uh oh... Roy Dyson's Bill

[vraiblonde]

you would think they would take even greater care in making sure their kids are doing the right thing.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Anyway, 95% of our laws are "parenting" laws, whether aimed at teens or adults. What do you think a seatbelt law is? What about gun laws? And drug and alcohol laws?

And while we're at it, what do you think of speed limits? Aren't those merely "parenting" laws? If I'm a safe driver at high speeds, why should I have to obey some law that was designed for people who aren't?

 

[vraiblonde]

How about those laws that say that parents must have babies in car seats?

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Anyway, 95% of our laws are "parenting" laws, whether aimed at teens or adults. What do you think a seatbelt law is? What about gun laws? And drug and alcohol laws?

And while we're at it, what do you think of speed limits? Aren't those merely "parenting" laws? If I'm a safe driver at high speeds, why should I have to obey some law that was designed for people who aren't?

No, they have taken a more scientific approach to laws such as seat belts and speed limits.. Saying you have x amount of reaction time at y speed on road z.. A law to limit the number of people in a car for a certain age group is just ridiculous.. Would you have to go along with the airlines and say that really fat people count as 2? After all, a car full of fat people will be a lot harder to slow down when compared to driving by yourself, thus increasing the chance for an accident.. Maybe we should have a law about that.. Be like an elevator, list the passenger number max, as well as a weight max for the vehicle..

 

[vraiblonde]

No, they have taken a more scientific approach to laws such as seat belts and speed limits

So you're saying that Roy Dyson just pulled this proposed law out of his...thin air with no regard to teen accident statistics, is that right?

list the passenger number max, as well as a weight max for the vehicle..

Ommm...duh! They already have that. Check your owner's manual.

 

[Ken King]

Why has Dyson decided to sponsor this law? It’s simple, he is tired of seeing so many kids die on our streets. Driving fatalities for the 15 to 20 year age group well exceeds those for firearm related fatalities and we have many laws relating to who can and cannot have a gun and how the weapons must be controlled to keep them out of the hands of children. Many, like Smcdem see nothing wrong with that at all. Why because those laws are meant to save lives.

At issue is what happens when a youth gets into a car with numerous friends and how much attention that driver is paying to driving versus interacting with their buddies. It is obvious to me that a car load of kids is more likely to have horseplay occurring then a car with only a teen driver. Even one friend might not be much of a problem but it can still be a distraction. This is where the balancing starts as the legislators know they would be strung up if they simply banned driving for anyone under 18 years of age (which would probably be the safest thing to do).

Every year throughout the state many kids are killed in automobile accidents with passenger interaction as a causal factor. Should this be ignored and the death tolls allowed to climb? Or should an attempt be made to check this growing devastation? Simply raising the drinking age to 21 has reduced the number of alcohol related fatalities in the 15 to 20 age group by 13%. Will this law do the same? I don’t know, but if it saves one life isn’t that enough (especially if that one saved is your kid)?

For those that see this as unfair, I say get over it. As driving is a privilege, the state can and does determine the applicable laws. They see this as a means of saving lives and I don’t know about you but I am for that.

If you want to see some eye opening data on younger drivers check out http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2001/2001youngdr.pdf

 

[SmallTown]

You also increase the chances for accidents by increasing the number of vehicles on the road.. If you take the teens out of carpooling, you are putting even more so called "unsafe" drivers on the road.. Now THAT makes a lot of sence.

And then you have the single mom who gets put in the hospital. Her kids of course want to go see her, but they can't because only say 1 can ride with the teen driver? Nice..

And I know groups ride to church together for sunday school service..

There are just so many more "good" reasons that teens carpool than bad ones..

 

[vraiblonde]

Small, you can't be serious.

#1, if the single Mom is in the hospital, who's watching her kids? And why can't they catch a ride with them to go see Mom? Or are you trying to say that some Mom would go into the hospital and leave her multiple children completely unsupervised?

#2, are you trying to tell me that kids that go to church don't drive recklessly? *guffaw*

#3, the majority of teen "carpoolers" are like SMC or my daughter, who don't drive and catch a ride with a driving friend to school, play practice, meetings, whatever. If teens didn't carpool, there would be parents (remember them?) driving the kids around instead of other teens. Of course then we'd have all those maniac soccer Moms out on the roads causing mayhem.

#4, AGAIN we aren't talking about limiting the passengers for some 18 year old kid - I think 17 should be the limit for driving restrictions OR whenever the kid graduates from high school, whichever comes first.

 

[vraiblonde]

Also, this has nothing to do with where they're driving or why they're driving. Going to church, going to Taco Bell - what's the difference? Kids horse around and forget to be careful. They also don't spend a lot of time thinking about the consequences of their actions. You said you were a teacher so I know you know this.

 

[Ken King]

It would be nice to see the proposed legislation to read what it entails. So far in this thread there is no information as to what the bill contains. Maybe the person that started the thread will “tell us all about it” or at least cite a bill number.

The measure Roy put forward last year, that was killed (pun intended) in the Judicial Committee, placed a 180 day restriction on newly licensed teen drivers from transporting non-family member passengers. Read his 3/25/2002 newsletter at http://www.somd.com/news/dyson/articles/132.shtml

 

[Heretic]

Just curious to those that think its so important for teens to carpool, what happens if the only one that has a car or a liscense is sick? Do all the others just not go to school? The thing is that I just dont buy this as a reason to defeat the bill. I don't believe in the bill but I do believe in looking at things truthfully.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Ken King
Read his 3/25/2002 newsletter at http://www.somd.com/news/dyson/articles/132.shtml

Well, there ya have it. SMC, I know it sucks to be held to the same standard that less responsible people your age are. Try being 39 and having the same problem.

What I don't understand is why they killed the bill? The statistics are there, the bill makes perfect sense - what's the problem?

Do all the others just not go to school?

 

[SmallTown]

Days after the Judicial Proceedings Committee killed this life-saving bill, two teens who attend Henry E. Lackey High School in Charles County were killed due to driver inexperience

Nothing about someone else in the car distracting the driver.

Days after the accident at Lackey, a Gaithersburg youth lost control of his car while drag racing with another youth. The passenger in the vehicle, driven by a 16-year-old teen who had just had his license for two months, was killed in the accident.


Well duh, drag racing.. Shouldn't be doing that! Nothing to do with the driver being distracted, but about the driver knowing exactly what he was doing.. And it was stupid. Instead of having the spirit of Earnhardt going through his veins, maybe the passenger would have gotten him to stop.

This is common sense legislation. If you don’t think so, just take a moment to observe teen drivers getting into a car with their peers and watch as the driver pulls away. Every time I do this, I notice that they immediately start either fiddling with their compact disc player, talking on their cell phones or looking at their fellow passengers either beside them -- or worse talking to their friends in the backseat.


I see just as many adults doing that.. Then you have adults fiddling with the cigarette lighter, putting on makeup, eating their bacon egg and cheese biscuit..

Seems like everything you talk about points at the experience of the driver, not distractions from people within the car. so three things we learn from this:
1) Parent should know who their kids are riding with.. If you don't know or trust them, then don't let your child ride with them.
2) Same as #1, but if you don't trust your child to drive others, forbid it.
3) a Passenger's life is more important than the driver.. We care about the passengers being hurt, but nothing about just the driver.. Right up there with a pro-lifer being pro-death penalty.. if there is a concern about the person's driving ability, they shouldn't be driving anyone around, including themselves!! Again, parents need to take care of it..

So, everything I read in the article really is useless.. And lets talk about enforcement.. Can you easily tell the difference between a 17 and an 18 year old?? Are cops so bored they have the time to pull over these people to check their age if they are car pooling? And like you said, after the have an accident and kill people, it is too late..

 

[smcdem]

GO buckeyes... haha
If you adults make laws that affect 16 year olds. Than allow 16 year olds to vote.

 

[Kizzy]

I think the vast majority of the increase in automobile accidents involving young drivers has to do with the FACT that driver’s education has been removed from most high school curriculums. Now, a teen wishing to get their license must go to a driving school. I think this is a huge conflict of interest. Does the driving school really care about providing safe drivers on the road or more about their cash flow? I just think that if the state wants safe drivers we should educate them in school.

My hubby and I totally disagree on this issue. He believes that the driving age should be raised to 18 and he says neither of our children will get a license till they are 18. I totally disagree. I got my driver’s license at 16 (so did he) and my father put the fear of GOD in me. He made firm rules on the use of the car to despite the fact I was paying the insurance on the vehicle. I was not allowed to have passengers in the vehicle unless I asked my parents first, no drinking and they were to know where I was at all times. I thought my parents were unreasonable at the time, but now, I understand why. You would think with all the friends and loved ones I have had scraped off the road and taken away by the body snatchers, I would feel differently. But, I don't. I still think allowing a teen to get a driver’s license at 16 should be the choice of a parent. There isn’t anyone forcing a parent to take their teen to the DMV and get a license on their 16th Birthday. Parents can and should say "NO" if they don't feel thier son/daughter isn't ready yet.

As far as the two teens killed from Lackey, what they fail to mention is that they were jumping a hill. AND, if I remember correctly, the driver only had a learner’s permit and nobody else in the car was eligible to supervise an individual on a learner’s permit. There are always going to be those who break laws regardless of the driving age and those who break laws shouldn’t be clumped in with the reality of the situation. I have no problem with the 180 days Roy Dyson is asking for. I will agree that passengers in a vehicle can be distracting to an inexperienced driver. But think about this

Also, according to the NHSHA, 16-year old drivers have crash rates three times greater than 17-year-olds, five times greater than 18-year-olds and twice of those who are 85 or over.

If we change the age, we only bump these numbers up a year. Experience means a lot and I beleive the decrease is due to greater experience as a driver gets more time behind the wheel.

Are cops so bored they have the time to pull over these people to check their age if they are car pooling?

Just as long as they don't forget to give them a
brochure on racial profile and how to make a complaint if they would like to make one.

 

[Heretic]

Originally posted by smcdem
GO buckeyes... haha
If you adults make laws that affect 16 year olds. Than allow 16 year olds to vote.

Laws are made concerning 5 year olds too. As you get older you will find out that you don't have alot of say in what happens arround you, get use to it. I don't get to vote on anything I do at work (just like you dont at school) and neither does just about anyone else. Heck even the elected officials that get to vote (like the school board) are bound by rules that they dont get to vote on.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by smcdem
GO buckeyes... haha
If you adults make laws that affect 16 year olds. Than allow 16 year olds to vote.

From the tidbits in that old Dyson newsletter the proposal sounded okay and seemed to be a common sense approach to curbing "party barges". Please cite the bill you are referring to when you started this thread? I want to find out more about this, but all we have is speculation concerning a new bill. At this point I don't know if one even exists or is it that you are worried that Dyson might re-introduce it this next session?

 

[Heretic]

The way I read that bill it just places a restriction on you for the first 6 months that you have your drivers liscense. Hell I think that should apply to adults too.

 

[Ken King]

a Passenger's life is more important than the driver.. We care about the passengers being hurt, but nothing about just the driver..

I didn’t get that from any of this, did anyone else? It seems that the concern is for how a young person, inexperienced at driving, might not be providing their fullest attention to that task if they have other young non-family members as passengers distracting them.

Based on what you have posted, I guess that you have never experienced “peer pressure” to do anything that you normally wouldn’t have done if left to your own devices or have never observed this behavior from others. I’ve seen it, and while I have no data to support this thought, I believe that it is more likely to take place amongst younger folk.

Heretic,

Agreed, maybe if it was applicable to all new drivers it could make it past the Judicial Committee. After all, an inexperienced driver is an inexperienced driver regardless of age.

I wonder if the DOT has any statistics for fatal accidents based on the amount of time the driver has held a license.

 

[vraiblonde]

SMC, doesn't it ever occur to you that we're about a hair's breadth away from being totally government controlled and none of us having any rights whatsoever?

I'm reading about eminent domain cases right now. You think having a limit on the number of people you can transport as a teenager is bad? You think not being able to vote at 16 is bad? Try having your home or land taken by the government because some developer greased a few palms.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Ken King
I didn’t get that from any of this, did anyone else? It seems that the concern is for how a young person, inexperienced at driving, might not be providing their fullest attention to that task if they have other young non-family members as passengers distracting them.

what if the other people in the car are mutes?

The point being, if they (the government or parents) feel they aren't capable to drive, they shouldn't.. By themselves or with other people.

As far as peer pressure being involved, if someone in the car is trying to get you to do something stupid (like drag race or jump hills) you have two choices.. Not do it and don't worry about it, or do it and may the consequence of wrapping your car around a tree.. Darwin wasn't so dumb after all, the weak weeding themselves out seems to work just fine.. You know, God did give us one incredible invention.. Free will.. The ability to make choices.. Though not fully refined, you have this from the day you are born.