Time to grow up and put your guns away

[AK-74me]

I guess you slept through your economics classes. The last thing FL wanted was tourists going somewhere else and taking their bucks with them. When it came down to a choice between tourist dollars and open carry, open carry lost.

Good open carry is a dumb idea for the most part, especially in today's age of hysteria over guns. I disagree with you about the % of people that get CCP/CCW's just because they want to be cool though.

Why don't we see a buch of inncidents of these people flying off the handle then?


My experience with people who ccw are that they are the people that go out of the way to avoid confrontation. You know the whole armed polite society notion?

 

[Bruzilla]

It is not that, you act like that if citizens are in public carrying guns people will be getting shot over minor arguments ect... Over 40 states are shall issue states, millions of gun owners carry a concealed weapon and you almost never hear about any incidents of these people breaking the laws.

However, there are several cases where they have been there to help save people and even have had their lives taken in trying to protect innocent people they don't even know.

People should have a choice.

I think that a valid statistic that gets missed is the number of people with permits who don't carry. If everyone who had a permit actually carried all the time, I'm sure the number of illegal shoitings would go up, but a lot of permit holders don't carry, and few carry all the time.

On the plus side, the presence of a large number of CCP holders certainly seems to be a deterrent to criminals. They can't tell who is armed and who isn't, and if they hear 1 in ten people have permits, the fact that maybe 1 in a hundred is actually armed doesn't matter much to them in their risk calculations.

 

[Xaquin44]

The Gobberment already does this .....

I know hehe

I'm saying, if everyone is walking around with a gun, how do we tell a person who will be responsible from a criminal?

Unless police will start asking for your licsense at random intervals while walking around the mall or some such thing.

 

[Ken King]

I know hehe

I'm saying, if everyone is walking around with a gun, how do we tell a person who will be responsible from a criminal?

Unless police will start asking for your licsense at random intervals while walking around the mall or some such thing.

The ones not committing a crime are the ones that aren't criminals, duh.

 

[Xaquin44]

The ones not committing a crime are the ones that aren't criminals, duh.

if you're being sarcastic, then cool hehe

if not however, then it's not like people walk around with huge signs that say 'I will be comitting a crime with my gun later today' or anything.

 

[Baja28]

if you're being sarcastic, then cool hehe

if not however, then it's not like people walk around with huge signs that say 'I will be comitting a crime with my gun later today' or anything.

Ok, how many headlines have you read with stories of criminals that end in "he had a ccw and the gun he used to commit this crime was obtained legally, making it a breeze for LEO's to track him down." ?????

 

[Ken King]

if you're being sarcastic, then cool hehe

if not however, then it's not like people walk around with huge signs that say 'I will be comitting a crime with my gun later today' or anything.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, as I thought that you were being. But I take it that you are serious about this. Giving people the right and ability to do something doesn't mean that they are going to do it. Look at cars, most, if not all, have spare tires and jacks, right? But many refuse to use them even when they need them and they will and are happy to wait for help. Others, like me, would rather take care of the problem should I need to rather then sitting around waiting for help to arrive.

 

[Xaquin44]

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, as I thought that you were being. But I take it that you are serious about this. Giving people the right and ability to do something doesn't mean that they are going to do it. Look at cars, most, if not all, have spare tires and jacks, right? But many refuse to use them even when they need them and they will and are happy to wait for help. Others, like me, would rather take care of the problem should I need to rather then sitting around waiting for help to arrive.

I wish you the best of luck Mr. Castle.

 

[Ken King]

I wish you the best of luck Mr. Castle.

Not carrying and never have, except when hunting.

 

[Xaquin44]

Not carrying and never have, except when hunting.

Same here.

also occasional target practice.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

The bad guys pick the time in the place, the only thing a good guy can do is be prepared....... all the time.

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Speaking for myself, I would rather have it and not need it; than need it and not have it. I just wish Maryland lawmakers would wise up and pass a "Shall-Issue" law for Maryland. What they aren't saying is the real reason they haven't yet,and that is; it's because of our proximity to D.C.; where innocents are shot every day.

IMO, if EVERYBODY had a permit to carry concealed, we would all be A LOT more courteous to one another, there wouldn't be as many reports of folks being assaulted, robbed or worse.

I compare our not having CCW in Maryland to new signal lights at intersections. We all know of at least one. Someone has to be killed at an intersection before a light is put up. The same goes for CCW for Marylanders.
How many more of us have to be shot, stabbed, etc., etc. or worse, before our "lawmakers" wise up?

Check this out: Maryland Shall Issue. Maryland has one of, if not THE highest rates of violent crimes in the U.S.. I know a few people who don't have a CCW but carry guns. I think the alternative if you're ever stopped in your car and the cop finds a gun either on your person or in your car; and you don't have a CCW; is A LOT better than the alternative.

"A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone."

 

[Bruzilla]

Good open carry is a dumb idea for the most part, especially in today's age of hysteria over guns. I disagree with you about the % of people that get CCP/CCW's just because they want to be cool though.

Why don't we see a buch of inncidents of these people flying off the handle then?


My experience with people who ccw are that they are the people that go out of the way to avoid confrontation. You know the whole armed polite society notion?

You don't see a lot of incidents for two reasons: first, these people aren't crazies or criminals. They are law abiding folks who are just carrying for the wrong reason. The second reason is these folks are in the definate minority of holders, I would say about 25% tops.

There was one guy I used to work for who is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. He's a former one-term Marine. He did his four years, got out, and has been trying to show people that he's a tough guy ever since. He loved to brag about how he always has a pistol in his car, loved to show his CCP to everyone and show you that he had a pistol on him when he carried, and always tried to steer every conversation to the "hey... I've got a pistol on me right now!" declaration. This was a guy who never handled cash, worked in an office building in an excellent part of town, lived in a very low crime area, and really had no reason to believe that his life would ever be in peril. I haven't yet seen the headline where he had shot someone, but I know it's just a matter of time until I do. A guy like this is just itching to try that gun out on someone, and all they need is the opportunity... and when that opportunity arises, I would never trust that guy to be a good judge of whether lethal force was needed. I've met lots of people like him, which is what worries me.

The folks with a justifyable reason to carry are nothing like that. You would never know most of them carry. They don't announce it, they don't brag about it, and they don't fantasize about shooting criminals. Most of these folks have been the victims of assaults and have a more realsitic view of how things go down in these situations. They understand that in a life or death confrontation with a robber or mugger, the first instinct will be to break away from the attacker and get clear, not stand there like Dirty Harry.

 

[Bruzilla]

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Speaking for myself, I would rather have it and not need it; than need it and not have it.

"A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone."

That's how I used to think until I finally got my permit. Then I realized that there's a one in a million chance that I'm ever going to need it, be able to use it, and be able to use it effectively, and at that point I didn't see all the hassle of carrying as worthwhile.

I got jumped by a drunk Marine while on guard duty in Sigonella, and it happened so fast that I never once thought of the pistol I was wearing. I was focused on getting the guy off me and smashing his face while I prevented him from hurting me. The first I thought of my pistol was when the SP officer came by and asked why I hadn't shot the guy, and I told him "it never crossed my mind."

Yes, it is cool to think about another Ruby's Cafeteria situation... where a gunman comes in and starts shooting while you with your concealed pistol get up and quickly dispatch the evildoer to the accolades of the survivors. But that fantasy is about as realistic as shooting that winning basket at the buzzer or throwing the last second pass to win the Super Bowl. You stand a better chance at winning the lottery, so I think folks should ask themselves if they are really worried about the risk to their safety or are they just wanting to carry to be cool, or look tough, or empower themselves, etc.

 

[Larry Gude]

You...

what is this knife crap? If everyone can carry a gun, no one will be using a knife anymore. Look, I'm all for personal rights, but I still think this is a bad idea.

Unless you can find some way to regulate who gets to carry a gun then it's a poor notion. Also, even if you're a model citizen on paper, doesn't mean you aren't a sadistic ####### that shouldn't be within ten feet of a sharp stick much less a gun.

...say that, but, what's it based on? Some notion that there are all these crazy, irresponsible people out there, totally behaving themselves, somehow, and just waiting, patiently, to be allowed to carry a gun so that they then can go on rampages?

That's the glaring logic black hole in the anti self defense argument; that allowing people to carry is going to unleash illegal mayhem that is, oddly enough, kept under wraps now because not only is it illegal to assault people, but, damn it all, you're not even allowed to carry a gun so that you can illegally assault people.

The wolves are out there. The more shepherds, the better.

 

[AK-74me]

But Bru, you have a choice. We do not.

BTW, I find the stances you are starting to take ironic considering your signature.

 

[Xaquin44]

...say that, but, what's it based on? Some notion that there are all these crazy, irresponsible people out there, totally behaving themselves, somehow, and just waiting, patiently, to be allowed to carry a gun so that they then can go on rampages?

no, I was saying just because a person who is a crimnial hasn't been arrested yet, doesn't mean he/she should be able to carry a gun wherever.

heck a guy I used to live next to used to get messed up on every drug imaginable and drive around and occasionally shoot mailboxes.

clean record and could buy as many guns as he wanted.

I'd hate for him to be able to carry a gun around because the way he is, someone would very likely be hurt.

anecdotal evidence of course, but then again, so is everyone elses.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah...

Yes, it is cool to think about another Ruby's Cafeteria situation... where a gunman comes in and starts shooting while you with your concealed pistol get up and quickly dispatch the evildoer to the accolades of the survivors. But that fantasy is about as realistic as shooting that winning basket at the buzzer or throwing the last second pass to win the Super Bowl. You stand a better chance at winning the lottery, so I think folks should ask themselves if they are really worried about the risk to their safety or are they just wanting to carry to be cool, or look tough, or empower themselves, etc.

...and by that logic lottery tickets should be illegal. Yet, people win every stinking day, some big. People use a firearm to defend themselves, depending on whose stats you like, 1,000's of times a year to as much 100's of 1,000's and that never counts how many times or places a crime is simply never committed or even contemplated because conceal carry is the law of the land.

What is not arguable is that there is a great number of assaults that happen every year. What is not arguable, to me, is that there will be less if we recognize the right to self defense that is inherent in the right to life.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

Most of these folks have been the victims of assaults and have a more realsitic view of how things go down in these situations. They understand that in a life or death confrontation with a robber or mugger, the first instinct will be to break away from the attacker and get clear, not stand there like Dirty Harry.

To me, these are the folks I don't want carrying guns.
Think about it. If that person who gets a CCW after being the victim of a violent crime had one in the first place, there would be no issue. There would simply be a headline similar to, "Unidentified Man Shot During Robbery and Attempted Assault of 25 Year Old Woman."

Think about this also; if you and your significant other were out for your evening stoll, both carrying your cell phones; and four muggers jumped you; what would you rather have? Those two cell phones or a gun?

"A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone."
I'm tellin' ya......

 

[Ken King]

no, I was saying just because a person who is a crimnial hasn't been arrested yet, doesn't mean he/she should be able to carry a gun wherever.

heck a guy I used to live next to used to get messed up on every drug imaginable and drive around and occasionally shoot mailboxes.

clean record and could buy as many guns as he wanted.

I'd hate for him to be able to carry a gun around because the way he is, someone would very likely be hurt.

anecdotal evidence of course, but then again, so is everyone elses.

Seems like he was already carrying regardless of the law, like non-lawabiding persons do.

 

[Xaquin44]

Seems like he was already carrying regardless of the law, like non-lawabiding persons do.

so the solution is to make it ok for him to do that?