There is only one God

[brendar buhl]

...There are many that believe that Allah and the God of the Bible are the same. The Jews and Christians have the same God; Allah isn't the same. As Bill Keller points out; read the attributes of the God of the Old and New Testaments and the attributes of Allah and they are very different. While the God of the Bible has His vengeful side, He is a loving Father that has provided reconciliation between man and Him by coming as Jesus as the only sacrifice needed. Allah is describe as only a vengeful god exacting retribution without any reconciliatory path. While the God of the Bible has extracted retribution, He has always provided reconciliation. Allah extracts retribution and man has to find a way to appease him.

I think this is crap. You are saying that the God of Christianity and the God of Judaism are the same but only the God worshipped by Christianity has provided a savior not the God worshipped by the Jews. If you get rid of the Savior then the God of Judaism seems an awful lot like the God of Islam. He requires perfection from imperfect beings and provides no way of attaining perfection other than a very long list of impossible rules. You are also looking at Islam through the lens of a 21st century white evangelist. If you talk to a Muslim he will show you that there are parts of the Koran that describe a loving God. We all know that the Bible has many descriptions of God that don't seem loving at all.

I'm just saying that your perspective might be a bit narrow even if it matches Keller’s perfectly. If we only listen to people who agree with us 100% then there's really no use of listening to anyone.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I think this is crap. You are saying that the God of Christianity and the God of Judaism are the same but only the God worshipped by Christianity has provided a savior not the God worshipped by the Jews.

I made no such assertion. The God of the Jews and the God of Christians is the same God. The difference is Jews do not believe the Messiah has come yet. Christians know the Messiah has come and He is Y'shua, Jesus. Check out Jews for Jesus, http://jewsforjesus.org/

If you get rid of the Savior then the God of Judaism seems an awful lot like the God of Islam. He requires perfection from imperfect beings and provides no way of attaining perfection other than a very long list of impossible rules. You are also looking at Islam through the lens of a 21st century white evangelist. If you talk to a Muslim he will show you that there are parts of the Koran that describe a loving God. We all know that the Bible has many descriptions of God that don't seem loving at all.

The God of the Old Testament and Allah seem very similar with some exceptions. But, the God of the Old Testament always had a way of repentance and covering of sin through sacrifice. Break a commandment, make a sacrifice. But there are many Old Testament examples of God accepting obedience as righteousness. The New Testament brings a new covenant; forgiveness through grace by faith in the final sacrifice needed by Jesus to atone for all sin for all those that accept it. One of the ways Christian missionaries win Muslims to Christ is contrasting the Love of the God of the Bible and His provision of salvation to the exacting nature proclaimed of Allah by the Qur'an.

I'm just saying that your perspective might be a bit narrow even if it matches Keller’s perfectly. If we only listen to people who agree with us 100% then there's really no use of listening to anyone.

It is seldom, but I don't always agree with Bill Keller. I find that what he teaches follows scripture very closely. Also remember that Jesus is the One who said the way is narrow.

Matthew 7:13-14

13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

 

[nhboy]

Quoting of me fixed. You're welcome.

I am a Christian. I am doing my best to follow the Great Commission of Jesus to all Christians.

So when it comes to discussing Christianity, salvation, God, or similar topics, the answer to your question is "No."


This statement was made Nov. 20, 2003, during the joint press conference in England with Prime Minister Tony Blair. A reporter noted Bush has frequently expressed the view that freedom is a gift from "the Almighty," but questioned whether Bush believes "Muslims worship the same Almighty" as the president and other Christians do.

"I do say that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every person. I also condition it by saying freedom is not America's gift to the world," Bush replied. "It's much greater than that, of course. And I believe we worship the same god." This is from a report in the London Telegraph.

How's that sparky?

Thank you. I tried but couldn't find that reference, do you have a link?


As for President Bush's remarks in that press conference (if true of course);

 

[brendar buhl]

...The difference is Jews do not believe the Messiah has come yet. Christians know the Messiah has come and He is Y'shua, Jesus. Check out Jews for Jesus...

Jews for Jesus? I’m a member. Judaism believes in a messiah alright, but it is not the same as what you and I think of as messiah. Orthodox and Hasidic Jews believe that the messiah will come to show them how to make proper sacrifices since the destruction of the temple. You see, they are not looking for a redeemer but rather someone who is going to restore their old way of doing things. If we look at Judaism through the lens of evangelical Christianity we see a definite connection to Christianity, but if you look at it as a Jew in Palestine (or Brooklyn for that matter), raised in the orthodoxy of that religion, it is really quite different. They don’t tend to define themselves in Christian terms.

...the God of the Old Testament always had a way of repentance and covering of sin through sacrifice...

Often the sacrifice was that the person committing the sin was killed. There were times in ancient Judaism when people were killed violently for partaking in forbidden behavior. This was done because the God of Israel had commanded it to be done. There were times (and you can find this in the Bible-I’m not making it up) when men and their wives and their children were stoned to death because of the father’s sin. There was not always a way of forgiveness. Sometimes people were just killed, at the command of God, because they did bad things. I know that you are well versed enough in scripture to know this. Please don’t make me interject long passages of scripture.

...Also remember that Jesus is the One who said the way is narrow...

Yes the way is narrow, but the mind doesn’t have to be. If you were to compare Jesus with the Jewish leaders of 1st century Palestine he would have seemed not only open minded, but down right radical.

The problem with your point of view is that you have drawn a line in the sand concerning what other people understand about God. Almost everyone on this planet who affiliates themselves with a religion is trying to figure out who God is and it usually falls within the context of where they live and by whom they were raised. You are saying that what the Jews understand about God fits snugly enough with your ideas but what the Muslims have understood about God does not fit into your world quite so nicely. You can somehow make accommodations for the Jew because he is the religious ancestor of the Christian. We are all trying to figure out the same God who is (in case you haven’t noticed) not so easy to figure out.

 

[Midnightrider]

You're kidding right? You're comparing our military, who TARGET military targets (NOT CIVILIANS), to the cowards that would butcher dozens while blessing a man and woman at their wedding? The "shiat" just reached it's limited depth.



Aren't you expressing what YOU think is right? Who the heck do you think you are?

yes, that would be a joke there sherlock
but to the people we bomb, they dont see a difference.

and i am not telling anyone anything about their god. to me what you choose to believe is completely up to you. Just stop telling everyone else they are wrong!!!

 

[2ndAmendment]

Jews for Jesus? I’m a member.

Good. I have been trying to witness to a friend who is a Jew. His wife is a Baptist. Any suggestions?

Judaism believes in a messiah alright, but it is not the same as what you and I think of as messiah. Orthodox and Hasidic Jews believe that the messiah will come to show them how to make proper sacrifices since the destruction of the temple. You see, they are not looking for a redeemer but rather someone who is going to restore their old way of doing things. If we look at Judaism through the lens of evangelical Christianity we see a definite connection to Christianity, but if you look at it as a Jew in Palestine (or Brooklyn for that matter), raised in the orthodoxy of that religion, it is really quite different. They don’t tend to define themselves in Christian terms.

I am sure an orthodox Jew does not define themselves in Christian terms. Of course the messiah they are expecting is a bit different from the Messiah that is described in the Old Testament. The Jews of Y'shua's earthly days were as blind to scripture and many are today.

Often the sacrifice was that the person committing the sin was killed. There were times in ancient Judaism when people were killed violently for partaking in forbidden behavior. This was done because the God of Israel had commanded it to be done. There were times (and you can find this in the Bible-I’m not making it up) when men and their wives and their children were stoned to death because of the father’s sin. There was not always a way of forgiveness. Sometimes people were just killed, at the command of God, because they did bad things. I know that you are well versed enough in scripture to know this. Please don’t make me interject long passages of scripture.

I understand that, but there are also many accounts in the Old Testament where men of God sinned and their repentance or subsequent obedience was reckoned as righteousness. As you said, "I know that you are well versed enough in scripture to know this. Please don’t make me interject long passages of scripture."

Yes the way is narrow, but the mind doesn’t have to be. If you were to compare Jesus with the Jewish leaders of 1st century Palestine he would have seemed not only open minded, but down right radical.

The problem with your point of view is that you have drawn a line in the sand concerning what other people understand about God. Almost everyone on this planet who affiliates themselves with a religion is trying to figure out who God is and it usually falls within the context of where they live and by whom they were raised. You are saying that what the Jews understand about God fits snugly enough with your ideas but what the Muslims have understood about God does not fit into your world quite so nicely. You can somehow make accommodations for the Jew because he is the religious ancestor of the Christian. We are all trying to figure out the same God who is (in case you haven’t noticed) not so easy to figure out.

I don't see myself as being narrow minded. Obviously you see me that way. :shrug: Jesus may have been "open minded" in your opinion, I see Him as not being legalistic. I am not legalistic. I don't think you have to call God as Jehovah or YHWH or Yaweh or Y'howah. I don't think that you have to speak in tongues to be saved or indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I am not a "cookie cutter" Christian. I am willing to let God be God.

On the other hand, I do not see a correlation between Allah and YHWH. Maybe that is my blindness; maybe you seeing a correlation is your blindness. I certainly agree with everything in the Bible even if I don't understand it completely. As Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 13:12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

I may be narrow minded in that I believe the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God. I pray that I do not have a hard heart which is the condemnation of the followers of Moses given in the Bible.

 

[brendar buhl]

Good. I have been trying to witness to a friend who is a Jew. His wife is a Baptist. Any suggestions?.

The Jew to Baptist conversion would be tricky. What I have found is that the observant Jew can teach me a lot more about my Christianity then I can teach them about their Judaism. Being willing to learn from him will set up a great relationship where you become vulnerable to him. This also happens to be a great way to show the Love of Christ. As you learn about what he believes from his point of reference (perspective is everything) you can begin to share your beliefs from a more Jewish perspective. It may be a long road with frustrating setbacks but in the end it will be worth it.

Concerning the Muslims and Allah: I think that there are other people in the world who are searching for the truth about God and they are looking within their culture for answers. I'm a Christian mostly because I was raised in a Christian Culture. When I began to search for answers about God I naturally searched with in the confines of Christianity. Islam and Allah I don't understand, but that is mostly because it is outside of my culture.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The Jew to Baptist conversion would be tricky. What I have found is that the observant Jew can teach me a lot more about my Christianity then I can teach them about their Judaism. Being willing to learn from him will set up a great relationship where you become vulnerable to him. This also happens to be a great way to show the Love of Christ. As you learn about what he believes from his point of reference (perspective is everything) you can begin to share your beliefs from a more Jewish perspective. It may be a long road with frustrating setbacks but in the end it will be worth it.

We have been friends for a long time. He respects my opinion. He says it is just very hard to reject so many years of tradition.

Concerning the Muslims and Allah: I think that there are other people in the world who are searching for the truth about God and they are looking within their culture for answers. I'm a Christian mostly because I was raised in a Christian Culture. When I began to search for answers about God I naturally searched with in the confines of Christianity. Islam and Allah I don't understand, but that is mostly because it is outside of my culture.

My human self would like to think that all ways lead to the same God. I would love to think that many I have known that were not Christians and died were in heaven. But I find that believing all ways lead to the same God inconsistent with the Bible and the instruction of Jesus.

Matthew 28:19-20

19"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

If all ways lead to the same God, then Jesus would not have given us the great commission.

 

[PsyOps]

Just stop telling everyone else they are wrong!!!

You're wrong that I have been telling you you're wrong.

oooopsss!!!!!

 

[ItalianScallion]

...Just stop telling everyone else they are wrong!!!

This is why Jesus came to earth. Everyone CAN'T be right when their opinion of God differs. When Vrai posted "Do you believe in God", I responded yes but with a clarification. I believe in the God of the Bible and no other. Allah is a word for god but it IS NOT the real "God". Allah is not revealed to the muslims as Father, Son & Holy Spirit so it is not compatible with Christianity. No one but the true God is described that way. Call Christians & Jesus narrow minded if you want but He commanded us to tell others when they are on the path to a different God. I am not doing it to act "holier than thou" (though some do) nor am I better than any of you, but when you meet Jesus and find out that what I said was true and you can't change your destination, what then? The devil loves those comments some of you make. "Maybe we all believe in the same god but in different ways" NOT! "Everyone will be saved in the end" NOT! Only one person ever died and brought Himself back from the dead and that's why Jesus is the only true God and what He said is the absolute truth by which ALL will be judged. Of course it sounds narrow minded, but if we could get to God anyway we want, we wouldn't have needed Jesus or anyone to help us. Wise up friends, we're all one heartbeat away from meeting Him.

 

[kris31280]

This is all I got...

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/jesus_off.jsp

 

[Starman3000m]

If all ways lead to the same God, then Jesus would not have given us the great commission.

Only one person ever died and brought Himself back from the dead and that's why Jesus is the only true God and what He said is the absolute truth by which ALL will be judged. Of course it sounds narrow minded, but if we could get to God anyway we want, we wouldn't have needed Jesus or anyone to help us. Wise up friends, we're all one heartbeat away from meeting Him.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

Greetings Folks,

I have shared my testimony on other Internet sites in the course of various discussions, however, this seems to be the appropriate time to post the message of how I came to comprehend that Y'shua (Jesus) is truly the Son of the Living God:

Starman's Testimony:

As a youngster, I had always believed in God, as my family had a Christian upbringing. (My father was a minister in an Assemblies of God Church).

When I was eight years old, my dad died as a result of leukemia. I remember as I cried in the hospital room that a comforting thought came to me with an assurance that although my dad had just died, "God would be my Father." As I grew older, I still believed in God, yet I did not know Jesus. In fact, I thought that Jesus was just "second in command" and whenever I wanted to pray to God I didn't need to involve Jesus. It was my belief at that time that I could bypass Jesus and just go straight to the "main man" (God).

Yes, I thought that just because I believed in God it made me a "Christian." Yet, with a belief that God existed, I was still miserable and had a sense of emptiness within. What's worse, there was a raging anger that would flare up at the slightest provocation. When I married, in 1973, the anger would be directed toward my wife and for the first three years our marriage was a living hell and I was the cause of it. I blamed my wife for the problems and it was evident that our marriage was falling apart.

As I came under conviction by the Holy Spirit, I realized that I needed God in my life and I would ask my wife to attend church so that we could learn more about God. My wife was an atheist but, on the other hand - in my claim to be a Christian, I can really see now that I was a very poor testimony to her. Finally, in my desperation and hopeless feeling, I prayed to God admitting that I needed to get close to Him and that I wanted to straighten out my life. I told God that my wife did not believe in Him but that I did and if it were necessary I would divorce my wife in order to get my life straightened out with Him.

During this search for God, I was listening to a Christian radio program and sent for a book offer entitled, "How do we know there is a God?," by John Warwick Montgomery. Upon receiving the book, I became excited because it had answers to many questions that I had always wondered about. My excitement became overwhelming with each page of scriptural answers and I hastily went to a room where my wife was and began telling her about the book and asked if she would read it with me. I kept going on and on about what this book had to say about God up to the point that it annoyed my wife and she turned and yelled, "Quit harping at me!" I then turned and walked out of the room and said, "Well, God, I guess that's your answer, I will divorce my wife." I actually had made up my mind right then and it was settled in my heart that this was God's answer. As I set the book down, I suddenly felt as if I was in a vacuum and there was a feeling of stillness and silence surrounding me. I then heard the most crystal clear voice speak these words, "Ask Diane if she believes Jesus was The Son of God." Without hesitation, I returned to the room where my wife was and said, "Diane, do you believe Jesus was The Son of God?" She suddenly turned to me with a startled look on her face, raised her hand, and said to wait, that we could talk about it later.

As she recounted the incident, Diane told me that when she heard the words spoken to her, she suddenly realized that she had been denying God all along and she became aware that this was a point that she had to make a decision. She relates that it also seemed like a veil had been lifted from in front of her eyes and had the awareness that if she said, Yes, then everything would be alright; but if she said, No, then she would not have another chance to decide and God would not approach her again. Later that evening, Diane said she believed Jesus was The Son of God. We both received Jesus as Lord and Saviour as a result of God's Divine Intervention during a time of crisis in our marriage. Without a doubt, I attest to the truth that one cannot bypass Jesus. It is clear in scripture where Jesus proclaims, "I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." (John 14:6)

May God, our Creator, receive the glory for His mercy in our lives through Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and thank you for reading this testimony.

Posted a few years ago at:
http://www.christian-faith.com/testimonies/mike-ramirez.html

 

[itsbob]

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

During this search for God, I was listening to a Christian radio program and sent for a book offer entitled, "How do we know there is a God?," by John Warwick Montgomery. Upon receiving the book, I became excited because it had answers to many questions that I had always wondered about. My excitement became overwhelming with each page of scriptural answers and I hastily went to a room where my wife was and began telling her about the book and asked if she would read it with me. I

And how much did this Chrsitian that was willing to sacrifice everything for your salvation charge you for this book?

John Montgomery got the saving(s) he wanted.

 

[Kain99]

And how much did this Chrsitian that was willing to sacrifice everything for your salvation charge you for this book?

John Montgomery got the saving(s) he wanted.

Even Christians need to make a living. Geesh!

 

[itsbob]

Even Christians need to make a living. Geesh!

Then they should get jobs, and not take advantage of other Christians. how many of these so called God Fearing men and women get rich off of others beliefs? You ever see some of the houses these people live in? The toys they have, the vacations they take?

I was driving down 235 last week, and saw a sign on an old building.. "Restoration Bible Church" and thought.. Here I am, trying to think of a business to start and there it is.. (I think God spoke to me) a Church. No overhead to speak of, I can set up a tent on Sundays, and send out my minions to pick up people that can't drive themselves. It's taxfree (28% more in my pocket) and I don't even have to keep books to tell people how much I'm REALLY making.

All I have to do is convincingly read the bible to the masses, with conviction.. Tell people that I talked to God, and he said...."... put daily devotional phrase here.." and collect the tithing that is commanded by God, and a law of the land as is written in the Bible.

It's a shame I'm too good person to try to rip people off like that.

I'm sure there are real women and men of God out there, I don't think you are going to find them on the radio, or TV giving their sermons from basketball stadiums or multi-million dollar entertainment complexes that they call "church". Nor do I think they will try to sell you your way to salvation,"Buy this book, it will show you the way" (isn't that the Bible that you can get for free anywhere??) or buy this prayer cloth.. or buy this holy water.. or buy this... hair from the Donky that Mary rode into Bethlehem.

Mother Theresa was a true person of God, doing God's work. She asked for no money, no notoriety, she just quietly went about her life doing the work of God on a daily basis. She didn't peddle books, or bits of her clothing. She didn't offer to pray for you for $15. She didn't get rich, didn't have a Ferrari sitting in the garage of her multi million dollar vacation home in Bermuda.

SHE was a true believer, and follower of her faith. In her shadow the rest should be ashamed.

 

[Starman3000m]

And how much did this Chrsitian that was willing to sacrifice everything for your salvation charge you for this book?

John Montgomery got the saving(s) he wanted.

lol, I know where you are coming from and I certainly agree that there are some who have selfishly and greedily turned God's House into a "den of thieves." But Not All!

The Book was FREE for the asking; just like God's Salvation.

I did have a chance to write to the author, John Warwick Montgomery, and related my testimony. He wrote back and gave Praise to God and did not ask for a cent.

The book he wrote has been out of print for several years but I would make a copy of it available Free to anyone here who asks.

Regards

 

[itsbob]

lol, I know where you are coming from and I certainly agree that there are some who have selfishly and greedily turned God's House into a "den of thieves." But Not All!

The Book was FREE for the asking; just like God's Salvation.

I did have a chance to write to the author, John Warwick Montgomery, and related my testimony. He wrote back and gave Praise to God and did not ask for a cent.

The book he wrote has been out of print for several years but I would make a copy of it available Free to anyone here who asks.

Regards

Thank you for the clarification. For me anyways, it gives the story/ testimony a little more meaning.

 

[PsyOps]

Then they should get jobs, and not take advantage of other Christians. how many of these so called God Fearing men and women get rich off of others beliefs? You ever see some of the houses these people live in? The toys they have, the vacations they take?

I was driving down 235 last week, and saw a sign on an old building.. "Restoration Bible Church" and thought.. Here I am, trying to think of a business to start and there it is.. (I think God spoke to me) a Church. No overhead to speak of, I can set up a tent on Sundays, and send out my minions to pick up people that can't drive themselves. It's taxfree (28% more in my pocket) and I don't even have to keep books to tell people how much I'm REALLY making.

All I have to do is convincingly read the bible to the masses, with conviction.. Tell people that I talked to God, and he said...."... put daily devotional phrase here.." and collect the tithing that is commanded by God, and a law of the land as is written in the Bible.

It's a shame I'm too good person to try to rip people off like that.

I'm sure there are real women and men of God out there, I don't think you are going to find them on the radio, or TV giving their sermons from basketball stadiums or multi-million dollar entertainment complexes that they call "church". Nor do I think they will try to sell you your way to salvation,"Buy this book, it will show you the way" (isn't that the Bible that you can get for free anywhere??) or buy this prayer cloth.. or buy this holy water.. or buy this... hair from the Donky that Mary rode into Bethlehem.

Mother Theresa was a true person of God, doing God's work. She asked for no money, no notoriety, she just quietly went about her life doing the work of God on a daily basis. She didn't peddle books, or bits of her clothing. She didn't offer to pray for you for $15. She didn't get rich, didn't have a Ferrari sitting in the garage of her multi million dollar vacation home in Bermuda.

SHE was a true believer, and follower of her faith. In her shadow the rest should be ashamed.

Although I think it’s unfair to put such a blanket accusation on all churches and ministers, I have to agree that I lost my confidence in the “church system” (for lack of better term). I like to think of myself as a man of deep faith and dare not assume who is saved and who is not, but I have seen too many churches in my day that have done nothing more than steal from their congregation.

The one thing you left out of the Mother Theresa thing was she was probably the richest person on earth. And everyone knows what I mean.

 

[brendar buhl]

I hope that this doesn't offend anyone but I tend to write people off when they claim that they hear voices.

 

[Starman3000m]

I hope that this doesn't offend anyone but I tend to write people off when they claim that they hear voices.

lol - No offense taken here. You have good reason to feel this way as I would too. It's what the "voices" say that is to be questioned in any case. The God of the Holy Bible verbally spoke in an audible voice in both the Old and New Testament accounts and since He is the God of Truth, He is capable of doing the same today.