sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
I might add that her attorney told us explicitly what it meant, that she gets control over all of the above items, as well as where her daughter lives. He said that if she were to move, then they would have to go back and either agree out of court or go to court to get a new visitation schedule.
Pete
Repete
I was going to correct him but I didn't want it to look like I was picking on him.Originally posted by tatercake
something doesn't sound right about this. when you sign over rights to a child, you do just that ... meaning you have no rights to anything to do with the child, including visitation.
Ok,
First off "out of court" agreements are worth the paper they are written on, until a judge signs it
Second, he may have relented and allowed her to have physical custody with him having visitation but he has not given up custodial rights. Parental rights is the term used in most cases. Parental rights can be terminated by court order only and are only allowed in cases of danger or abuse. If a man could just give up parental right and responsibilities many would because it absolves them from child support as well as any contact. This is an often sought order when one party is estranged from the child and adoption is sought by a step parent.
Custodial rights are always retained by any parent unless it is revoked by a court. That being said, like I stated earlier just because he has the inherent right of shared Parental rights and custody (visitation) it doesnt mean he can just go tocourt one day and ask for custody just because.
crabcake
But wait, there's more...
yes, when you sign over your legal rights (1) the other parent has to be in agreement; meaning, a person paying support can't just say "I wanna sign over rights (so I don't have to pay)" and it's a done deal; the other parent has to agree; and (2) it means you have absolutely NO say with the child, including rights to visitation.
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
ok... so we've got parental rights, custodial rights, and visitation rights.
and we've got this divorce settlement, which I'm pretty sure was signed by a judge, that says my gf has "sole legal custody" and the ex gets visitation.
so what exactly does she have, and what can she do with it?
because the attorney assured her that the visitation schedule could always be changed later on should she decide to move, but that getting sole custody rather than joint custody would be much more difficult to change later down the line.
Pete
Repete
What you are talking about is Parental rights and Responsibilities. There are different adjutications for those rights. Shared and Sole. Shared means exactly that, the parents are expected to share in the decision making equally, and are expected to keepeach other informed. One will still have physical custody but they share the responsibility. Sole is more rarely granted. It is usually granted in abusive type scenarios or when there is a severe disagreement between the parents regarding a particular issue such as religion or something. "Parental Rights and Responsibilities" and "physical custody" are seperate issues in most states.
Pete
Repete
I find it hard to believe that a judge signed a "Sole" order of parental/custodial rights in a final judgement, a preliminary order is somewhat common but not a final judgement. Sole custody means that you are the primary decision maker in all matters and have veto power over the other parent. But as with anything any party can go back and have anything adjusted at anytime in post-divorce action.Originally posted by sleuth14
ok... so we've got parental rights, custodial rights, and visitation rights.
and we've got this divorce settlement, which I'm pretty sure was signed by a judge, that says my gf has "sole legal custody" and the ex gets visitation.
so what exactly does she have, and what can she do with it?
because the attorney assured her that the visitation schedule could always be changed later on should she decide to move, but that getting sole custody rather than joint custody would be much more difficult to change later down the line.
He is right
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
So basically if she were to move, the visitation schedule would have to be changed by the courts, and the only way he could potentially stop the daughter from moving is if he sued for custody to be changed, which in general would be difficult for him to do, correct?
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
As far as I know it is final (until someone decides to go back and try to reverse it). :shrug: The ex agreed to it in the settlement (in exchange for my gf giving him one more night of visitation than he previously had while the divorce was pending), papers were signed by both parties, and then signed by the judge.
How would it not be final and how would she go about finding out whether it is or isn't?
Pete
Repete
Well if she in fact has Sole parental rights/custody then leaving would be much easier, but yes since he had visitation if she moves and it disrupts his visitation schedule he has the right (and the burden) to make a motion to have it changed. she would first have to inform him of her intentions to move (usually 60 days prior), he would then have the right to challenge that and go for physical custody due to the move being a significant change of circumstance, or agree and have the visitation modified to one reasonable for the distance.
The deal here that most people do not understand or often forget is, that no matter how big a stooge some one is, how much you dislike them, how big a doofus their ex thinks they are they are both the kids PARENTS. Thus they both have a right to and have the right to influence, enjoy and participate in the childs life. The ONLY way that can be taken away is to have a judge permanently revoke parental rights to a child and that only happens in cases of abuse or upon mutual agreement of both parents.
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
I agree with that, so long as he is influencing her life, enjoying her life, and participating in her life in a constructive rather than destructive way.
I met the ex last weekend. I shook his hand, looked him right in the eye, and said "Nice to meet you." Then I helped him unload some boxes of the gf's stuff that he was returning to her.
My gf said afterward that she was somewhat surprised by my civility, to which I responded, "No matter what happens between us, that guy is still going to be her dad for the rest of her life. Might as well be on good terms with him, because if and when we do get married, it'll be a lot easier to be parents of the same kid if we can at least get along."
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
That's what the lawyer said. That's why she agreed to give up the extra day of visitation so that he would give her sole legal custody without a fight.
We figured we can amend the visitation schedule a lot easier than he can win custody, should the need ever arise.
Pete
Repete
Unofrtunatly you are only along for the ride on this one. His relationship with her is none of your business as long as it doesn't break a law. It is not your place to critisize nor approve of anything he does. That is between him and her. Hard place to be in but hey it's part of the deal. Just like I told my ex's man dejour once when boys mother and I were discussing an disagreement we had about boy and he offered up commentary "When I want your opinion on anything I will ring a bell and call your name, until then STFU and have another bag of cheetos."
sleuth
Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
Yeah.. I know it. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it but I know it. And I pretty much stay out of it to the best of my ability. I don't badmouth the dad in front of her.
I figure if he's a stooge, the day will come when she is old enough to realize it and voice her displeasure about their relationship and give reasonable explanations as to why she is unhappy about it, and she can decide whether she wants to have a relationship with her dad.
And one day, should it become necessary, a judge will take her plea into account should she really want nothing to do with the guy.
If he's not a stooge, and a day comes when she is happy with him and their relationship, then that's fine by me.
I got to wonder though. Already this little girl has extracurricular activities, but my gf has to make sure they're only on nights when she has the girl, because the ex won't take her to those activities if it's his night, saying that my gf "has no right to dictate how his time is spent with her". I think he's scum for not being willing to take part in the things this little girl enjoys on his time. If it keeps up, the visitation schedule will have to be changed, because it isn't fair to this little girl to not be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities because of her daddy's *******dness.
Chasey_Lane
Salt Life
Remember that when you call your ex a "worthless POS" or "stupid SOB" , you're essentially calling your child the same because they are a part of that person. :shrug: