I don't either. But I personally don't want to take any chances with my health.

Why don't we do our own study. Why don't all you smokers quit. Then when we all die and a whole new generation of non-smokers has been bred let's see if the rate of lung cancer and heart disease drops substantially. I bet it does. What say you? If it doesn't then we can all resume smoking.

 

[Bustem' Down]

The problem is, the air was not filled with that smoke until that one person introduced it. The condition of our air is naturally free of cigarette smoke in any one place.

Again I will use my soda argument... If I am drinking a soda and don't want anymore, can I dump the rest out right at your feet?

The air was not filled with auto fumes, so should you stop driving your car?
The air was not filled with coal smoke so should you turn off your lights?
The air was not filled with methane gas so should farting be illegal?

Like I said, this line of thought is a dumb argument for both sides. There are better ways to justify things.

 

[PsyOps]

Actually yes you can, so that's a bad analogy.

So you're telling me if I dump soda at your feet you wont have a problem with it? I don't use this word very often but........... WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bustem' Down]

So you're telling me if I dump soda at your feet you wont have a problem with it? I don't use this word very often but........... WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!

I didn't say I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you have the right to do it. Just like you have the right to own and carry a weapon, even though Rosie O'Donnel has a problem with it.

 

[PsyOps]

The air was not filled with auto fumes, so should you stop driving your car?
The air was not filled with coal smoke so should you turn off your lights?
The air was not filled with methane gas so should farting be illegal?

Like I said, this line of thought is a dumb argument for both sides. There are better ways to justify things.

Actually, I agree with all those points. I hate all those things being in the air and would love to see them all gone for better forms of cleaner fuel (well except the farting thing. Sorry I can't help it).

Again, I am talking about common courtesy. It's only dumb because you say so, yet you are engaging in the "dumb" argument. How dumb is that?

 

[PsyOps]

I didn't say I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you have the right to do it. Just like you have the right to own and carry a weapon, even though Rosie O'Donnel has a problem with it.

Why would you have a problem with something I have a right to do?

 

[Azzy]

Frankly - no, that is not your right.

Nowhere in the Constitution is your right to "freedom from others' unpleasantness" guaranteed.



When you go out in public, smoke is just one of a plethora of unpleasant habits that you deal with.

I know that almost everytime I leave my doorstep, Some crank-faced jerkoff with his hat on sideways is going to be pounding his bass so loud that I vibrate in my own car.

(Not so much in SOMD, but other places I've lived) I have to deal with bums begging for change. I have to deal with Squeegee guys gunking up my window with their filthy rags, and demanding money for 'services rendered'.

I have to deal with loudmouth bafoons in movie theaters and their cellphones.

When using public transportation, I have to deal with BO, unbelievable stupidity, people I don't want to talk to striking up conversations, bad breath, people picking at their scabs, people scratching their genitals and sniffing their fingers, kids screaming and throwing things, teenagers screaming and throwing things, grown men screaming and throwing things, jwwb screaming and throwing things, and people loudly complaining about all the smoke.

When I go out to eat, I have to watch the 500 pound guy jamming a turducken down his gob.


Frankly smoking is the least of my worries when I go out in public.



If you can't deal with other people and their habits, then stay in your smoke/noise/BO/people free home.

sorry, couldn't help it

 

[Bustem' Down]

Actually, I agree with all those points. I hate all those things being in the air and would love to see them all gone for better forms of cleaner fuel (well except the farting thing. Sorry I can't help it).

Again, I am talking about common courtesy. It's only dumb because you say so, yet you are engaging in the "dumb" argument. How dumb is that?

So we are to make laws based on courtesy? What a babysitting world we live in now.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Actually, I agree with all those points. I hate all those things being in the air and would love to see them all gone for better forms of cleaner fuel (well except the farting thing. Sorry I can't help it).

Again, I am talking about common courtesy. It's only dumb because you say so, yet you are engaging in the "dumb" argument. How dumb is that?

You have me confused with someone who opposes all the smoking laws. Quite the opposite, I enjoy Maryland's smoke free restaurants and I'm a smoker. I just find the "I have rights as a smoker!" "I have a right to breathe clean air" argument dumb and expess that people move to more convincing arguments.

 

[Toxick]

Your examples don’t fly because they don’t cause you any ill-health except in your own stress.

...


Lemme take a brief friendly sidebar here, and reiterate that I, myself, am a non-smoker. I don't want to defend smokers, but oftentimes my fellow non-smokers have a tendency to irritate me with their endless whining on the subject.

It seems that you lumped me in with smokers several times in your diatribe, and although I don't take it personally - that is, I assumed that you're addressing smokers, and not me - I just wanted reinforce that I'm not siding with smokers out of a misguided sense of my own perceived rights, or because of any expediency or conveniece to myself.

Thank you.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled heated debate.

Your examples don’t fly because they don’t cause you any ill-health except in your own stress. However, I do (as well as many others) suffer from cigarette smoke. My sinuses can’t handle it and it gives me headaches.

See - here's my problem with this argument:

I'm not a smoker. I'm in the same boat as you... However when I walk through smoke, the only thing that happens to me is... I smell smoke. I can't believe that there are that many little delicate flowers out there whose health is endangered when a snootful of smoke comes their way. I've never gotten a headache from smoke. I've never ended up in the hospital from smoke. I've never been rendered short of breath from smoke - I've never had ANY adverse effects from smoke EVER.

Neither has my dear sweet dainty little 5 year old girly-girl daughter with her pink ribbons and ponytails for that matter.

I don't like the smell, but I have no concerns that crossing paths with a smoker in a parking lot is going to result in my death.I have my doubts about this happening to any functional human being, who's not already suffering to the point of being bed-ridden and breathing through a mask.

But while smokers are demanding it’s their right to smoke I will also demand that it is equally my right to not have your smoke in my face.

So beat it.

Problem solved.


Oh wait... you want me (the smoker) to be the one who has to beat it... because your rights are more important than mine.

In the end, all I ask for is a little common courtesy.

In the end, that's a load of horse####.

You're asking for a lot more than common courtesy.


You (Maybe not you personally, but most non-smokers in general, particularly those driving tobacco legislation) want to tell business owners what they can and cannot do in their own establishments. You want to tell people outside what they can and cannot do so that you are never "forced" to come into contact with their stinkiness. You basically want free reign to go wherever and do whatever, and never have to come into contact with cigarette smoke - and rather than be inconvenienced by taking it upon yourself to avoid contact with smoke - you want the cigarette smokers to bear the burden of making themselves scarce for your benefit.

Pfffft.


Please, don't hand me this "all I'm asking for is..." crap, because I'm not buying it.

But I know that isn’t going to happen. Smokers are going to smoke and make everyone around them smoke so they can keep their filthy addiction alive and then justify it as some sort of right.

Get a grip. There's more places that are smoke-free now than there are places you can smoke.

You just want ALL the places.

 

[PsyOps]

You have me confused with someone who opposes all the smoking laws. Quite the opposite, I enjoy Maryland's smoke free restaurants and I'm a smoker. I just find the "I have rights as a smoker!" "I have a right to breathe clean air" argument dumb and expess that people move to more convincing arguments.

My argument is less on the rights issue and more about common courtesy. I don't go up to a smoker and ask them to put it out. Nor do I demand that they go somewhere else. But I find it absurd that smokers would tell me to go somewhere else so they can light up whenever and wherever they please. For smokers it boils down to thinking they own all the airspace and you folks that don't smoke... screw you. Well, unfortunately for you smokers, since you can't apply some common courtesy you are being forced to. I don't particularly agree with it but I'm not too sad about it either because I am tired of having to alter my path for you guys and you are not expecting to yield one inch.

 

[ylexot]

Lots and lots of stuff that I won't bother quoting.

to everything Toxick said.

 

[Larry Gude]

That's not the issue...

And I'm trying to figure out why it is so hard for smokers to accept the fact the sucking smoke into your lungs is bad for you. Seems perfectly clear to me.

...in fact, that is the genesis of why she is asking for specifics, assumption; it is not self evident to her that smoking is bad for you. People say it should be. She simply says "show me why".

 

[Bustem' Down]

My argument is less on the rights issue and more about common courtesy. I don't go up to a smoker and ask them to put it out. Nor do I demand that they go somewhere else. But I find it absurd that smokers would tell me to go somewhere else so they can light up whenever and wherever they please. For smokers it boils down to thinking they own all the airspace and you folks that don't smoke... screw you. Well, unfortunately for you smokers, since you can't apply some common courtesy you are being forced to. I don't particularly agree with it but I'm not too sad about it either because I am tired of having to alter my path for you guys and you are not expecting to yield one inch.

And there you go lumping all smokers into one bunch. I've never smoked around people that don't smoke unless I specifically told it's ok. If I'm at a bar, where people are smoking all over the place, I won't smoke if I'm around non smokers. I will not smoke in my car if I'm riding with non smokers. We are a lot more courteous than you would like to paint us since probably 80% of the friends I have that smoke are just like me.

 

[MMDad]

...in fact, that is the genesis of why she is asking for specifics, assumption; it is not self evident to her that smoking is bad for you. People say it should be. She simply says "show me why".

Here's the information:


http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/sgr/index.htm

Now if you choose to believe it or not... Well that's up to you.

 

[BS Gal]

My argument is less on the rights issue and more about common courtesy. I don't go up to a smoker and ask them to put it out. Nor do I demand that they go somewhere else. But I find it absurd that smokers would tell me to go somewhere else so they can light up whenever and wherever they please. For smokers it boils down to thinking they own all the airspace and you folks that don't smoke... screw you. Well, unfortunately for you smokers, since you can't apply some common courtesy you are being forced to. I don't particularly agree with it but I'm not too sad about it either because I am tired of having to alter my path for you guys and you are not expecting to yield one inch.

I bet you fart and/or burp in parking lots, grocery stores and restaurants, though, huh? And around your pals or family. Or in your car with the window down.

 

[PsyOps]

See - here's my problem with this argument:

I'm not a smoker. I'm in the same boat as you... However when I walk through smoke, the only thing that happens to me is... I smell smoke. I can't believe that there are that many little delicate flowers out there whose health is endangered when a snootful of smoke comes their way. I've never gotten a headache from smoke. I've never ended up in the hospital from smoke. I've never been rendered short of breath from smoke - I've never had ANY adverse effects from smoke EVER.

Neither has my dear sweet dainty little 5 year old girly-girl daughter with her pink ribbons and ponytails for that matter.

I don't like the smell, but I have no concerns that crossing paths with a smoker in a parking lot is going to result in my death.I have my doubts about this happening to any functional human being, who's not already suffering to the point of being bed-ridden and breathing through a mask.

Well, there you have it, because Toxic has lungs of steel and sinuses that can block a forest fire in a single sniff, EVERYONE must feel this way. Because Toxic has never gotten a headache from it no one else possibly could have. Nevermind there are people with asthma that have ended up in the hospital from taking in too much second-hand smoke. Toxic hasn’t suffered from it (oh and his daughter too)… No one should. And what about those folks (like my dad) that are suffering from bad health or folks that have to have oxygen? Do you think this passive crossing of smoke would have any affect on them? Should they have to stay at home so smokers can have their way?You have to be kidding me!

In the end, that's a load of horse####.

You're asking for a lot more than common courtesy.


You (Maybe not you personally, but most non-smokers in general, particularly those driving tobacco legislation) want to tell business owners what they can and cannot do in their own establishments. You want to tell people outside what they can and cannot do so that you are never "forced" to come into contact with their stinkiness. You basically want free reign to go wherever and do whatever, and never have to come into contact with cigarette smoke - and rather than be inconvenienced by taking it upon yourself to avoid contact with smoke - you want the cigarette smokers to bear the burden of making themselves scarce for your benefit.

Pfffft.


Please, don't hand me this "all I'm asking for is..." crap, because I'm not buying it.

I have no desire to tell anyone what to do in their own establishments, in their cars, in their homes, anywhere. And yes I would like to go wherever I want without having to breath someone’s smoke in my lungs. I don’t want their smoke in my lungs. If I wanted that I would smoke. My lungs don’t have smoke in them for a reason. Because I choose not to smoke. I don’t think it’s anyone’s right to make that decision for me. But, I don’t run around screaming at smokers demanding this and that. And you haven’t paid one bit of attention to what I’ve said. I already said I go out of my way to avoid someone’s smoke. But I don’t think it’s too much to ask smokers to bear some of that burden and realize when they are around others that aren’t smoking to take it somewhere else. Frankly, I don’t care what crap you buy. I am me and not you. If you want to drag in someone’s smoke, have at it.

Get a grip. There's more places that are smoke-free now than there are places you can smoke.

You just want ALL the places.

Get a grip yourself… I want no such thing. I have stated it already (which, once again, you seem to not pay attention) I don’t want laws enacted that would forbid people from smoking altogether. I am thankful for the places that are smoke free. I am also thankful less and less people are smoking (not necessarily for me, but for their own health). It’s my only desire to make smokers aware that their smoking affects those that don’t smoke. It’s my opinion that they behave discourteously when they smoke near entrances to public places and flick their butts on the highway. I only ask they be more cognizant of these things. But, as I stated before… I know that’s never going to happen.

 

[PsyOps]

I bet you fart and/or burp in parking lots, grocery stores and restaurants, though, huh? And around your pals or family. Or in your car with the window down.

Do you really want to know my farting habits (which I might remind you is a natural phenomenon, unlike smoking)?

 

[ylexot]

Well, there you have it, because Toxic has lungs of steel and sinuses that can block a forest fire in a single sniff, EVERYONE must feel this way. Because Toxic has never gotten a headache from it no one else possibly could have. Nevermind there are people with asthma that have ended up in the hospital from taking in too much second-hand smoke. Toxic hasn’t suffered from it (oh and his daughter too)… No one should. And what about those folks (like my dad) that are suffering from bad health or folks that have to have oxygen? Do you think this passive crossing of smoke would have any affect on them? Should they have to stay at home so smokers can have their way?You have to be kidding me!

And you think because you get a headache, EVERYONE gets a headache