Starman3000m
New Member
Midnightrider said:
Hmmm... Really? How sure are you about that or is that what you have been taught to believe?
There is only one God
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
- Start date
Hmmm... Really? How sure are you about that or is that what you have been taught to believe?
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
god is godStarman3000m said:
you say yourself that islam teaches that the christians and jews are misrepresenting god's words. so its the same god
is the god of the jews the same god? they surely dont believe that Jesus was the son of god. their book is vastly different, but we accept that they are talking about the same god.
why not with islam?
Toxick
Splat
Midnightrider said:
This is always what I've intepreted it as. All three, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all follow the God of Abraham.
Muslims follow the word of Mohommad.
Where the Christians have rejected Mohammad.
And the Jews have rejected Jesus.
Obviously the differences are far greater than that (e.g. Muslims consider Isa (Jesus) a mere prophet, and are affronted by the concept that He's the son of Allah), but boil it all down, it's three seperate views of the same entity.
If I remember my Comparative Religion Studies correctly, Islam also has versions of the same narratives in the Koran, such as The Creation, Cain and Abel (Qain and Habib, I think they call them.. something like that), and even have a version of Revelation which parallels the Christian version. Of course in their version, guess who are the ones saved and vindicated.... And they honor a huge list of the same prophets (Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Elijah, Solomon, John the Baptist, and a bunch of others).
However, the personality of God is vastly different for each distinct religion. And the same could be said for various denominations within each.
Toxick
Splat
PsyOps said:
I've done this.
And the answer was "yes, that's what we believe".
Of course the people I've discussed this with weren't bug-eyed zealots with various devices strapped to their torsi.
In the Koran, Christians and Jews are referred to as "People of the Book". Not The Infidel or Kafir. The People of the Book should granted leniency in various judgements, (judgements, meaning slaughter and mayhem).
However, the Koran I read was written in English, and I will acknowledge that there is a possiblity that I got a more moderate and toned-down translation of the Koran, rather than the one distributed amongst more extremist factions within Muslim circles.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Nucklesack said:
I don't think you will hear Shi'ites say they worship and different God than the Sunnis and vice versa. Nor will you hear different Christian denominations claiming the others worship different Gods. They only differ in ideology. But you will be hard-pressed to find a Muslim say they are worshiping the same God as Christians and vice versa.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
PsyOps said:
I dont think so, in fact i think only zealots would argue they are different and only to dehumanize the other side.....
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
I know, i did, thats why i said "I Think..."PsyOps said:
Starman3000m
New Member
Nucklesack said:
Very True. This is a major "power struggle". Shi'a believe they have the exclusive and legitimate right of succession to lead the Islamic world through the blood-line lineage of Muhammad's daughter, Fatima, and her cousin/husband, Ali (Muhammad's nephew).
Sunni's believe they have been granted the legitimate right of succession to lead the Islamic world through Muhammad's father-in-law (Aisha's dad) who assumed "leadership" after Muhammad's death. Sunnis believe that the Caliphate is determined through an elected process and not blood lineage.
Sunni and Shi'a have engaged in this sectarian power struggle since the death of Muhammad in 632.
Yes, there are many "Christian" denominational divisions who have varying theological interpretations about one's relationship to God through Jesus and the right of which holds to the Truth, thus, divisiveness that will continue on as usual.
Organized religion has done the most to divide people and distort the simple Truth of God's Plan of Salvation.
Basically, of all the claims made about God by religious leaders and imposed upon mankind, the fact is: There Is Only One Truth.
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Starman3000m
New Member
Nucklesack said:I will agree with you there
Thanks Nucklesack.
Now, let's try evaluating Truth whereby There Is Only One Truth to the following:
1.) God Exists.
2.) God Does Not Exist.
3.) Jesus Is The Son of God.
4.) Jesus is Not The Son of God.
5.) Jesus Is The Saviour of mankind through His Atoning Blood.
6.) Salvation through Jesus is a lie and people must earn their own way to heaven.
7.) There will be an eternal destiny in either Heaven or Hell.
8.) Heaven and Hell Do Not exist.
9.) Mankind became separated from God through disobedience and subsequent transgression of God's Laws based upon the Ten Commandments.
10.) The Ten Commandments don't apply to mankind at all and can be disregarded. Man makes his own laws.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
Starman3000m said:
How about: "not knowing the truth, no human can truthfully answer these questions."
Starman3000m
New Member
Nucklesack said:
Fair Response Knucklesack.
All people who have a specific perspective on Truth that is different than someone else will gather with those who share the same perspective.
The fact still remains that There Is Still Only One Truth and that specific Truth Exists whether one concludes to believe it or not.
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Starman3000m
New Member
Midnightrider said:
Correct!
If God Exists, then Creation by a Supreme Being Is TRUE and Only that Creator God (no human) can reveal the Truth to mankind. Would God hold back The Truth about His Existence from the people He created?
If God does not exist, why is it that most humans have an inner desire to seek and worship a Supreme Deity while others make a conscious effort to find explanations to push the thought out of their intellectual mind and by doing so justify their denial?
No human can know the Truth unless Truth is Revealed; and,
There Is Only One Truth.
I heard this before, that there were some priest that were trying to partner per say with Muslims saying we all worship the same God and just use different names.2ndAmendment said:
In short they are misguided uneducated heretics trying to build the church!
They were saying that the secret name for God, the hundredth name that Mohammed whispered into the camel’s ear was Jesus Christ.
Hears the issue first Christianity predates Islam. More importantly that idols characteristics are no where near the same as Jesus Christ.
His divine characteristics - Jesus possessed the attributes which only God can have. His omnipotence is set forth in the statement found in Matthew 28:18. Furthermore, Jesus has power over sickness, nature, and death (Matthew 8:16; Matthew 8:23-27; John 11:43-44). The omniscience of Jesus is described in Paul's words in Colossians 2:2-3. Passages such as Mark 2:8 and John 1:48-49 confirm that Jesus knows everything. His omnipresence is disclosed in passages like Matthew 18:20 and Matthew 28:20. Jesus said, "Lo, I am with you always."
http://www.brfwitness.org/Articles/1983v18n6.htm
Existed before the beginning of time and still does.
Characteristics of Mohammad
Justice
Equality
Kindness to animals
Love for the poor
http://www.itsislam.net/articles/character_of_Prophet_Muhammad.asp
Basically a Dead human that plagiarized parts of the Bible and didnt want to bend the knee so he created his own God to suit himself.
Ever read how that faith was created?
he was born ca. 570 CE in the city of Mecca in Arabia.[8] He was orphaned at a young age and was brought up by his uncle, later worked mostly as a merchant, and was married by age 26. At some point, discontented with life in Mecca, he retreated to a cave in the surrounding mountains for meditation and reflection. According to Islamic tradition, it was here at age 40, in the month of Ramadan, where he received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event, Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" to Him (lit. islām)[9] is the only religion (dīn),[10] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, in the same vein as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and other prophets.[11][12][13]
Muhammad gained few followers early on, and was largely met with hostility from the tribes of Mecca; he was treated harshly and so were his followers. To escape persecution, Muhammad and his followers migrated to Yathrib (Medina)[14] in the year 622. This historic event, the Hijra, marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar. In Medina, Muhammad managed to unite the conflicting tribes, and after eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to ten thousand, conquered Mecca. In 632, on returning to Medina from his 'Farewell pilgrimage', Muhammad fell ill and died. By the time of his death, most of Arabia had converted to Islam.
You might want to listen to this too
Show Notes:
God is not Allah.
Why Christianity never took hold in Arabia.
Can you say heretic?
Bill Maher knows that you can’t know this.
Understand so you can believe, or believe so you can understand?
http://www.itsislam.net/articles/character_of_Prophet_Muhammad.asp
Starman3000m
New Member
Nucklesack said:
I see where you are going with this, Nucklesack, but, here is something to consider: All religions have a founder - just not the same one.
Still, There Is Only One Truth about God.
For example, Muhammad did not encounter the same God that Moses of the Old Testament did. Fact is, the Islamic Al'lah never even spoke directly to Muhammad; it was the "spirit-being" that appeared to him in the cave.
In many instances, The God of The Old Testament spoke directly and audibly to the Prophets and conveyed His Message through them. Also, in many of those instances, the Voice of God was heard by others nearby. In The New Testament, the Voice of God was heard by others, thus, witnessing the claim that Jesus was The Son of God.
Muhammad was a self-proclaimed prophet, ordained by the spirit-being. No one else was ever able to confirm that Al'lah bestowed that title to him.
Muhammad proclaimed "enough is Al'lah as a witness", thus giving him carte-blanche to set up a new religion and demand that others believe him - just because he said so! i.e. David Koresh; James Jones, Joseph Smith, and so-called "prophets" of all other religions.
The Islamic Al'lah is NOT the same God of the Old and New Testament accounts, nor are the Islamic prophets the same except by "similarily referenced names" only so as to appear legit.
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
The bottom line disproving ALL other religions is that Jesus died and came back from the dead on His own power and was witnessed by thousands of people. NO OTHER PERSON IN HISTORY CAN SAY THIS, nor has done it! That makes Christianity the only true belief system and the main reason why I follow it. I am not one of these who follow any belief system blindly. Like it or not, all the other "stuff" about caves, prophets, voices or revelations is irrelevant to that fact. Nothing Jesus said or did was as important as the resurrection. No other person could duplicate it. Ultimately, there are missing links or erroneous statements in the other "bibles" that can and have been proven false. There is no valid argument against this, like it or not. I've said before, the Bible isn't on trial here, we all are. I challenged anyone to try to disprove it.
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Well, Christians are GRATEFUL that Jesus came back from the DEAD, so does that make us a "Rock" band? Good comeback, Nucklesack!