SOYG (Sick of Your Gym)

B

Big Fatty

Guest
PinnaclePerform said:
I hope you are kidding about the balance training overrated thing???? Balance training is one of the most underutilized tools in the gym!
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PinnaclePerform said:
_MightyMouse_ said:
Balance training is good for the type of ppl who like yoga, pilates, and so forth. "A perfectly safe exercise is a perfectly USELESS exercise." :killingme

You are completly off bases. Do some research on Neuromuscular Recruitment. Balance training increases more Motor Units and therfore increases size in muscle fiber density. Go and watch the best athletes in the world, and since you have USMC in your name, the military sends thier best forces to Athletes Performance in AZ. Do you think all of these people are wrong? Do some research. If you have any questions, I would be glad to educate you.
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PinnaclePerform said:
_MightyMouse_ said:
People laugh at what they dont know. Balanec will actually help with squats and deadlifts actually. Like I said, do your homework and you might learn something. Just curious, whats your fitness background???
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Jesus H. Christ

Doing squats and deadlifts will help squats and deadlifts. Not trying to do them on some stupid wobble board. Are you kidding me?

I have done my research and I do have an extensive background in the area of human performance and fitness. I continue to do homework on the subject.

How does a football player learn to tackle effectively or run better pass routes? They practice tackling and running routes. How does a sniper learn to shoot better? He spends some rounds at a range.

SAID principle.

My point behind my original statement was that balance training is useless when it comes down to what a person is hoping to attain by incorporating it into their programming. The Risk/Reward involved is High/Low. Especially if the individual's training experience is low. Progression is very important. If one cannot do a pushup from a normal position properly, why give them a pushup on a BOSU Dome? Logical thinking........

Inexperienced and Unknowledgable Trainers are giving this gimmic crap to people in the gym to try to WOW them. They know nothing about what they are doing and end up reinforcing bad movement mechanics. Not to mention, they walk a very thin line with injuring someone badly.

Does balance training have some merit? Yes, but not for the commercial gym population. These people want aesthetic-related results. They do not typically want the performance gains that one MIGHT obtain from balance training.
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PinnaclePerform

New Member
Although I agree with your SAID Principle and general public but your narrow views of balance training helping squats are unsupported and said without research. In a study done by Myers et al in 2006 clearly states that balance training increases power. If you have done your research, power is lost by aging adults faster then strength. Should everyone in the gym be on wobble boards? no. Should clients in the gym incorporate some type of balance training? YES!!! By implementing balance training, increases motor control, and in turn recruits more muscle fibers to the site that is being fatigued. I dont believe risk/reward is far off when done correctly like anything else. I urge you to find a research study showing that balance training decreases performance or strength in individuals.
 
B

Big Fatty

Guest
PinnaclePerform said:
Although I agree with your SAID Principle and general public but your narrow views of balance training helping squats are unsupported and said without research. In a study done by Myers et al in 2006 clearly states that balance training increases power. If you have done your research, power is lost by aging adults faster then strength. Should everyone in the gym be on wobble boards? no. Should clients in the gym incorporate some type of balance training? YES!!! By implementing balance training, increases motor control, and in turn recruits more muscle fibers to the site that is being fatigued. I dont believe risk/reward is far off when done correctly like anything else. I urge you to find a research study showing that balance training decreases performance or strength in individuals.
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I never said balance training decreases anything. I also explained myself in detail about MY opinions based on MY experience about the relevance and appropriateness of balance training in the general population.

As for my narrow views, how many world class powerlifters and olympic lifter do balance-oriented training? Strength and speed are kings. Not balance. We aren't training folks to be freaking ballerinas or high-wire acrobats.

F U C K research. When I first started in the fitness industry I got caught up in all the scientific mumbo-jumbo. I could explain the Kreb's Cycle, tell you origins and insertions of muscles, and quote the Sliding Filament Theory. I thought everyone needed to know this crap. I also thought everyone should be doing the latest bells-n-whistle gimmic crap too. Since then the basics have come back to me with a vengeance. I leave out the fluff crap.

So your "study done by Myers et al in 2006", means nothing to me. It's one study. It was also likely done on cyclists or some crap population that relates nothing to our discussion here. All the science crap is good for is explaining stuff after it has been done.

If I want guidance on how to bench press 700 lbs, I ask a person who has benched 700. I want information from the person in the trenches. Not a lab weenie who hasn't touched a barbell in his life.

Pinnacle, my guess is you are a good coach. Hopefully, you last a long time in this often short-lived business. You have a degree, ok. What does that mean? Are you an elite athlete? Do you walk the walk or just talk the talk? So you INTERNED with a pro sports team. What does that say? What athletes have you assisted in becoming stars? What results have you gotten for mom-n-pop, joe schmoe gym goers?

I don't want to go back and forth with you on this tired subject. I don't need to try and boast credentials either. In this industry there are a lot of paths to take to achieve a desired result. There are some "tried and true" methods however, to each his own. I have an open mind and am very willing to try new stuff. I will give something a good run. If it fails to produce results, then its not a keeper.
 
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PinnaclePerform

New Member
I think we can go back and forth for weeks, but I think we can agree to disagree. I think there are many trainers out there, some good, most suck! But the good ones still read research and not listen to Joe at the gym that can bench press 400 pounds but has more injuries then the average person. I will always go with research and proven science!
 
_MightyMouse_

_MightyMouse_

_USMCScoutSwimmer_
PinnaclePerform said:
I think we can go back and forth for weeks, but I think we can agree to disagree. I think there are many trainers out there, some good, most suck! But the good ones still read research and not listen to Joe at the gym that can bench press 400 pounds but has more injuries then the average person. I will always go with research and proven science!
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I can agree with your statement, "many trainers out there, some good, most suck!" However, research and proven science is something you hear from someone that does alot of reading but lacks in the experience department. It's all up to what the individual is trying to achieve. As far as I'm concerned, balance training is more oriented to someone who does bodyweight training and not looking to gain overall mass and strength. Granite, balance training may assist in stimulating additional muscle fibers in addtion to the main muscles utiilized in a compound exercise, but those results will a have minimal effect on a desired goal of mass/strength. I've never heard Arnold, Ronnie, or Jay boast how imperative balance training was to their regime. Although,
balance training can be effective for some just as Rippletoes 5x5 could be for others, but they are in a league of their own for ppl who are looking for different results.
 
B

Big Fatty

Guest
PinnaclePerform said:
I think we can go back and forth for weeks, but I think we can agree to disagree. I think there are many trainers out there, some good, most suck! But the good ones still read research and not listen to Joe at the gym that can bench press 400 pounds but has more injuries then the average person. I will always go with research and proven science!
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Dude, I wouldn't listen to your "Joe at the gym" either. Mainly because I can bench more than him........

The good trainers create a network. They build a group of individuals who they can go to for more specialized areas for information. Good trainers don't put all their eggs in one basket, ie. blindly follow shoddy research. Good trainers are expert "thieves" in the industry. Great trainers are artists who discover what works for the individual.

I read S & C Journals, keep up to date on health breakthrus, and I even read some medical journals. They are a source of information. They don't, however, dictate what I do in terms of training, nutrition, or even some health issues.

In the context in which I was bashing balance training originally, I still stand by my statement that it is worthless and a waste of time. Building a foundation with basics is paramount to any training program. If you are trying to lose weight as a primary goal, standing on yoga blocks to do squats is not optimal. Especially when you cannot perform a squat with your feet on the floor with any semblance of decent form.
 
B

Big Fatty

Guest
_MightyMouse_ said:
I can agree with your statement, "many trainers out there, some good, most suck!" However, research and proven science is something you hear from someone that does alot of reading but lacks in the experience department. It's all up to what the individual is trying to achieve. As far as I'm concerned, balance training is more oriented to someone who does bodyweight training and not looking to gain overall mass and strength. Granite, balance training may assist in stimulating additional muscle fibers in addtion to the main muscles utiilized in a compound exercise, but those results will a have minimal effect on a desired goal of mass/strength. I've never heard Arnold, Ronnie, or Jay boast how imperative balance training was to their regime. Although,
balance training can be effective for some just as Rippletoes 5x5 could be for others, but they are in a league of their own for ppl who are looking for different results.
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:faint::faint::faint:

Geez B, can't believe something well thought out and written could come from a Marine!
 
B

Big Fatty

Guest
I'll add this:

Bruce Lee- Having no way as way and no limit as
limit (disregard what is useless and retain what is
useful)

Buddy Morris- ALL programs work-they only work for
so long-NOTHING works forever!

Alwyn Cosgrove said this (all though I know he got it from somewhere else)- Methods are many, principles are few, methods always change, principles never do

My point? I have no point. I just see people spinning their wheels and not getting the results they want. They are doing things because some numbnut told them to. Why?

For the record also.......

Balls, beams, and wobble boards are not the only balnce training devices. Balance training encompasses a vast means of props, methods and exercises. I am not bashing them all. Just bashing the ignorant asses who employ them without having a real clue about anything.
 
P

PinnaclePerform

New Member
BF & MM,

This was a good discussion. I respect each of your opinions and look forward to more "bickering" in the future! Take care guys. Maybe we could all get together for a beer and discuss more? :buddies:
 
B

Big Fatty

Guest
PinnaclePerform said:
BF & MM,

This was a good discussion. I respect each of your opinions and look forward to more "bickering" in the future! Take care guys. Maybe we could all get together for a beer and discuss more? :buddies:
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I don't date balance weenies. :buddies:
 
thurley42

thurley42

HY;FR
warneckutz said:
So, everyone is happy now?! :dye:
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How's the "Resolutioner" situation at PF???

I've been doing the 0445 thing, cardio has been full, but weights have been free....Even if you are a noob if you come in that early to do work, it takes serious motivation....
 
warneckutz

warneckutz

Well-Known Member
thurley42 said:
How's the "Resolutioner" situation at PF???

I've been doing the 0445 thing, cardio has been full, but weights have been free....Even if you are a noob if you come in that early to do work, it takes serious motivation....
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Lots of new people last night.

We're starting entries for the 12-week challenge too, so keeping everyone busy for sure.
 
MDTerps

MDTerps

Back in the saddle
Soyg

Totally gross.....

The guy on cardio equipment next to me finishes up and goes to get a paper towel to wipe the equipment. Now we don't have the pre-wet wipes any more, you need to use the spray bottle these days. He gets a paper towel, doesn't spray the towel down, instead he wipes his sweat with it and then wipes the equipment down with his sweat soaked towel.

Now he isn't the first person I have seen do this. WTF is going through their heads to make them think they should wipe sweat off with sweat?
 
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