the moral chicken and egg

Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
This_person said:
I didn't say it was easy, nor always attainable. Just that it is what it is. People will act out of selfish beliefs, but when they do they're not acting morally - they're acting selfishly. When someone is doing something purely for the knowledge of right, regardless of the personal cost, they are acting morally. They are glorifying their diety, not for the gain, but because it's right.
Click to expand...

but they need not be religious to do good .... I mean when an atheist holds open a door for an old lady, why would it be better or worse then when a christian does it?
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
tommyjones said:
you can say those two things together a million times and it wont make them the same.
morality is independant from religion, and religion can exist without morality.
Click to expand...
Now, when did I say every religion exists purely in morality?
I mean all those catholic preists were religious, but also morally repugnant.
Click to expand...
Yep, those religious people acted in immoral manners. I don't see your point. (or, rather, I do, but I'm trying to get you to see that the two do NOT go hand in hand)
and you are making our point that people who are religious are moral for the fear of punishment/want of the reward of enternal life, therefore they are doing it for selfishness
Click to expand...
No, I'm making the point that when people act out of fear of the stick, or hope for the carrot - when that is their motivation - they are not acting out of morals. I am NOT saying that all religious people are moral people. I'm saying morals are derived from religious teachings - the foundation of right vs. wrong.
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
This_person said:
I didn't say it was easy, nor always attainable. Just that it is what it is. People will act out of selfish beliefs, but when they do they're not acting morally - they're acting selfishly. When someone is doing something purely for the knowledge of right, regardless of the personal cost, they are acting morally. They are glorifying their diety, not for the gain, but because it's right.
Click to expand...

well, i was right with ya till you jumped to the last part.....

and i dont see how you can claim its not for gain if you are getting an eternal life from acting morally under your plan
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
This_person said:
Now, when did I say every religion exists purely in morality?Yep, those religious people acted in immoral manners. I don't see your point. (or, rather, I do, but I'm trying to get you to see that the two do NOT go hand in hand)No, I'm making the point that when people act out of fear of the stick, or hope for the carrot - when that is their motivation - they are not acting out of morals. I am NOT saying that all religious people are moral people. I'm saying morals are derived from religious teachings - the foundation of right vs. wrong.
Click to expand...

there is no stick or carrot for atheists, only being. For christians the stick is hell and the carrot enternal life with god. How can you not see that?
 
T

toppick08

Guest
tommyjones said:
there is no stick or carrot for atheists, only being. For christians the stick is hell and the carrot enternal life with god. How can you not see that?
Click to expand...

Tommy, just a question. What other faith(religion) has the way to happiness?
 
T

toppick08

Guest
tommyjones said:
taoism basically says that you attain happiness by being in a spiritual equalibriem with the world.

Budhism talks about enlightenment

jews talk about the same heaven as christians



whats your point?
Click to expand...

Who is the alpha and omega? Can you or Xaquin44 prove any of Christ's teachings are wrong?
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
toppick08 said:
Who is the alpha and omega? Can you or Xaquin44 prove any of Christ's teachings are wrong?
Click to expand...

that has absolutly nothing to do with the question you were asking. what was your point from before?



can you prove any of them are true? of couse not, so we are right back where we started.
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
toppick08 said:
No, You pull them from the New Testament. Not from us sinners.
Click to expand...

I probably have .... I'm kind of busy now, so it'll have to do.

either way, Old Testament can be compared against New Testament .... it's all theoreticlly (sp. I know) gods word anyway.
 
T

toppick08

Guest
tommyjones said:
why, cuz none of you can understand or relay the meaning without contradiciton either?
Click to expand...

Jesus relayed the Message to all of us. Pick any version you desire. It's all the same. Only 1 person walked His Earth without sin. And we will ALL stand before Him one day..........The Word of God says it, not me.
 
2ndAmendment

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
toppick08 said:
Jesus relayed the Message to all of us. Pick any version you desire. It's all the same. Only 1 person walked His Earth without sin. And we will ALL stand before Him one day..........The Word of God says it, not me.
Click to expand...

They won't accept the Bible. They are best ignored.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top