The GOP's TITANIC Shiavo mistake...

[somdcrab]

 

[dems4me]

Dems, I believe I injected cancer patients into this discussion, but everyone seems to have missed my point. My father did not suffer the pain of starvation or dehydration which is one of the major objections to pulling Terri's feeding tube. That's the only point I was trying to make.

Thanks for the clarification. I too have seen people ravished with cancer. It's a terrible ordeal. I'm sorry to hear about your fathers passing.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Yes there is a difference, but until someone can legally define what constitutes as being dead and what constitutes as the beginning of life, I won't get into the particulars of the differences between killing and murder. The husband is the one refussing care for her.. not her decision in my opinion and that I see as being a

I think your own marriage experience may be coloring your opinion of Terri's husband.

I believe that life starts when a sperm fertilizes the an ovum. I believe life ends when there is no more brain activity. Now there may be debate over either philosophically. The law is cloudy with regard to the beginning of life, but a fetus has been given human life status, at least in California, with the Peterson case decision much to the chagrin of pro abortion people. The law is fairly consistent across states that lack of any brain activity is "brain dead" and basis for discontinuation of any artificial means of life support be it heart lung machines or feeding tubes.

 

[dems4me]

I think your own marriage experience may be coloring your opinion of Terri's husband.

I believe that life starts when a sperm fertilizes the an ovum. I believe life ends when there is no more brain activity. Now there may be debate over either philosophically. The law is cloudy with regard to the beginning of life, but a fetus has been given human life status, at least in California, with the Peterson case decision much to the chagrin of pro abortion people. The law is fairly consistent across states that lack of any brain activity is "brain dead" and basis for discontinuation of any artificial means of life support be it heart lung machines or feeding tubes.

My own marriage experience? Boy, ya' really got me pegged!!...


You are soo cute 2A... I consider breathing and the heart beating being impulses from the brain which shows there isn't a lack of brain activity... it's not just reflexes... You need the brain for the heart to beat and the lungs to breath - I feel its impulses from the brain telling the body to do this which tells me there is some brain activity --- I think its not a coincidence for this all to be reflexes for all these years... It's the part of the brain that instructs this to happen which to me says there is brain activity. I guarantee you that if you chop her head off, she will not continue to breath and have a heart beat - why? because it's coming from the brain, thereby creating a case that she does indeed have some brain activity.
Eitherway... thanks for the laugh - you are very sweet.

 

[somdcrab]

My own marriage experience? Boy, ya' really got me pegged!!...


You are soo cute 2A... I consider breathing and the heart beating being impulses from the brain which shows there isn't a lack of brain activity... it's not just reflexes... You need the brain for the heart to beat and the lungs to breath - I feel its impulses from the brain telling the body to do this which tells me there is some brain activity --- I think its not a coincidence for this all to be reflexes for all these years... It's the part of the brain that instructs this to happen which to me says there is brain activity. I guarantee you that if you chop her head off, she will not continue to breath and have a heart beat - why? because it's coming from the brain, thereby creating a case that she does indeed have some brain activity.
Eitherway... thanks for the laugh - you are very sweet.

ain't no secrets in here

 

[dems4me]

ain't no secrets in here

:shrug: Got me... :shrug:


I'm just waiting for the next one to come up and kick the dems cage of philosophy... I guess folks just kind of see this is as the magic 8-ball thing... you shake dems up and out comes the response that may or may not relate to the subject at hand....

 

[2ndAmendment]

My own marriage experience? Boy, ya' really got me pegged!!...

Only got that from your own posts.

You are soo cute 2A...

I consider breathing and the heart beating being impulses from the brain which shows there isn't a lack of brain activity...

Granted, the most basic functions of life are still being directed by the brain. There is no cognitive function activity.

The brain consists of five major regions, the olfactory lobes, cerebrum, optic lobes, cerebellum, and the medula oblongata. The cerebellum is responsible for muscle coordination. The cerebrum is responsible for learning and reasoning. The olfactory lobes are responsible for the sense of smell. The optic lobes are responsible for the sense of sight. The medula oblongata controls some organ function, such as respiration rate and heart rate.

The medula oblongata is the first portion of the brain to develop and typically the last portion of the brain to die. The medula oblongata can provide heart and lung signals when there is little or no activity from the other sections. Terri's cerebrum does not show any function. People without cerebrums, but with medullas, are said to be ancephalic, which literally means "without a brain". They can breathe, and their heart beats because these functions are controlled by the medulla but they aren't capable of conscious thought.

Now the question is, are you a live person if you have no conscious thought? Babies that are born ancephalic are allowed to die.

 

[dems4me]

Now the question is, are you a live person if you have no conscious thought? Babies that are born ancephalic are allowed to die.

2A - I don't believe I've posted anything about me being married before on this forum...

Anyways, are the babies allowed to die or are they starved ? Or does their body just shut down and it takes its course? There's a difference here... her brain does obviously show brain SOME brain activity... what would be the harm in letting the parents try rehabilitation therapy. The body is an awesome thing... maybe the brain will start working under the proper treatment... there is SOME activity going on so I think she is alive. To pull her feeding tube as a way to kill her off is just something I see as wrong... terribly, terribly wrong.

Can I have the last word yet?

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A - I don't believe I've posted anything about me being married before on this forum...

My mistake. Maybe it was from a PM or just a perception.

Anyways, are the babies allowed to die or are they starved ? Or does their body just shut down and it takes its course? There's a difference here... her brain does obviously show brain SOME brain activity... what would be the harm in letting the parents try rehabilitation therapy. The body is an awesome thing... maybe the brain will start working under the proper treatment... there is SOME activity going on so I think she is alive. To pull her feeding tube as a way to kill her off is just something I see as wrong... terribly, terribly wrong.

Can I have the last word yet?

The babies are not fed or given fluids. They are allowed to die. They have the same kind of brain function Terri has, basic organ function, nothing more. I believe in miracles and I believe the body is an awesome creation. I also believe that Terri is dead.

Nope.

 

[dems4me]

She doesn't look dead to me... usually people don't utter sounds, have bowel movements, breath and have a beating heart when they are dead -- especially for having been dead for over 15 years :shrug:

 

[2ndAmendment]

She doesn't look dead to me... usually people don't utter sounds, have bowel movements, breath and have a beating heart when they are dead -- especially for having been dead for over 15 years :shrug:

I think you are just being stupid, but that is your right.

 

[Charles]

I think you are just being [SIZE=4[B]]stupid[/B][/SIZE], but that is your right.

You said STUPID!
Intolerant.

 

[dems4me]

You said STUPID!
Intolerant.

come on 2A just admit it -- she is alive and technically not DEAD, nor has she been a dead corpse for 15 years :shrug:
You don't need to resort to name calling, I would have expected it from others, but not you.

 

[2ndAmendment]

come on 2A just admit it -- she is alive and technically not DEAD, nor has she been a dead corpse for 15 years :shrug:
You don't need to resort to name calling, I would have expected it from others, but not you.

You have the right to ignore the facts that every medical expert that has actually examinied Terri says she is brain dead. Ignoring that is stupid. Sorry, it just is. I don't think you are a stupid person. I think your stance on this subject and your choice to ignore the experts is stupid.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You said STUPID!
Intolerant.

 

[Nickel]

come on 2A just admit it -- she is alive and technically not DEAD, nor has she been a dead corpse for 15 years :shrug:
You don't need to resort to name calling, I would have expected it from others, but not you.

Dems, would you like to be a prisoner inside your own body for 15 years? She isn't coming back, I think that's pretty clear here. If in fact she does have the ability to "think", how do you know that she doesn't want it to just all end? I gotta tell ya, if I were her, I'd have wanted my family to end it a long time ago. She cannot have peace until her suffering is over. JMO :shrug:

 

[Bruzilla]

I just finished reading Ann Coulter's column that deals with the Schiavo case, and yet another Republican is showing their ass. It seems that she, like so many others, is taking the Schindlers at their word and not bothering to check the facts... which is odd for Ann.

Like many others she's wondering why the Bush boys aren't taking more affirmative actions, i.e., sending in da troops, to rescue Terri from her fate of being murdered. And like so many others who have looked at the facts, folks like the Bush boys, she doesn't understand the reality of the situation.

Yes, Jeb Bush could send in the troopers or the guard to secure her while this is further fought in the courts, but now that Jeb has been more fully informed of Schiavos true condition, his support (and that of George) is receding quickly. Just like the support for her in the Congress evaporated after the facts become known. Having her come to DC to "testify" would have made the Republicans look like bigger vegetables than Schiavo.

I guess it's about time for me to haul my fat but down to the Clay County Office of Elections and change my party affiliation.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I guess it's about time for me to haul my fat but down to the Clay County Office of Elections and change my party affiliation.

Constitution Party?

 

[vraiblonde]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/11229201.htm

Hours after a judge ordered that Terri Schiavo was not to be removed from her hospice, a team of state agents were en route to seize her and have her feeding tube reinserted - but they stopped short when local police told them they would enforce the judge's order, The Miami Herald has learned.

Holy crap! Can you imagine????

Musing:

When Terri Schiavo was a healthy, fully functioning young woman, do you think she ever dreamed that she would be so famous? That there might be a cop showdown over her? That Congress might pass a bill on her behalf? That every single cable news program would run stories about her on a round-the-clock basis?

It boggles the mind.

 

[vraiblonde]

Bruz...

which is odd for Ann.

This fiasco is now considered in Clintonian terms; ie, it won't be acceptable if they're wrong, therefore they must 'win'. The word, it seems, is out.

'They're'. Christ. I am now refering to 'we' as 'they'.

It is stunning to watch a movement, conservatism, that made reason, independent thought and logic it's stock in trade self immolate into a farce of group think and wagon circling in a few short days.

My God.