The GOP's TITANIC Shiavo mistake...

D

dems4me

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vraiblonde said:
Okay, let's say when Terri dies, her parents want to have her stuffed and displayed in a glass case in their living room. Should they be able to do that? It's their daughter, right? And they're not hurting anyone, right? So if it makes them feel better, they should be able to, right? I mean, her husband was just going to have her burnt up - why shouldn't they be able to keep her on display?

That's a serious question, by the way.
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Vria if that's a serious question it goes back to the debate of the folks that don't want her to die is because they still view her as being alive... if she's dead and in a glass case - that would be desecration of sorts and not leaving the dead in peace or whatever. If she was dead then I'm sure 100% of the folks polled would disagree to her being displayed in the living room... but I do forsee a legacy or law on her behalf in the future called the Shaivo law, where it requests your recessitation wishes on your drivers license next to the organ donor option. :shrug:
 
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vraiblonde

vraiblonde

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dems4me said:
If she was dead then I'm sure 100% of the folks polled would disagree to her being displayed in the living room...
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But why? It's their choice and not hurting her or anyone else. What's the problem?

Okay, I'll ramp it down a notch:

What if Terri's lungs fail and the Schindlers want to put her on a breathing machine? Feeding tube and breathing machine - would that be okay?

What if her heart fails and the Schindlers want to hook her up to a machine that will keep her heart beating. Feeding tube, breathing machine and heart machine - still okay?

Where do you draw the line between letting someone die in peace and keeping them alive by artificial means?
 
D

dems4me

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vraiblonde said:
But why? It's their choice and not hurting her or anyone else. What's the problem?

Okay, I'll ramp it down a notch:

What if Terri's lungs fail and the Schindlers want to put her on a breathing machine? Feeding tube and breathing machine - would that be okay?

What if her heart fails and the Schindlers want to hook her up to a machine that will keep her heart beating. Feeding tube, breathing machine and heart machine - still okay?

Where do you draw the line between letting someone die in peace and keeping them alive by artificial means?
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Those are all whatifs - not the case at hand... if we are dealing in the world of what ifs... what if she could eat on her own and didn't require a tube, would you still want to put an end to her life because you feel she is not there mentally :shrug:



BTW, so there's no confusion does this officially mean you now want to be encased in glass and put on display somewhere :shrug:


:lol: Actually some folks do keep the creamated ashes in an urn in the living room though... :ohwell:



Unrelated - boss just brought me a huge cup of Chia lattee from Starbucks -- :dance: I must have been dozing off on this thread for the past half hour ... :roflmao:
 
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Charles

Charles

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vraiblonde said:
But why? It's their choice and not hurting her or anyone else. What's the problem?

Okay, I'll ramp it down a notch:

What if Terri's lungs fail and the Schindlers want to put her on a breathing machine? Feeding tube and breathing machine - would that be okay?

What if her heart fails and the Schindlers want to hook her up to a machine that will keep her heart beating. Feeding tube, breathing machine and heart machine - still okay?

Where do you draw the line between letting someone die in peace and keeping them alive by artificial means?
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If they are paying for it, the limit is their pocketbook.
Your idea of stuffing her STUNK. Literally.
 
D

dems4me

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Charles said:
If they are paying for it, the limit is their pocketbook.
Your idea of stuffing her STUNK. Literally.
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I think she was speaking hypothetically sweetie. :wink:
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

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Charles said:
Really?? You sure? She sounded serious to me and she never clowns around.
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No, I was serious. When do we call it a day with regard to life support, and who gets to make that decision. Because that's what this case is really about.

The Republicans are pissing me off because they (at least Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh) keep screaming, "It's not life support!! All they're doing is feeding her!!!" But the fact remains that, without this method of artificial feeding, Terri Schiavo will die. Which puts feeding tubes in the category of life support. They act like Terri is being held down and prevented from getting in her car and driving to McDonald's. Or throwing a steak on the grill.

This is the first time I've seen this kind of hysteria coming out of my beloved Republicans and, I have to tell you, it's really opened my eyes.

But the question remains: at what point do we say artifical life is wrong and who gets to make the decision?
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

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Charles said:
Who has been paying for her care?
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She's in a Hospice so it's possible the state is paying. But there was a malpractice suit that netted, like, $1.3 million or something for her medical care.
 
Ken King

Ken King

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vraiblonde said:
No, I was serious. When do we call it a day with regard to life support, and who gets to make that decision. Because that's what this case is really about.
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Right now it is determined by the laws of the various states with personal options like an advanced declaration for refusal of medical treatment or a DNR declaration. What I see as missing is a "right to die".

But the question remains: at what point do we say artifical life is wrong and who gets to make the decision?
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"Artificial life", would the use of organ transplants fall into this grouping? How about artificial insemination? What about external influences of drugs to extend life. How about some of the concepts of genetic engineering to remove genetic defects before life begins? Have the advances of medical ability given every malady the potential or hope for recovery?
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

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Ken King said:
"Artificial life", would the use of organ transplants fall into this grouping? How about artificial insemination? What about external influences of drugs to extend life. How about some of the concepts of genetic engineering to remove genetic defects before life begins? Have the advances of medical ability given every malady the potential or hope for recovery?
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This is what I'm asking. At what point to we say enough is enough? And who has the right to make that decision on behalf of someone who can't make it for themself?
 
D

dems4me

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Christy said:
:offtopic:

But.... Is she dead yet? :shrug:
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Yes, can't you tell she's dead:confused:

More alarming, can't you tell she has been deceased for 15 years :shrug: :lol:

j/k - can you be a little more specific in what you are referring to by the word "dead" :huggy: If not, I fear this will bring up the argument about some folks saying she's already dead and gone and folks like me that say she doesn't appear dead at all :shrug: :killingme: :huggy:




:lol:
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
This is VERY, VERY SIMPLE...

No one knows what Terri wants but to paraphrase George, lets err on the side of life. What is wrong with that?
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NOTHING. Nothing is wrong with it EXCEPT that the ONLY vote that matters says she didn't want to be kept this way.

The ONLY vote that matters.

THAT is the law.

Allegations have been made against him.

Movement to change custody has been made.

Time and time and time again.

And every time, EVERY SINGLE time, the courts have ruled that Michael Shciavo is just fine in his capacity as her sole guardian and sole representative.

Do you people understand that if you get your way then the state and feds can waltz in and take away your spousal rights FOR NO REASON? Ay any time? Maybe your neighbor accussed you of beating your wife? You say you're innocent eh? Well, certainly the courts will straighten things out, right?

Oh, you mean the same courts that YOU want to rule an innocent man as guilty? Those courts?

Do you understand that if you get your way that the state and feds will be able to fox trot right in there (you want them to be able to do any dance you see fit, yes?) and TAKE your kids? Say two of your neighbors claim you beat lil' Jr. And didn't make him do his homework.

Well, you're innocent, yes? Why, the law will protect you. The law will straighten this right out.

Sure they will.

I'm SURE of it because they only condemned an innocent man just this once, in that one single little Terri case, right? They only denied his rights and responsibilty this one little, tiny time, yes?

RIGHT????


While you all are condeming Schiavo, with NO evidence, tell me this could NEVER happen.

Tell me we are all better off with a standing federal court precedent that says the feds trump state law and state appeals.

I'll wait.



WAKE UP
 
D

dems4me

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Larry Gude said:
NOTHING. Nothing is wrong with it EXCEPT that the ONLY vote that matters says she didn't want to be kept this way.

The ONLY vote that matters.

THAT is the law.

Allegations have been made against him.

Movement to change custody has been made.

Time and time and time again.

And every time, EVERY SINGLE time, the courts have ruled that Michael Shciavo is just fine in his capacity as her sole guardian and sole representative.

Do you people understand that if you get your way then the state and feds can waltz in and take away your spousal rights FOR NO REASON? Ay any time? Maybe your neighbor accussed you of beating your wife? You say you're innocent eh? Well, certainly the courts will straighten things out, right?

Oh, you mean the same courts that YOU want to rule an innocent man as guilty? Those courts?

Do you understand that if you get your way that the state and feds will be able to fox trot right in there (you want them to be able to do any dance you see fit, yes?) and TAKE your kids? Say two of your neighbors claim you beat lil' Jr. And didn't make him do his homework.

Well, you're innocent, yes? Why, the law will protect you. The law will straighten this right out.

Sure they will.

I'm SURE of it because they only condemned an innocent man just this once, in that one single little Terri case, right? They only denied his rights and responsibilty this one little, tiny time, yes?

RIGHT????


While you all are condeming Schiavo, with NO evidence, tell me this could NEVER happen.

Tell me we are all better off with a standing federal court precedent that says the feds trump state law and state appeals.

I'll wait.



WAKE UP
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Sweetie.... what if her parents had said the last conversation she had with them stated she wanted to live? If the parents were really being deceptive, etc... wouldn't they have gone that route? Just an idea. No need for lengthy debate or anything, I've got loads of work today. :huggy:
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

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dems4me said:
what if her parents had said the last conversation she had with them stated she wanted to live?
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DEMS! Please pay attention! The question AGAIN is:

How far do we go before we officially pronounce someone dead, and WHO gets to make the decision on behalf of someone who can't speak for themselves?????
:banghead:

Which leads me to a poll.......
 
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