Tebow!!!

[Larry Gude]

Getting a kicker in position to make a 59 yarder to win is just barely doing your job. And if it was that easy, the Cowboys would have a couple more wins this year.

That was ONE game. You just don't like the kid, eh?

 

[itsbob]

I just don't think he is a QB that can lead a team to a Superbowl. As defenses get to know him, he will be shut down.

No need to worry, Larry, you need to remember I wrote an English Comp paper in the late 70s saying how that guy Theisman would never be more than a 2nd rate qb..

Shoot was going to write something about the full size statue being in Titusville PA, but you wrote Theisman, not Heisman..

 

[b23hqb]

Getting a kicker in position to make a 59 yarder to win is just barely doing your job. And if it was that easy, the Cowboys would have a couple more wins this year.

Have you ever hit a golf ball in Denver, or anywhere else at altitude? You automatically club up one #, because that altitude gives you ten more, at least, yards on your average swing.

From top to bottom, NFL kickers are probably all capable of making a 59 yarder in Denver, or anywhere else, as long as they hit it solidy and on line.

Including here in Tampa, at sea level - Matt Bryant - 62 yards last play to beat the Eagles.

NFL Videos: Matt Bryant Highlight, WK 07 vs. Eagles 2006

It was destiny. What else can you call it?

As far as Barely doing one's job??? - with minimal seconds left in an almost impossible situation, at best very improbable situation, and having it work out IS getting the job done. No matter what.

Just give the guy credit for what he has helped his team to do. It really happened.

The record books say so.

 

[thurley42]

Have you ever hit a golf ball in Denver, or anywhere else at altitude? You automatically club up one #, because that altitude gives you ten more, at least, yards on your average swing.

From top to bottom, NFL kickers are probably all capable of making a 59 yarder in Denver, or anywhere else, as long as they hit it solidy and on line.

It was destiny. What else can you call it?

Barely doing one's job??? - with minimal seconds left in an almost impossible situation, at best very improbable situation, and having it work out IS getting the job done. No matter what.

The record books say so.

Ye I have played golf in Colorado springs. Didn't club any different.

It's not impossible or improbable. It's what they are supposed to do. Stop trying to crown him as something more than he is. A mediocre quarterback who has beat some bad teams. When he wins a super bowl than you can crown him.

 

[thurley42]

That was ONE game. You just don't like the kid, eh?

It's not a matter of liking or not liking anyone. I'm not getting all excited about nothing special. The Broncos aren't a terrible team, they still have some work to do to win thier division. They need more tools to go deep inthe post season. But the Ravens proved that they could win a super bowl never scoring touchdowns. You have a solid running game and a stifling defense and don't turn the ball over you can win. Nobody was worshipping Trent Dilfer that is for sure.

 

[Larry Gude]

It's not a matter of liking or not liking anyone. I'm not getting all excited about nothing special. The Broncos aren't a terrible team, they still have some work to do to win thier division. They need more tools to go deep inthe post season. But the Ravens proved that they could win a super bowl never scoring touchdowns. You have a solid running game and a stifling defense and don't turn the ball over you can win. Nobody was worshipping Trent Dilfer that is for sure.

Man. You're not being very objective. The Ravens won in spite of Dilfer. his whole job was 'don't screw it up'. Denver is a winning team BECAUSE of Tebow.
Orton wasn't getting it done. Nothing else has changed but that position.

 

[b23hqb]

Ye I have played golf in Colorado springs. Didn't club any different.

It's not impossible or improbable. It's what they are supposed to do. Stop trying to crown him as something more than he is. A mediocre quarterback who has beat some bad teams. When he wins a super bowl than you can crown him.

I'm not a long hitter, but after I flew over the first two greens with a club length normally used at sea level, I downsized my irons one club number for appropriate length. Altitude makes a huge difference. As with hitting baseballs and kicking footballs.

Nobody is crowning Tebow anything. Just give him credit, and his team, for what they have done, with a good shot at making the playoffs as AFC West champs.

Last year I gave him no chance to be even a decent, Dilfer-like NFL QB.

I always liked Dilfer here in Tampa, and it was sweet revenge for all the Dilfer appreciators in the face of Dilfer-haters when he helped the Ravens win their only SB right here in Tampa.

I am rethinking my position on Tebow, in spite of him being a stinking gator, because with a full off-season to work with his team, he could be a decent QB.

 

[Tilted]

The Denver coaching staff has done a good job of designing and implementing offensive game plans to take advantage of the talent they have (e.g., most notably, Tim Tebow). When he's asked to stand in the pocket and run through reads, he's bad. He's just too slow and that long wind up of his takes too long when we're talking about a second or third receiver option. With him taking snaps, that team needs to run the ball (which it does well) or have one primary receiver route and expect Tebow to tuck the ball and run (or throw it away) if that route isn't available. That's what makes that offense go.

Asking Tebow to do what NFL quarterbacks traditionally do - sit in the pocket and work through receiver progressions, committed to throwing the ball, and only running or throwing the ball away as a last resort - is a recipe for failure. They've got something that works for the personnel they have, and that's what they need to keep doing. Tim Tebow is a great runner, and capable of running an offense, but he is not - and I don't think he ever will be - a pass first and second quarterback. Whereas Philadelphia tried to get Michael Vick to stay in pass plays and only run when he has to, because they think that makes their offense better (at least more versatile), I don't see that as a practical option for the Broncos. Vick has the ability to do that if he's committed to it, I don't think Tebow does (at least, not at this point). Tebow is an option/running quarterback who can throw the ball just well/often enough to keep defenses a bit honest. He is good at that - maybe even good enough to be the first in the modern era of the NFL to make that work for a prolonged period of time (though it's too early to conclude that, and I'm inclined not to believe it's the case). But, if they try to ask him to be something else, the 'magic' will likely vanish. I hope for his sake and for the sake of those of us that are enjoying watching him play, they don't try to do that - they don't try to make him something he isn't and may never be capable of being.

On another note, did anyone notice (what looked to me to be) the pass fake he made when he was about 30 yards down field on that long scramble he had? I'm not sure it worked (i.e. bought him extra yards by pausing would-be open field tacklers), but that was pure gold - classic!

 

[Larry Gude]

The Denver coaching staff has done a good job of designing and implementing offensive game plans to take advantage of the talent they have (e.g., most notably, Tim Tebow). When he's asked to stand in the pocket and run through reads, he's bad. He's just too slow and that long wind up of his takes too long when we're talking about a second or third receiver option. With him taking snaps, that team needs to run the ball (which it does well) or have one primary receiver route and expect Tebow to tuck the ball and run (or throw it away) if that route isn't available. That's what makes that offense go.

Asking Tebow to do what NFL quarterbacks traditionally do - sit in the pocket and work through receiver progressions, committed to throwing the ball, and only running or throwing the ball away as a last resort - is a recipe for failure. They've got something that works for the personnel they have, and that's what they need to keep doing. Tim Tebow is a great runner, and capable of running an offense, but he is not - and I don't think he ever will be - a pass first and second quarterback. Whereas Philadelphia tried to get Michael Vick to stay in pass plays and only run when he has to, because they think that makes their offense better (at least more versatile), I don't see that as a practical option for the Broncos. Vick has the ability to do that if he's committed to it, I don't think Tebow does (at least, not at this point). Tebow is an option/running quarterback who can throw the ball just well/often enough to keep defenses a bit honest. He is good at that - maybe even good enough to be the first in the modern era of the NFL to make that work for a prolonged period of time (though it's too early to conclude that, and I'm inclined not to believe it's the case). But, if they try to ask him to be something else, the 'magic' will likely vanish. I hope for his sake and for the sake of those of us that are enjoying watching him play, they don't try to do that - they don't try to make him something he isn't and may never be capable of being.

On another note, did anyone notice (what looked to me to be) the pass fake he made when he was about 30 yards down field on that long scramble he had? I'm not sure it worked (i.e. bought him extra yards by pausing would-be open field tacklers), but that was pure gold - classic!

We live in a world that is a matter of degrees. The profound and, frankly, ugly, anti left hand bias that exists in the NFL which, apparently, Tilted has written the 'book' on as per the above venom laced screed, tries to claim that left handed 'things' like Vick and St. Timothy (note Tilted doesn't even extend the adjective 'person' when talking about either which is OK when talking about Vick) can't 'read'. The case is that only right handed people can 'read' and lefties just look at pictures or, worse, doodle on their playbooks when they should be 'reading'.

Well, the fact of the matter is left handed people 'see' far more than what righties do and the problem is play books that are dumbed down because everyone has to write them for right handers. Tebow 'sees' where his receivers SHOULD be but, aren't because of the limits of the right handed playbooks.

I'm sorry. It's just that simple and if coordinators who, btw, tend to be right handed and thereby biased to begin with, were able to open their doctrinaire minds and put in more left handed plays then, this sort of high minded dismissal of genius being hamstrung would have to find other victims.

Further proof? Bill Belichick, perhaps the best mind in the game, has one left footed punter after another on his team because right hand oriented teams struggle with it. What more is there to add?

 

[Otter]

...and St. Timothy.....

 

[Beta84]

That was ONE game. You just don't like the kid, eh?

you have to remember thurley is a big Bucknut and their last title game was busted because of the Gators, including Tim Tebow. He won't admit it and may not realize it, but it's impacting his judgment and he's being objective. If Terrell Pryor had done this, he'd be singing his praises and then some.

 

[Larry Gude]

you have to remember thurley is a big Bucknut and their last title game was busted because of the Gators, including Tim Tebow. He won't admit it and may not realize it, but it's impacting his judgment and he's being objective. If Terrell Pryor had done this, he'd be singing his praises and then some.

This'll fix his little red wagon for the rest of the day.

 

[Tilted]

We live in a world that is a matter of degrees. The profound and, frankly, ugly, anti left hand bias that exists in the NFL which, apparently, Tilted has written the 'book' on as per the above venom laced screed, tries to claim that left handed 'things' like Vick and St. Timothy (note Tilted doesn't even extend the adjective 'person' when talking about either which is OK when talking about Vick) can't 'read'. The case is that only right handed people can 'read' and lefties just look at pictures or, worse, doodle on their playbooks when they should be 'reading'.

Well, the fact of the matter is left handed people 'see' far more than what righties do and the problem is play books that are dumbed down because everyone has to write them for right handers. Tebow 'sees' where his receivers SHOULD be but, aren't because of the limits of the right handed playbooks.

I'm sorry. It's just that simple and if coordinators who, btw, tend to be right handed and thereby biased to begin with, were able to open their doctrinaire minds and put in more left handed plays then, this sort of high minded dismissal of genius being hamstrung would have to find other victims.

Further proof? Bill Belichick, perhaps the best mind in the game, has one left footed punter after another on his team because right hand oriented teams struggle with it. What more is there to add?

For the record, I didn't make the connection with Vick being left-handed as well (I do know that, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time) AND my point wasn't that Vick couldn't read defenses and run through his receiver progression fast enough. Quite to the contrary, my point was that Vick could function as a pass first and second quarterback, whereas I don't think Tebow can, because he has better skills/abilities in that regard (e.g. running through reads quicker and throwing the ball better). My point was to suggest differences in the games that Vick and Tebow can play, not to suggest that those games are much the same.

I think that trying to make Tebow more of a classic, throw first and second, quarterback would be a travesty. Perhaps he needs to be that to have continued success in the league, perhaps he doesn't. But, I don't think he will be able to be, and I think that trying to make him that will hurt his career and marginalize him into being just a temporary cultural phenom that spends most of his career as a backup - adored by fans (as some back-ups are) because he doesn't get much of a chance to demonstrate that their lofty expectations are unjustified. More importantly, he won't be as fun to watch.

I'm hoping that doesn't happen. I'm hoping Denver continues to understand (and accept) what it has and to make the best use there of. And, if it decides that he isn't enough to get the ultimate job done that it moves on to someone else whom it thinks can, and allows Tebow to continue being what he is (as opposed to what some teams may think they need him to be) for someone else.

 

[thurley42]

you have to remember thurley is a big Bucknut and their last title game was busted because of the Gators, including Tim Tebow. He won't admit it and may not realize it, but it's impacting his judgment and he's being objective. If Terrell Pryor had done this, he'd be singing his praises and then some.

and you're a big Gator homer who kneels/slurps before Tebow...

and our last title game was against LSU....just an FYI

It has nothing to do with that.....at all. You could say that hopefully Meyer will bring a Tebow like character into Columbus....I respect the heck out of what he accomplished in college....I just don't think he's anything other than a mediocre QB....I don't see why it is so hard to grasp that...:shrug:

I've never once had any delusion of Pryor being anything other than a WR in the NFL....He probably won't even amount to that now....

 

[Larry Gude]

For the record, I didn't make the connection with Vick being left-handed as well (I do know that, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time) AND my point wasn't that Vick couldn't read defenses and run through his receiver progression fast enough. Quite to the contrary, my point was that Vick could function as a pass first and second quarterback, whereas I don't think Tebow can, because he has better skills/abilities in that regard (e.g. running through reads quicker and throwing the ball better). My point was to suggest differences in the games that Vick and Tebow can play, not to suggest that those games are much the same.

I think that trying to make Tebow more of a classic, throw first and second, quarterback would be a travesty. Perhaps he needs to be that to have continued success in the league, perhaps he doesn't. But, I don't think he will be able to be, and I think that trying to make him that will hurt his career and marginalize him into being just a temporary cultural phenom that spends most of his career as a backup - adored by fans (as some back-ups are) because he doesn't get much of a chance to demonstrate that their lofty expectations are unjustified. More importantly, he won't be as fun to watch.

I'm hoping that doesn't happen. I'm hoping Denver continues to understand (and accept) what it has and to make the best use there of. And, if it decides that he isn't enough to get the ultimate job done that it moves on to someone else whom it thinks can, and allows Tebow to continue being what he is (as opposed to what some teams may think they need him to be) for someone else.

Tebow now is much like early Vick wouldn't you say? Look, throw OR look, no throw, run, look while running, run, run...

Vick has a big wind up. Vick isn't all that accurate.

Further, Tebow seems to be able to avoid the huge hits Vick has always taken and part of that is Vick can be KO'd by pretty much anyone on the field because he's small. Tebow is not giving away anything to LB's let alone DB's.

What I am wondering is if Tebow can follow in the Steve Young mold; the awesome athlete that is accurate as hell. I mean, no, he can't because Tim simply isn't ever going to throw the ball that well but, it just think it is silly to say Tebow's progression is one and run and that's all it will ever be.

 

[Beta84]

I'm hoping that doesn't happen. I'm hoping Denver continues to understand (and accept) what it has and to make the best use there of. And, if it decides that he isn't enough to get the ultimate job done that it moves on to someone else whom it thinks can, and allows Tebow to continue being what he is (as opposed to what some teams may think they need him to be) for someone else.

It would be nice if they could provide him some talent on offense. Everyone wants to complain about how Tebow isn't a very good passing QB, but their pass protection isn't very good and their WRs are even worse. They traded away their best WR, Lloyd, so the best WR is a 2nd year guy who is still getting the hang of playing in the NFL.

and you're a big Gator homer who kneels/slurps before Tebow...

and our last title game was against LSU....just an FYI

It has nothing to do with that.....at all. You could say that hopefully Meyer will bring a Tebow like character into Columbus....I respect the heck out of what he accomplished in college....I just don't think he's anything other than a mediocre QB....I don't see why it is so hard to grasp that...:shrug:

I've never once had any delusion of Pryor being anything other than a WR in the NFL....He probably won't even amount to that now....

My bad, I don't follow OSU*'s undeserved title game losses

You're only considering his throwing stats. He's not as good of a pure passer as Kyle Orton is, so by that you'd say Orton is the better QB. Yet who is leading the team to the top of the division and who had them in the basement when he was benched?

There are a lot of intangibles and other items (i.e. RUNNING) that Tebow can do that a pocket passer like Orton can't. I've never said that Tebow was going to be an amazing NFL QB and didn't expect him to have success this year, but his team's record has completely turned around with him at the helm, which makes him a GOOD QB, at least THIS year for THIS team. And the wins and losses are all that matter.

By the way, his 4th quarter stats are among the top in the league. It seems like he is one of the best QBs in the league at passing when it matters most.

Tebow now is much like early Vick wouldn't you say? Look, throw OR look, no throw, run, look while running, run, run...

Vick has a big wind up. Vick isn't all that accurate.

Further, Tebow seems to be able to avoid the huge hits Vick has always taken and part of that is Vick can be KO'd by pretty much anyone on the field because he's small. Tebow is not giving away anything to LB's let alone DB's.

What I am wondering is if Tebow can follow in the Steve Young mold; the awesome athlete that is accurate as hell. I mean, no, he can't because Tim simply isn't ever going to throw the ball that well but, it just think it is silly to say Tebow's progression is one and run and that's all it will ever be.

Vick has a better arm than Tebow. Vick is faster than Tebow but can't run anybody over, making Vick a more "explosive" option that can break anything for a TD, but also more fragile.

Tebow is closer to an Alex Smith mold. It took him awhile to improve his passing skills, but he's doing an awfully good job in San Fran this season.

 

[Otter]

By the way, his 4th quarter stats are among the top in the league. It seems like he is one of the best QBs in the league at passing when it matters most.

Not to argue, but that is a point that I differ with and am tired of hearing it from the commentators,fans, etc. Stats against a prevent defense can be put up by any QB. The Bears screwed up royally by going to prevent when they had shut him down all game. Even at that, if their RB had stayed inbounds at the end, it would have been a Bronc loss.

I have no problem with Tebow the person or QB, I just think Denver would be better served in the long run without him at QB. He's fine now, but once defenses adjust to him, he's run-of-the-mill.

 

[thurley42]

It would be nice if they could provide him some talent on offense. Everyone wants to complain about how Tebow isn't a very good passing QB, but their pass protection isn't very good and their WRs are even worse. They traded away their best WR, Lloyd, so the best WR is a 2nd year guy who is still getting the hang of playing in the NFL.


My bad, I don't follow OSU*'s undeserved title game losses

You're only considering his throwing stats. He's not as good of a pure passer as Kyle Orton is, so by that you'd say Orton is the better QB. Yet who is leading the team to the top of the division and who had them in the basement when he was benched?

Right, the same one that beat the undefeated Packers this week? Could it have just been poor coaching?

Ok, I admit, that made me ill to say.....

There are a lot of intangibles and other items (i.e. RUNNING) that Tebow can do that a pocket passer like Orton can't. I've never said that Tebow was going to be an amazing NFL QB and didn't expect him to have success this year, but his team's record has completely turned around with him at the helm, which makes him a GOOD QB, at least THIS year for THIS team. And the wins and losses are all that matter.

The Wildcat worked for the Dolphins for awhile too......

You are right, W and L's are all that matter....and I don't deny he's been good for the team this year....but overall, full body of work..he won't be a great QB...and they won't go deep in the playoffs....

Now that being said, is it still a lot better than Denver hoped 7 weeks ago...of course it is! But for the love of god..he's not the second coming of Montana, Manning, Brady, hell Phil Simms...You can't turn on the TV without hearing about him every ten seconds....and I don't think that is fair to the running backs, the kicker, the outstanding defensive play....

Anyway, he's a polarizing figure, you either love him or hate him I guess...makes for good NFL drama....I'll be in Denver in a couple of weeks, I'll pick you up a #15 jersey...

By the way, his 4th quarter stats are among the top in the league. It seems like he is one of the best QBs in the league at passing when it matters most.

Without the outstanding play of the defense, the 4th quarter doesn't matter...time to prepare for his 2 minute offense will mitigate this..

Vick has a better arm than Tebow. Vick is faster than Tebow but can't run anybody over, making Vick a more "explosive" option that can break anything for a TD, but also more fragile.

agree
Tebow is closer to an Alex Smith mold. It took him awhile to improve his passing skills, but he's doing an awfully good job in San Fran this season.

I think Alex Smith has always been a good QB, he just hasn't had the correct coaching staff, offensive game plan around him....[/QUOTE]

 

[Beta84]

Right, the same one that beat the undefeated Packers this week? Could it have just been poor coaching?

Ok, I admit, that made me ill to say.....

The Wildcat worked for the Dolphins for awhile too......

You are right, W and L's are all that matter....and I don't deny he's been good for the team this year....but overall, full body of work..he won't be a great QB...and they won't go deep in the playoffs....

Now that being said, is it still a lot better than Denver hoped 7 weeks ago...of course it is! But for the love of god..he's not the second coming of Montana, Manning, Brady, hell Phil Simms...You can't turn on the TV without hearing about him every ten seconds....and I don't think that is fair to the running backs, the kicker, the outstanding defensive play....

Anyway, he's a polarizing figure, you either love him or hate him I guess...makes for good NFL drama....I'll be in Denver in a couple of weeks, I'll pick you up a #15 jersey...

Without the outstanding play of the defense, the 4th quarter doesn't matter...time to prepare for his 2 minute offense will mitigate this..


agree

I think Alex Smith has always been a good QB, he just hasn't had the correct coaching staff, offensive game plan around him....

Orton's team scored 19 points against a mediocre Green Bay defense. I know it was a nice win, but let's not get carried away and say that Orton was the reason his team won the game. That was a HUGE defensive effort by the Chiefs, they played an out-of-their-minds perfect game. But yeah, his team won. Maybe he should have tried that in Denver.

The Wildcat worked for the Dolphins for awhile, yes. Then it stopped...do you know why? A few things happened, but I'll give a few that were probably the killers. First, their run blocking got worse the following seasons and it couldn't be as effective when you don't block anyone. Second, it can scare someone when passing is a factor, but when you use a RB that's as likely to throw an INT as a completion, it doesn't scare you over the top. Third, a ton of teams started running it, so it wasn't as unique and teams focused more time on stopping it. Tebow can throw and there aren't many teams who are going to adopt the Broncos style, so it has a chance to continue success. I'm not saying it will, but it has a better chance than the Fins' Wildcat.

I agree he's not a great QB right now, but who knows how he can develop? He puts in a lot of effort. I strongly disagree with your impression of Alex Smith because he downright sucked for awhile. This is the first year he's been a respectable QB. It may be scheme, maybe he's progressed, or a combo, but to say he's always been a good QB isn't accurate.

I agree that without a good defense, he may not have had those chances in the 4th quarter. But then again, the Ravens wouldn't have won a Super Bowl with TRENT DILFER at QB without a GREAT defense. He doesn't throw INTs and he fits in well with the scheme they're running. The Ravens usually use it, the Bears use it, the Steelers use it...running game + great defense + QB that doesn't screw up. So why is it forbidden for Tebow to do the same thing?

As for the part about always seeing him on TV...I don't know why he became so popular. At UF, he was popular because he was a local player that came highly recruited, lived up to the billing, helped win 2 National Championships and a Heisman, and is an all around good guy that always says the right thing and has a team-first attitude that drives his team to victory. For crying out loud, he goes to the Phillipines with his family and helps the poor every year. He brings dying children to each game so they can enjoy themselves. There's no discernable character flaw. Why does everyone have to love him or hate him? What kind of crazy person can hate someone like that? I just don't get it. I know that doesn't have anything to do with him being a QB, but maybe people just like a story about a guy that nobody can find fault with. Every now and then, it's nice to see a genuinely good guy have success instead of seeing stories about Ben Roethlisraper or Michael "Let's kill some dogs" Vick. :shrug:

 

[thurley42]

Orton's team scored 19 points against a mediocre Green Bay defense. I know it was a nice win, but let's not get carried away and say that Orton was the reason his team won the game. :

Boom...plug Tebow's name in there instead of Orton's and you get my point...